Prsist Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 So the Asian 21j movement is junk. When it dies it is cheaper to buy a new watch -or- By a new 21j movt and if you you have the knowledge and skill swap the mov't -or- have a watchsmith (if you can find one) swap the movement. The ETA movt (if real) is serviceable as is the ETA clone. You just need to find a watchsmith who will perform the repairs and source the parts. I'd love to use my 21j SD as a learning tool once I get the WM9 SD. Love to learn the hobby but at what cost? Who is to say I can learn to do the necessary repairs, and at what cost? To acquire the tools needed I might be better suited just to buy a new watch. I like to keep my watches forever and finding a local watchsmith who is competent and will service my reps seems to be difficult. Makes me question really delving into this hobby all the way. Any info is much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 You're asking all the right questions. Many have had good success with the 21J movement...I've had so-so success. A basic movement swap setup would probably be: - Rodico - Decent screwdrivers - Caseback tools or duct tape or rubber ball - Springbar tool - Hand removal tool - Hand setting tool - #2 tweezers (non-magnetic) - Dial protector - Watch paper or lint free paper People have been creative with some of the tools using things like sticky notes and tooth picks to replace the dial protectors and hand setting tools...and duct tape balls instead of caseback tools...so you can save money there. If you're looking for local service...popping by to small shops and seeing if they service ETA movements might be a discussion point...and then seeing if they will service them inside of a replica watch. You will get turned down by some who believe reps are evil...but you should find somebody eventually. You will make mistakes...lose screws, bend arms, scratch/dirty dials...that's part of the learning process. If so...then your rep experience might be limited to non-chrono movements if that's what you feel comfortable with...or you can mail your watches to some of the repair folks here. Good luck!! You can buy expensive or cheap. Most experienced folks will say cheap tools will only make learning frustrating...and that's quite true...so don't go too cheap!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prsist Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Thank you sir! Would I be prudent to purchase 2 movements? One for the swap and the other for parts? I could steal parts from the original movt but not knowing why the watch failed it might be a gamble. I know of varies sites that sell tools, I guess I could also speak with local watchsmithsand there is always the bay. Timezone has tutorial for watch servicing and repair, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 ... So the Asian 21j movement is junk. ... Not necessarily. Maybe I am the exception but, I have had at least a half-dozen 21j's with no issues. In fact, after regulating, most of my 21j's are within a few seconds per day. -Ronin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 My experience as well. Main problem with the cheap Asian movements is finding replacement parts, which is just about impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 So the Asian 21j movement is junk. NO, NO, NO! It is most certainly not junk! the A21J in all but it's cheapest and crappyiest form is a damn good reliable MVT. It can be ajusted in most cases to keep COSOC time, it's tough as nails and dirt cheap. What more could you want? My "Touture Test Noob" is nearly thru it's year of continues wear in which it has been subjected to everything from full bore rifle shooting to jack hammering whilst being worn. It's been worn while using sanders and chain saws etc so HF vibrations don't phase it either. It's got covered in spraypaint and washed off with thinners, it's been drowned, roasted (forgot to take it off when attending a house fire), droped and abused in every way I can think of and still keeps time to within 10 sec a day. It's power reserve is low but I suspect nothing a clean and ajust wouldn't fix. It must be very dirty in there by now. In a few weeks we will find out when it gets pulled appart at the end of it's year on my wrist. Yes, TZ do an exelent course in watch making. Fifty bucks plus whatever tools you buy and an ETA MVT that you can pick up for sixty USD or so. The email help available from your instructor alone is worth much more than the price of the course. Some sources for tools are listed below. zantechinc www.nationaljewelerssupplies.com Otto Frei Jules Borel And in the UK Cousins The last three will also have MVTs available. DO NOT email Otto with questions. He is rather hard to deal with unless you know exactly what you want. If you need any further help PM me. Regards, Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen001 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Actually ,more of the Asian 21J quality are improved now . There are some grade of it in the market . Just need to learn some more infomation of the movement , most of the problems can be fixed yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prsist Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I just meant that once the movement dies it is a throw away. That is what I have read here on the forum. I assume How To's are available by using the search button? How to regulate, etc...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prsist Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 You wouldn't know if TZ frowns upon reps? I guess you just mention I'm working on a Asain 21j mov't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailboss Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Mention the MVT shure but FFS DON'T mention it's in a rep! All sorts of hell will break lose. Tell 'em somthing like it's in a cheap no name CN gen that belongs to your young brother or some such. Ya, a 21J ain't worth repairing. A new one should set you back under twenty bucks. Once you have a few stuffed ones and some skill you may want to do simple repairs since you will have parts from others but it's realy not worth the effort. They are definiatly worth regulating tho. You may be surprised just how accurate they can be. Regards, Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 "So the Asian 21j movement is junk. When it dies it is cheaper to buy a new watch -or- By a new 21j movt and if you you have the knowledge and skill swap the mov't -or- have a watchsmith (if you can find one) swap the movement." Most Asian 21 jewel movements are not junk at all (imho), what gives this impression is poor factory QC or careless storage and handling before and during being installed in the watch. I have had my share of trouble with them but it seems they are getting better (probably better QC) and I have a few that keep time within 10 or 15 seconds per day. Another thing that causes them to be considered "junk" is their low price. Years ago when Eta 2824 were $45 they were not considered to be very hot either...now that they are $150+...they are the greatest. http://www.pmwf.com/Watches/WatchTools/Gen...reMovements.htm Citizen/Miyota 8215 and Eta 2824 comparo: http://www.17jewel.com/two.html If I was going to practice watch repair, I would buy a couple cheap manual wind watches first and work up to automatics, then automatics with date. A Shild and Eta manual winds are good to learn on. I will say the Miyota 8215 clones are hard to work on compared to an Eta 2824 etc or Sea-Gull ST6 or ST16. The ST6 is made in the traditional manner with the automatic assembly screwed to the movement like an Eta 2824 and the ST16 is similar in appearance to the harder to work on Miyota 8215 clones (CH/DG 2813, 4813 etc) with the auto winding reverser etc under the main plate. The calendar works on the ST6 are easier to work on than any of the Miyota clones including the ST16. The ST16 is made like a Miyota clone but has a Seiko "magic lever" type winding system that is not buried in the movement like a Miyota clone making it easier to work on. swiss made? The ST16 is modified by a few swiss brands and then claimed to be "swiss made" and renamed Claro-Semag CL888...Zodiac for instance. Sometimes a watch company outright lies about it and gets busted: http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=144328 http://forums.watchuseek.com/archive/index.php/t-144328.html More stuff: http://www.tractionink.com/watch_wiki/inde...title=Main_Page http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=144328 http://www.tractionink.com/watch_wiki/inde...Tianjin_Seagull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Great reply Automatico!!! Thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakemaster Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) So the Asian 21j movement is junk. Where did you come up with that? Edited March 4, 2009 by fakemaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prsist Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Where did you come up with that? I think my wording was a little strong. Just read a lot of posts recommending to discard their 21j once it dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Asian 21J movements are definitely NOT junk. Where did you hear that? Yes, they're cheap and there are more defect A21J's than ETAs because there is virtually ZERO QC. If you get a decent A21J which initially keeps good time, it can last 10+ years. I've heard many such stories. According to Ziggy they're usually even properly oiled, straight out of factory. Don't diss A21J. And even if it craps out, you can buy a new movement for pocket money. It makes no sense to service such cheap movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 asia 21J is an excellent movement (if you dont mind the slow beat ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prsist Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Asian 21J movements are definitely NOT junk. Where did you hear that? Yes, they're cheap and there are more defect A21J's than ETAs because there is virtually ZERO QC. If you get a decent A21J which initially keeps good time, it can last 10+ years. I've heard many such stories. According to The Zigmeister they're usually even properly oiled, straight out of factory. Don't diss A21J. And even if it craps out, you can buy a new movement for pocket money. It makes no sense to service such cheap movement. I'm too new and inexperienced to diss the 21j. Just reiterating what I've read. The thought of doing a movement swap scares the bejesus outta me. No better place for info than right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I just need to know where to put the battery Be nice Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Asian 21J movements are definitely NOT junk. Where did you hear that? Yes, they're cheap and there are more defect A21J's than ETAs because there is virtually ZERO QC. If you get a decent A21J which initially keeps good time, it can last 10+ years. I've heard many such stories. According to The Zigmeister they're usually even properly oiled, straight out of factory. Don't diss A21J. And even if it craps out, you can buy a new movement for pocket money. It makes no sense to service such cheap movement. Ditto ! And I add that they are the perfect engine for what is, and always will be,..a Replica watch. Especially so in a difficult economy, where waste is simply a lack of foresight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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