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No, that is BS, what I pointed out is basic psychology... I'm not saying that all gen owners are snobby elitist assholes, what I'm pointing out, is that those who have such a hatred for reps, are doing so because they feel threatened by it and the threat it represents to the value which they attribute to something. You say the guy driving the fiero is an idiot. Explain to me why he is an idiot. Does the fiero not get him from a to b? Is it not a valid form of transportation? To suggest that only genuine goods are acceptable, and that people who seek replica goods are idiots and losers, is the same as saying that the only way of appreciating art is to own the original painting, and that anything else, screen savers, posters, prints etc, are for losers. Or are they okay because they're licenced reproductions? I doubt daVinci gave anyone permission to re-print the Vetruvian Man or the Mona Lisa, but hey, plenty of people have copies of them world wide. But I guess they're just idiots too...

Interestingly, I frequent a Land Rover forum for my old Series 2A. On that site the trucks are 40-50 years old and by now most people have replaced their chassis. Many have installed newer engines, often from a different truck. Then there are the disc brake conversions, axle and differential conversions, you name it. I see the replacement part corollaries as: Chassis = case Engine = movement Bodywork = dial/hands Axles = bracelet Curiously none of this matters to them. It still looks like an old Land Rover even though everything has been upgraded. So it's okay. The "rivet counters" are the purists and doubtless they shudder at the upgrades. But 90% of the owners encourage it. Curious the acceptance of "reps" on that site, eh?

This article was written in 2008 & websites often vanish or move, so YOU may need to research some of the links --freddy333 So you're a Noob. Welcome aboard. You've just found yourself the coolest and most knowledgeable WATCH forum around. The members on this board are some of the saaviest watch afficianodos anywhere and are well versed in replica, gen, vintage and homage pieces, as well as gen and rep movements. There are oustanding writers, photographers, watchmakers and modders as well as up and coming members who have spent hours and days contributing oustanding pieces of information in the form of topic posts, reviews, galleries, tutorials and you name whatever other kind of information you would want. The questions you have as a Noob have probably been asked before...many times before...so many times that the asking of the question AGAIN annoys many of the more senior members so much that the only response you'll get to your query is: USE THE SEARCH FEATURE, NOOB! Many members on this board have helped me so much in the early stages of my rep journey asking for no more payment than to be a positive member of this board, that I felt I should put some effort into putting together a guide to help you enjoy and appreciate the rep world. I'll tell you now...you should use the Search feature located at the top right of the forum screen. You may not IMMEDIATELY find exactly what you want, but the odds are what you want is buried in the various topics that get returned. Do yourself a favour and read seemingly loosely related posts, because you will find nuggets of information that you will find useful, that you probably never thought of asking. Start by being general with your search (e.g. A7750) and then narrowing things down when you learn enough about the topic and need something very specific (e.g. 0.17mm hands a7750). Here's a step by step guide developed using the Search feature, and comprised of posts I have referred many Noobs to in answering their common questions: STEP 1 - Learn the Talk Don't know what we're talking about in the posts? Look here for definitions: Abbreviation wiki The Zigmeister's Glossary If you want your questions answered without getting flamed, learn Forum Etiquette first: Edge's Guide to Rep Forums Pt I Then, learn the basics about reps: Legality of Owning Replicas Best Sub Phoband's intro to collecting If you've got time... Awesome collection of watch info STEP 2 - Start to Crawl Which watch to buy?? Many people will tell you to pick the watch first...then the collector as some collectors can get things that others can't, although most can get the same merchandise as they all deal with the same factories. Read the brand forums...read the reviews and buying guides. By-Tor, Pugwash, Seadweller, Andreww, Chrgod, myself and a bunch of others have written lots of reviews of various pieces to help you find the best of the best. Selecting a collector to buy from is a tricky choice. There is no "best" collector as it depends on many factors: Where you are from - European buyers often pick European based collectors to avoid semi-frequent customs seizures Price - price variances between collectors after incorporating shipping can vary ~$0 - $120 (more for the big ticket items) Availability of a specific piece (some collectors have access to things others do not) How much you value instant communication (within hours vs. within days) Availability of certain modding being done out of the box Your level of patience in dealing with the inevitable quality control (QC) issues that will arise Where should you buy from?? Check the list below. RWG Member Trade Section RWG Recommended Collectors NOTE: Dealer links can be found in the subsections in the Collectors area or HERE RWG Want to Buy (WTB) Section Which dealer or member is the best?? Trade Reviews (Including Reviews of Collectors) If you need to ship to the EU...read this: Problems Shipping Reps From China into the EU If the collector/site you're interested is not listed below, use the Search feature to see if others have asked about the site already. Finding existing answers about a site/collector in question will yield you more info than asking a question that's been asked many times before. Try various spellings of a site (e.g. watcheden, watcheden.com, www.watcheden.com) to make sure it hasn't been asked already. If you can't find info about the site/collector you are interested in, check below: Ripoff List If you still haven't found info on the site/collector you are interested...use common sense. Buy from them if you want, but don't cry to us if you lose your money and don't get a watch, or get a watch that's a piece of crap that you feel you paid too much for. We have recommended collectors listed above for a reason. They may be more expensive than what you can find out there...but these collectors have been around for awhile, members here have had positive experiences from these ones, they supply decent product, and they will not rip you off. Don't forget to Search. Which watch??? That's a matter of personal preference...but you could search for reviews...or go here: Onzenuub's Rep Review Database You might want to read reviews of the movements before picking which rep to buy...some movements make great looking watches but reps with ticking-time-bomb lifespan: The Zigmeister's Movement Reviews Francisco's New and Improved Seconds at 6 Review Francisco's Seconds at 12 Review STEP 3 - You've pulled the trigger...you're waiting to walk You've made your first order...you're now sweating about if it will arrive...and EMS tracking...the wait...the drama...the horror...ooooh...the suspense. Yeah yeah yeah...we've all been there...so has everyone else: Lanikai's Excellent Post on Tracking Your Baby (applies mostly to CONUS...Canada is never an issue...other countries?? Use search.) A not so untypical shipping story Great play by play of waiting for a first order to arrive Aaaaah...my watch was Handed Over to Customs Aaaaah...I live in the EU and my watch was Handed Over to Customs...you may be screwed (contact your dealer for details on this scenario BEFORE ordering. I spent $500 USD and all that got shipped to me was a !@#&'ing TOY!! RWG dealer Recommendations suck. STEP 4 - You've got the watch...now what?? Congratulations!! You have yourself an amazing mechanical marvel...unless you bought a soul-less quartz cheapo (just kidding). Watches are delicate instruments and require careful handling and care. How do I get the most out of my new watch? By reading: The Zigmeister's Basics 101 - Getting the Most Out of Your New Watch The Zigmeister's User Guide for the A7750 If you've never had an automatic watch, you're probably wondering why your watch doesn't keep running after 2 days: My watch stops running...now what?? The Zigmeister's Mechanical Movement User Guide The Zigmeister's 's Care and Feeding Of Mechanical Movements Problems Accelerating Wear and Maintenance of A7750s Does my watch suck? It's loud...not like the gen. A7750 Power Reserve and Rotor Spinning Problems Noisy Rotor and Grease/Oil A7750 Spinning Rotor...is it a problem? If my watch sucks, should I get it repaired? Some say yes...some say no. If you got a cheapo $100 watch...likely the movement is a DG2813 that can be replaced for $12-$40 (for a DG4813) + labour at $50 for a movement swap. That's almost the cost of a new one. If you can do it yourself...it's definitely worth swapping. If you have a gen ETA movement...it should be able to be repaired by a rep friendly watchsmith and is worth doing so as the movement is very reliable. If you got a nice spanky A7750, it can be costly to replace the watch and the movement...so repair may be worthwhile...but expensive as these are complex movements that require great skill to repair. The cost of servicing may be close to the cost of a new watch, but a proper servicing will give you years of RELIABLE service. Many people say unserviced, they still get years of life out of their A7750s. The moral of the story for me is, if you want the watch to last for years, get it serviced. If you like the watch a lot...get it serviced. If it's fun but doesn't get a lot of wrist time, you like it, but you don't love it...sell it...and likely skip the servicing. If you will cry because the watch died prematurely...get it serviced. You can try swapping out your movement: Toad's Movement Swapping Guide - Redux or get a Free Watch instead My watch sort of sucks...I need it repaired: Repair is always the problem with reps. Good watchmakers/watchsmiths are hard to find. Finding one that can work on the extremely complex 7750 (gen or rep) movement is even harder. Finding one that can work on an A7750 is the hardest. Why should my new A7750 watch be serviced? It's new right? Sure it is: Why service your A7750?? How should a mechanical watch be serviced? Things to know about rep servicing The Zigmeister's Post on the British Horological Info on How Watches SHOULD be Serviced To find a rep friendly watchsmith or watchmaker try searching RWG. You can start by looking here: Advanced Search and plugging in "watchsmith" or "watchmaker " in a Titles Only search. Use The Zigmeister, where possible but read this post first Who is The Zigmeister and where do I find him? ...or Thomson Highway in Europe ...Francisco seems to do amazing work as seen in Francisco's Forum Subsection ...or Domenico seems to be getting good reviews (though I've never used him) - Domenico ...or the phone book or shopping mall repair folks My watch definitely sucks...I want to return it to China: Play the rep game long enough (or if you're unlucky, even your first rep), and you'll get a dud. Maybe it's a movement, maybe the wrong watch, maybe a crooked crystal, crooked hour marker, etc). If yours is DOA or has some issues: Search RWG to see if they are known issues Search RWG to see what other people have done about the issues If the issue is a warranty thing...contact your collector and seek resolution If no resolution found with the vendor, complain about it hereonly AFTER you have attempted resolution so others can be informed of your experience Ship it back to China for warranty repair/replacement How do I return my watch to China? Returning your watch to China STEP 5 - You're walking now...how do you keep things running? Odds are good if you bought a chrono, it has an A7750 movement: What A7750 do I have or should I buy? There are so many versions... The Zigmeister's User Guide for the7750 Movement Care and Feeding of A7750 Chronos - Setting the Date The Zigmeister's Explanation of why handwinding your A7750 is bad This watch is great. Can I take it swimming? Read here for water resistance testing: Reps and Waterproofness Pugwash's Water Resistance Testing Post Greasing Gaskets and 4' Pressure Testing What is Water Resistance? Water Resistance Testing Home Brew Pressure Tester STEP 6 - Walking to running Ok...you love your watch but want it just that little bit more accurate. What can you do? How To Adjust Timing or Beat Can anyone do mods on my watch? The Zigmeister's Post on Questions to Ask a Modder I want to take it to the next level and put a real Swiss Valjoux 7750 movement in my chrono...just like the gen? Swapping Swiss Rotors with Asian on 7750s Takashi's A7750 to Swiss Tutorial Ajoesmith's A7750 to Swiss Tutorial How do I do STUFF to my watch? Francisco's Amazing Tutorial Section RWG Knowledge Base You want improved AR? Chieftang AR. The King of AR!! You want lume? Do a search on "The Watchmeister" (pass through parameter links don't work anymore) NOTE: The Watchmeister is not a full-time watchsmith so his client list is essentially sort-of closed. What does this mean?? Read: Who is The Watchmeister and where do I find him? Everest Watchworks STEP 7 - Take a rest...you've come far grasshopper...you can now leave the Mountain You're enjoying your watch...now put back into the community that helped you so much. Post some pics...write a review...encourage other Noobs...etc Pugwash's Guide on How to Post Pics ...start working on your own watches RWG Links to Where to Buy Tools RWG Watch Repair and Upgrade Section Practice and memorize everything here: The Zigmeister's Technical Info Subsection The Zigmeister's Watchmaking Resource Centre STEP 8 - Be thankful for this amazing resource The information I've provided above is gold. I know you will find it useful. I've saved you months of time searching...and have helped you get up and running quickly and relatively painlessly. The info presented here is by no means comprehensive as the forum has TONNES more to offer. SEARCH. The info above is worth far more than a stack of watch mags, books, etc...so Upgrade Your Membership and stop being a freeloader. If you're so broke you can't afford the small amount to be a Supporter...maybe you shouldn't be buying watches. If you can't afford to support the forum financially...support it through content, buy raffle tickets, post topics, reviews, news...interesting stuff...and Upgrade your membership and support the forum Don't Forget the Upgrade is a Subscription

Hello all. ive been diligently working, back and forth with a factory, a designer and someone who truly knows their rolex history assisting me with the production, to bring you my truly affordable, very accurate 5514 case for the enthusiast builder in all of you! this is franken ready stuff! i present to you: built on a 5513 case size NOT a thick 1665 like the cartels do NO CG modification necessary NO lug hole drilling necessary fits 2mm bars genuine like construction 1:1 fits gen crystal fits gen insert flatter domed caseback than the MBKs better lug beveling than the MBKs higher crown posistion than the MBKs, fits ETA (comes with adapter ring) NO more crown imprint left on your wrist bezel is FIRM but SMOOTH turning, bezel sits level some MBKs DO NOT lugs engraved "5514" caseback inner engraved 5513 custom serial number, NO REPEATING numbers floating around, NO BLACKLISTED rep serials, NO 2 have to be the same accurate COMEX caseback engraving (only this 1 style currently) NO MORE "POLEX" between the lugs WORKING HE VALVE, thats right! gen like construction working HE VALVE, no more expensive retrofitting later! i dont want to say for certain, since i cant actually confirm this currently -but this may fit a Rolex cal movement as well, despite being designed for ETA. the crown tube on this prototype does not fit a gen crown it is too narrow, this will be corrected. in the future i will make these with out the tube installed but drilled and threaded ready to accept a gen or aftermarket 703 tube, or possibly with a high quality aftermarket 703 tube already installed, not sure yet. i also got my high quality print dials in (better than YUKIS), FEET FOR ETA NO MORE clipping and dealing with alignment issues. 5514 shown with a meters first 5513 dial (feet first is more appropriate but this was the first test dial i grabbed) i dont think i will be making marked COMEX dials at this point in time PICS: excuse the fingerprints and tape residue on the case back *please compare it with Jewelry and watch 's $1500 case and yukis out of stock $650+ 5514 with incorrect caseback and generic "198" engraving GEN for comparison: thanks for looking at my first test baby! have a nice weekend all.

Looks like a lot of fun.

"I doubt DaVinci gave anyone permission to re-print the Vetruvian Man or the Mona Lissa, but hey,plenty of people have copies of them world wide." Excellent point T. Peeps need to kick back and chillax. Mike

I can't speak for everyone here, but I wouldn't want the gen of any of the reps I own. Even if I could afford them (which at the moment I can't) I simply couldn't justify spending that kind of money on such an over-inflated product. As I've said before, several years ago I did have the cash to buy a gen Sub, so I went to the AD, tried it on, and was so underwhelmed, I walked out and immediately started researching fake Rolexes for a more reasonable option. In my opinion, and I admit that this is my opinion only, as nice as the Sub was, I did not think it was worth the £2000 price tag. Rep prices, on the other hand, are reasonable for the product, so that allows me to have the watches I like at a price point I am comfortable with, both financially and emotionally. As has been pointed out several times over the years, wealthy people (and by that I mean Old Money, not nouveau riche football yobs or rockstars) are frugal and do not spend their cash pointlessly. They get value for money and bang for the buck. So why is a person of lesser wealth who uses the same shopping principle considered an idiot and a wannabe? Sure, if a guy goes flashing his fake watch around and telling people it's the real thing, or tries to sell it on eBay as the real thing, then yes, that guy is an asshole and deserves to be treated as such, but that doesn't mean that all rep owners are that guy, just as not all gen owners are elitist snobs who only worship brandnames and prestige, while having the emotional content of an open sewer...

It's funny how people get so upset when they see a fake/rep of something they own! I remember many years ago having an Escort Xr3i at the time a big deal for a guy my age, it took me a long time to save up for it and I paid cash to get it, couple weeks of having it went by and a guy came along side me on the freeway with a 'fake' Xr3i (bodykit and badges only) how did it make me feel? Didn't bother me in the slightest, I bet he was just as proud of his car as I was mine, in fact it made me feel better because he was trying to emulate the same car that I had I'm making the comparison with cars because nanuq quite rightly gave a comparison of a car and watch, as a mechanic I can see how he would do so, the point I'm trying to make is that whether or not you wear a gen or fake watch does not mean that you are an [censored] or not, that comes from within and money or not your still an [censored]. I really don't think that Gen owners myself included are bothered whether the guy next to them is wearing a rep watch as long as they are not trying to make themselves look better to their peers or profiteer from it from someone who doesn't know any better. I came to this forum whilst searching for a great deal on a new SmP, tbh I'm bloody glad I've had the pleasure of being part of this community for the last 12-14 mths, I love lots and lots of watch designs and have probably bought the best part of 40-50 pieces since I came on here, inc a few Gens too. The rep scene is far more intricate than it seems from the outset, there is a depth to it that draws you in and this great community keeps you coming back for more! At the end of the day I am quite at ease wearing both Gen and rep pieces when I go anywhere, next time I'm out wearing my TC Sub and a guy stands next to me at the bar with his Gen and checks my wrist I'll give a wry smile and remember that day on the freeway..........

hi guys, im hoping to have these ready for an initial run mid Sept (ideally) i still have to test and evaluate this prototype before i go ahead. hopefully i can bring more exciting vintage stuff your way, beyond this 5514. i did not expect such a response to this, i was pursuing this for awhile as a true hobbyist. im hoping this 5514 is only moderately exciting once all my cards are laid out on the table this is bad timing on my part, i will be away with intermittent access for the next 10 days, so we might as well say im unavailable, so if i dont reply too often or at all please dont think this is abandoned. in retrospect i probably should have waited to return before sharing this, but i was too excited! cheers

Oh really?

My thought is there isn't really one or two archtype of rep owners. Sure there are d-bags who buys replicas of prestigous brands to show off, but then what is the difference between a d-bag who buys gens for that same purpose? On the other end of the scale, there are people who likes watches and appreciate what the replicate represents; and at rep prices can acquire a lot more than they otherwise would with gens. As for myself, it is hard for me to justify why I like the rep watches the way I do. I can go on about a brand's history and pedigree and how much I admire that company's history and horological innovactions, until I stop and tell myself what I am wearing does not represent any of them since they are fake. I sometimes refer my reps as "toys" instead of Panerai, Omega and Franck Muller because they are not Pams, etc. The answer I come to is that I simply like my watches as they are aesthetically pleasing to me, not for the brand, history, etc because then I am only lying to myself. As an aside, I also realize 6 months into this hobby, I spent close to 3,000 in straps, mods and watches. At this rate I could have gotten a used genuine in another 6 months! As for the OP's original question, my guess is that rep owners dislike rep owners for the simple fact rep owners acquire something they know is not genuine. Fair or not, this implies a certain degree of dishonesty. One can view acquiring reps and passing them off as gens is another "short cut" in life. Owning genuine watches suggests the owner had reached certain achievements in life and the very existence of replicas cheapens that sense of accomplishment. Just sharing my simple view of the world...

Thanks b I've had this one for about a year now I think, it only gets wrist time when I'm dressed up (which isn't that often)