swiss customs took my watch and they want me to pay a fine

[simzger]

hello,

i was sent an iwc 3717 from TT and it got took by customs.

now the swiss customs sent me a letter and said i need to pay 60 bucks.

they say since it was just one watch, they will not inform the brand owner (iwc).

they say i was importing that stuff.

now i think they cannot prove that i imported anything. should i just tell them that i don't know what they're talking about?

thanks for your opinion,

simzger

[iwan67]

I think swiss customs are not the best customs to deal with, as they know exactly all the brands and all the rules.

If they are saying just to pay 60 bucks, it sounds VERY fair to me, as they could also confiscate the watch, or even

charge you penalties and open a case for that. So i think if they write like this, it's quite fair, and i would not argue with them.

Thats my humble opinion.

hello,

i was sent an iwc 3717 from TT and it got took by customs.

now the swiss customs sent me a letter and said i need to pay 60 bucks.

they say since it was just one watch, they will not inform the brand owner (iwc).

they say i was importing that stuff.

now i think they cannot prove that i imported anything. should i just tell them that i don't know what they're talking about?

thanks for your opinion,

simzger

[Agrippa]

Presumably the $60 is on top of having the watch confiscated. As the OP says there's no way they can prove that the watch is not in fact an unsolicited gift or something of that sort, but the question is if $60 isn't quite a reasonable price for avoiding all the bother that's bound to come with denying guilt. Letters to and fro, possibly having to appear at an interview and whatnot. Depends how valuable your time and energy is I guess.

[steppen]

deny deny deny,

tell them you didnt order it, you have no idea of why it was sent to you.

trust me, this is the best course of action

[lanikai]

Yikes ....

the question is by paying the fine is that admisssion of guilt.. of knowingly purchasing a rep ??

sounds like it to me..

I can't tell "you" what to do.. but when I have recieved letters from Customs.. (although SWISS Customs.. is it's own entity)

I have never replied in any way shape or forum.. unless they can trace your payment to the sender..

in the future it may be well to try and order from within EU.. or is Switzerland Neutral and not apart of EU.. thus Customs has jurisdiction over anything entering the Country ??

A~C

Lani

[simzger]

I think swiss customs are not the best customs to deal with, as they know exactly all the brands and all the rules.

If they are saying just to pay 60 bucks, it sounds VERY fair to me, as they could also confiscate the watch, or even

charge you penalties and open a case for that. So i think if they write like this, it's quite fair, and i would not argue with them.

Thats my humble opinion.

thanks for the reply.

however, 60 bucks is if they confiscate and destroy it.

if i don't agree with that, they will tell iwc which then can decide whether they wanna open a case for me.

i think however they are not gonna do that for 1 watch.

simon

Edited May 24, 2009 by simzger

[Agrippa]

Switzerland is indeed not part of the EU, so ordering from the EU would likely have little positive effect. Normally I'd agree that simply not responding is the best course of action, but in regards to Swiss customs I don't know. They have more and wider powers than any other customs bureau in Europe, so what goes here doesn't necessarily go there.

[simzger]

deny deny deny,

tell them you didnt order it, you have no idea of why it was sent to you.

trust me, this is the best course of action

so it has happened to you before?

i already drafted a denying-letter that i may send to customs. will nothing happen after that?

cuz they wrote if i agree to the destroying and 60 bucks paying, i have to sign the paper within 30 days.

they write if i don't answer by signing the destroying-agreement within 30 days they will inform iwc.

hmmm......so should i do nothing and wait for iwc?

cheers!

[spooky driver]

Are you sure it is not a VAT bill?

BTW...Switzerland introduced a value added tax system in 1995. Basically, the Swiss VAT system is in line with the 6th Directive of the European Union (although Switzerland is not a member of the European Union).

[simzger]

Are you sure it is not a VAT bill?

BTW...Switzerland introduced a value added tax system in 1995. Basically, the Swiss VAT system is in line with the 6th Directive of the European Union (although Switzerland is not a member of the European Union).

no it is not a VAT bill. in the letter, customs claim i have imported a couterfeit watch.

Edited May 24, 2009 by simzger

[simzger]

Switzerland is indeed not part of the EU, so ordering from the EU would likely have little positive effect. Normally I'd agree that simply not responding is the best course of action, but in regards to Swiss customs I don't know. They have more and wider powers than any other customs bureau in Europe, so what goes here doesn't necessarily go there.

well....the question is that if iwc decides to open a case....how do they prove that someone actually ordered something? by checking his CC bills? no way...we still have banking secrecy in switzerland...

by hacking into the person's email account? i don't think so. they have not enough proof to get anything out is my guess.

[Agrippa]

Being in Switzerland, the way I see it you choices are these:

1. Pay the fine. It's just a fine, or a slap on the wrist if you like and you "crime" won't be recorded anywhere for posterity. That's it, you're done with the whole thing and it'll never resurface in the future.

2. Deny/stay silent. It might work, but you have no idea. Again, elsewhere this would be your preferred option, but we're talking of Switzerland here, where importing replicas is comparable to attempting to assassinate the Pope if you're living in Italy. They MIGHT not bother with you at all, but they may also decide to take you through all the crap they can muster. There's simply no way of knowing. If IWC decide to pursue the matter (quite unlikely, but possible), your "crime" will be recorded for posterity regardless of the outcome.

[Agrippa]

we still have banking secrecy in switzerland

Actually you don't. It's a while since your government agreed to give out account information in criminal cases and the like.

[simzger]

Actually you don't. It's a while since your government agreed to give out account information in criminal cases and the like.

hmmm....yes but only if there is a shitload of evidence that a very very severe crime was committed.

[Agrippa]

True enough. I guess importing a replica makes a rather weak case for linking you with Al Queda, Taliban or the Sicilian mafia.

[kbh]

I'm kinda thinking if I lived in Switzerland (The watchmaking capital of the world), I wouldn't be flaunting reps in the noses of Swiss Customs Officers.

[hooky]

don't do anything. don't react to them. Unless they give you a fine and then you can deny.

And let the replacement being shipped to another address.

[mikellem]

don't do anything. don't react to them. Unless they give you a fine and then you can deny.

And let the replacement being shipped to another address.

I agree...

MM

[Stephane]

deny deny deny,

tell them you didnt order it, you have no idea of why it was sent to you.

trust me, this is the best course of action

+100 here

Never recognize you order fake stuff...

Swiss is not different from the rest of the world.

If you deny they will have to prove you are guilty and of course they have bigger fishes to look for.

If you accept the fine you will admit you are guilty.

[georgegrasser]

The Swiss government should be the last people to tell others of right and wrong. They want $60? Tell them to dip into their Nazi Gold reserve. Any name on that letter? Pray for the death of the customs official. God answers all prayers.

[kramerica2]

Tell them, you don't know what they're talking about, and maybe its a gift from someone you've met in your trip to Thailand/HK/Whatever this watch came from.

Unless the seller put the receipt in the package, they can't prove anything else.

[trailboss]

Was the letter adressed to you? Was it registered? Never sign for any letter unless you are expecting something important! If they want your sig, it's gotta be bad. Depending on the post office rules there it is an idea to used a different name on any pkg as well. Most POs will allow you to P/U mail if the addy on your ID matches the mailing addy. The deny, deny , deny route is usualy best but in SU I realy don't know. The fact they are dangling a promise of not giving you up to IWC tends to tell me that they are on thin ice here. Why make promises like that if they are on firm ground? If it was cut and dried they would just say "You owe us, pay up." Is there a free law advice service in SU? Ask them for guidence if there is as Swiss law is wierd and tough.

Also, move countries

Good luck and regards, Col. (who thanks his lucky stars he does not live in an EU police state or SU).

[Velasco]

This is only an opinion... but from my point of view, paying the fine would demonstrate with legal documents that you tried to import counterfeit goods.

And that record will be there for the rest of your life.

Good luck.

[automatico]

Pros and Cons:

Pro = for

Con = against

As long as you do not pick the watch up, you have denial as a recourse depending on what you decide to do after weighing all the Pros and Cons...payment method, addressee etc.

Pro/Con ratio 50/50.

I agree that denial is a good defense but it depends on method of payment and who payment was made to if they decide to dig deeper.

Pro/Con ratio 50/50.

Chances are they are too busy to follow up if you deny you ordered the watch.

Pro/Con ratio 50/50.

Their problem is they have to prove you intended to buy a replica watch with the payment.

If payment was made to an unknown individual, you are probably Ok. If payment was made to a known replica dealer/website...not so good.

I doubt they would dig into your email (no way of knowing until it happens), but tracing an overseas payment is relatively easy.

Pro/Con ratio 50/50.

If you totally ignore the notice, there is no telling what they will do. Maybe nothing.

Pro/Con ratio 25/75.

Paying the fine means "I did it!" and my guess is their records are permanent.

This makes them the Pro.

...and you the Con.

Pro = professional

Con = convict

Think it all over before doing anything, but payment method and addressee can have a major bearing on the outcome if they get nasty.

If you used Western Union for payment, you are probably Ok.

Bank transfer is pretty good because the receiver's account is usually in a private individual's name.

Paypal will rat you out in a NYC minute.

Same with credit cards.

[gran]

The Swiss government should be the last people to tell others of right and wrong. They want $60? Tell them to dip into their Nazi Gold reserve. Any name on that letter? Pray for the death of the customs official. God answers all prayers.

How sad....and when was ever "The Swiss government" people