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Lest we forget.

“Gregg is a quiet giant; he’s the kindest soul you’ll ever meet” -Derek Trucks, ABB

The open 6/9 datewheels were on the early 16610s and L serials came right after the R serial so your DW is original. The flat top 3s were only on the 1680/1665s, etc., watches with the 1575 Rolex movement.

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.... just a dream... Re-caved Cartel case, Viet dial by Tonny.

Before I just straight into the review i want to send a big shout out and thanks to andrew from Trusty Time for sponsering this review for you guys Here is a link to the watch so you can order without lots of pms asking where to get it http://www.ttw-138.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_7&products_id=17060&zenid=d4572ab07a04d7f4fbfb521a8015dc8e So let's jump into this so as soon as I saw a pic of this sub I was instantly drawn to it as I could see somethings that stood out above the rest.so did more digging and found a couple vids and was still impressed,but pics and vids are not the same as feeling and seeing the watch in hand ovbiously. So next thing you know me and dirk had 2 same samples delivered. The initial impressions i got when i unboxed the watch was the weight,it felt solid no rattle just rock solid.I i turned the bezel and did expect it to feel loose and sloppy for some reason lol.but to my surprise it felt solid with pretty much zero play about as much play as gen.the click is hard and loud ,but feels a bit more solid and stiffer click sound than gen.but solid nonetheless.it has the slight spring on the assembly when you push down on it like the gen due to the mushroom spring bearings here are a couple general pics of the watch head So as you can see from these 2 photos the crown guards and lugs are identical to gen in shape size and taper.oh and another thing both our samples had even cg .it's near impossible to get evenly sized cg from other factorys, you would normally need to go through 10 or more examples to get even cg. Anyway let's start to chat about the case It's great like I said the cg are flawless and so are the lugs.there is a movement cutout for the gen movement or clone screw.most reps don't have this.the v6s only had this I think.the polish and brushed steel is nice. The lugs where the model engravings are not finished correctly as it should be heavily brushed .the bp lugs walks seem kind of smooth.here take a look Here is where the issues start.as you guys can see a funny ridiculous mistake of the model number It should be 114060 not 1141060 and there should be a space between the word rolex and design,but bp missed that.it should be deeper engraved aswell.but this flaw is bad but at least it's hidden under the sel.and the rest of the case are aesthetic as hell. So the next feature on the case is the crown.it sucks end of.bp crowns have always been poor.the finish is off and I think there are too many fins or not enough on the crown,It just looks off,but I like the size of the crown and how far the crown pokes out past the cg.so the tube is in a nice position, adding abother crown would be ideal.also the logo is miles off take a look to see what I mean you can also see the nice cg from this angle,and the xtal height aswell.the xtal is a tiny bit too high.but can easily be lowered using a slimmer gasket.bit the height is not too bad and not a massive tell Next thing to talk about on the mid case is my favourite the rehaut engraving. As you guys know the gen rehaut engraving from 2010/2015 has nice deep double outlined rehaut engraving that is visable clearly in all light conditions.the engravings look black in low light. No factory has really been able to pull this off the closest was the noob v1 and the noob v3 But bp factorys taken the crown for the best engravings on the rehaut. only the no date from bp has this rehaut deep dark engraving.the finish on the rehaut Intel is rough i ain't going lie but imo a light polish will make it look even better Check this out So thats the lovely rehaut engraving So next we take a look at the xtal it's pretty clear as you would expect.could sit a tad lower though.there is a lec fully formed with no flaws using my loupe to look at it.I tried to capture a pic of the lec but I couldn't get it super clear,but you can see its there Now let's take a look at the insert and bezel assembly teeth shall we Ok so the inserts from the original bp 116610 and 114060 back a few years ago the font was perfect.then bp must of changed factory for the inserts or something because the font changed to being miles off.then recently bp improved the font again on this new range of ceramic subs that use the sa clone movement.the font is still not 100 but its improved.you can see for yourself what I mean. The insert is a bit too domed if you look from the side.the gen insert is flat almost, so not sure if a gen insert would go into the bp assembly.imo it won't fit.but the case is gen spec and can fit a bezel from another fact or a gen bezel so thats cool,take a look at a couple pics.the be sel teeth are not cut so they have that shine we expect like a gen.but no factory has ever got that yet you can see from the side pic The insert black colour looks great the insert font platinum is ok simular to what we have seen on other models lately But there is something I don't like about the insert that dirk told me.he said it was made from metal.I was laughing at him as that seemed impossible, because the ceramic finish is flawlessfeels and looks like anyother ceramic insert but he was right it's metal coated perhaps pvd in ceramic. So moving on to the spectacular dial .not really much to say other than its flawless.in layout and font.the markers look the correct thickness.the lume application is even aswell.The back of the dial is gold with all rolex marking like gen Take a look at the dial I've turned the watch on its side to show the perfect cg aswell .plus a wristy.you have all see the bp dial many times so didnt bother taking macros.dirk will do that in his review . The hands are pretty standard nothing really wrong with them,but could alway be improved to be thicker more shiny and more 3d.but again no factory has ever pulled off really flawless hands sets yet. So the bracelet next the bracelet feels amazing and comparable to my gen bb bracelet.nice and tight links feels heavy and solid.I've never felt a rep bracelet feel and sound so good.I tried to put the v6s bracelet on the bp but it was too loose using the v6s springbars and it didn't fit.so tried the bp bars with the v6s bracelet and it fitted but was flush But it didn't really matter as the bp bracelet on the bp case is great.not 100 percent perfect but its recessed on all sides.but the recession is everst slighty off.as it starts a little deep bear the bezel teeth and tapering to a more flush position near the lug tips.but it's resessed and looks like gen recession on the wrist or in pics. Only super close up and you are a sel expert can you see the sel taper is slighy off in the way it follows the lug line. Here is a few pics look at that rehaut engraving aswell The sel has zero gap whatsoever there is zero play,and the sel is sharp and recessed almost gen sel Oh I forgot to mention the serial numbers are all the same at the moment. The same serial number from my 4 year old original bp 116610 The clasp is nice but it has the polished inner blade that 2016/17 gens have so bp need to sort that out aswell.the flip lock logo us a massive improvement it's pretty much perfect The glidelock slides up and down nice and smoothy Here is a pic of the clasp The font is wrong on the inner clasp look at that r Love the clasp aesthetic just hate the polishing inside and the bad font text Here is a daylight lume shot of the dial sorry not a great pix but still.it's pretty good and even The movement is the sa3130 I ain't removed the back from the watch so no pics of movement but you can see all the crazy macro madness in dirks upcoming review There are only 2 positions winding and time set The movement winds well and the time setting works well. To people that dont know this is a clone of the gen no date movement. So you turn the crown clockwise the hands turn clockwise like gen .I've not really had time to test the gain or loss but its around 3 or 4 sec a day I think.so pretty good. So to wrap things up this watch is a great no date with a pretty perfect mid case and sel.I really do like it and it's definitely with buying to use as stock or to build an ultimate franken as its gen spec case to the max.so that's my thought on the bp factory 114060 .

Ha !!! I got that case to match a genuine WG case color, finally !!! The blue hue bright white color of steel was awful over the genuine lightly yellow tinted white gold dial. I tried and tried to find a workshop who'd accept to plate 18K white gold over steel for years !!!! Then I gave up, and turned to heat tiniting options. But professional ones ! The kind that offers a perfectly even color, and very lasting. Like plating. So I found a workshop that does blue steel hands. It was heated progressively in a special oven at 300° for 1:30 hrs. Before, the case was freshly repolished and very well cleaned in utrasounds and special chemicals as it should not have a single mark of grease or anything. It was on a bed of aluminum grains (sort of large powder) to ensure the heat spreads well. Then cooled in a chemical that settled the tint. Result is amazing !!! They told me it will be as resistant as a 5M plating which is good enough for me as it's an occasional watch. Look at the color besides the steel LV and the YG DD. It's right in the middle. Under some light it's yellow, under the next it's white ! Beautiful !!! Next will be a Noob DD 40 I just ordered since I now have a solution to the color issue !!! Parts were supplied by StoneP, engravings by Joe.

When I establish a good contact with the guy I'll pass along the info. This case was brought to me at work, one of my colleagues lives in Vietnam and picked this up for me. It's gone now to have the bars removed to be properly engraved. Once I get it back from engraving etc I'll post photos. Apparently my new dial and hands are waiting for me at home also from Vietnam, but a different fella. I'm hoping the quality is as good as the photos he sent lol Cheers ! C.

A couple of weeks ago I ran across a very nice 16610- the earliest model- an R serial. These came out in 1988 around the time the 16800 was ending- the last of the 16800s had an earlier R serial. Also, the 168000 was in production during that time with the new 904L case. But whereas the 168000 had the 3035 movement, same as the 16800, the 16610 had the new 3135 movement and the 904L steel case. This watch was priced fairly and in very nice condition. So I picked it up and have been very happy with it. This watch does have an aftermarket bezel insert- note the smaller pearl, but sooner or later I'll get around to putting a gen in there. I've even got a nice boxy 4 gen insert in my 16800 matte dial franken that I could use, but I'd rather try to find the earlier more triangular 4 insert that came on those subs from that period- Rolex used the same parts for the 16800/168000 and 16610 during the 1987-88 period- insert, bezel, dial, hands, crown and tube. So many parts on those three models of subs are interchangeable, it's amazing. This watch has the original dial, hands, crystal, the tall crown and original tube. The one thing that surprised me was how the lugs are not tall- they're very similar to the 16800s that I own. Not at all like the Euromariner 16610 that I have. The bracelet is the 93150 with 501 B end pieces and is marked S 6 on the clasp. I don't know if it's a service replacement, but it is in mint condition. But the whole watch is in mint condition with the exception of the aftermarket insert. One nice thing is the original date wheel with the open 6s and 9s- these were on the early 16610s for a few years and then they switched to the current type of DW with the closed 6s and 9s. Here's a wrist shot w/ todays date The tritium is getting a nice patina on the dial and the hands are a shade lighter. There is a feint glow at 4 am when I go to the bathroom! By the way, SN is R698,xxx which is the earliest I've seen on a 16610. Hope you enjoy the pics.

The information isn't in any books that I know of. This is just stuff I've picked up in 11 years of collecting. Books can't hurt, and reading on Vintage Rolex Forum is also a good idea. Looking at specific models on VRM or on ebay can also be helpful. I started out with the 1680 subs and then went on to the 16800 and finally the 16610. A good book is "Vintage Rolex Sport Models" by Skeet and Urul- you might check it out. And if you find a flat top 3 DW on a 16610, you can be sure it's aftermarket- Rolex never made one and the DW on a 1575 movement won't fit on a 3135 movt.

You should really consider editing your post and making the font color black, it's next to impossible to read on the RWG-forum theme. Thanks for your post, very insightful!

They are TD elsewhere as of now: http://kuvarsit01.com/

Lord, I was born a ramblin' manAnd when it's time for leavin'I hope you'll understand Thanks for the music Rest in peace

+1 btw: I have one waiting for a donor case.

My rep fiddy on handmade tan leather with sterling on rubber Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pam 243 on canvas Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pam GMT hobnail dial on gen Pam asso Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pam 390. Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

Pvd 6154 on Timebandits MP43 strap Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Nice! Looks good! Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

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Okay... First off, I apologize for the very crude, sloppy pics, but I snapped these in a hurry... 570 with an oversized 130; both are about the same diameter (~35mm/36mm): 16622 with the 130: 16234 with the 130: Trio:

I can't seem to find any pics of this PAM anywhere using Google search. Does anybody have any pics they'd like to share?

MIght want to read this thread, and every thread that is linked in it. Whenever you find a link that starts with www.rwg.cc/members/ change it to www.rwgforum.com/