chefcook

On the pic from your last post it is much less curved and very flat?! The radius on top definitely is quite big. Maybe I have to decrease the bottom radius to get the connecting point between end link and first bracelet link a little more down. Hope my description is understandable... I'll make a picture tomorrow.

Here is a parametric study of the middle link with different radiuses. 10mm: 12mm: 14mm: 16mm: 18mm: I think 14mm looks good. 12mm is already rounded too much.

wedge a were sharp blade between the links ... that's the only way to get them apart without damaging the bracelet.

Here are some pics of the TC bracelet on a Sean case: Sean's bracelet still is better fitting the case even though it is not the best.

Yep, that is what I wanted to ask, too

Already ordered. I've been waiting for this since the genuine 390 was released. Even the Pre-V hands on the rep are correct. That is so cool

Are you sure that the mid link should be more curved? Look at this genuine Sub (both pics show the same watch) and it looks pretty straight to me... Regarding the lug length or end link length my observation is that all rep cases actually have too short lugs. Only exception is Sean's case.

V3: I think I am getting closer. This is now 20.15mm wide. Do you think it is enough? The case it is mounted to is 5mm thick (only the mid case) between the lugs with a 1mm strap notch. Lug shape is roughly taken from my Sean case.

Not yet but I have some keyless works parts here to see if it is possible... but it will take a while before I can do it.

it is too dark here already for me to shoot pics were you'd see something but I'll make some tomorrow.

Cool Great that it turned out that good after your road trip

Exactly that. The spring bar position is different, so the end link has to be reworked to fit a Sean case. But even then there still is the gap on both sides...

Not that good. Needs some work to allow the use of 2mm spring bars on a sean case (spring bar position is different so that the spring bars cannot expand with a stock TC end link). It is not wide enough, too and leaves obvious gaps on all four lugs.

Got my TC bracelet yesterday within just a few days. TC is really a pleasure to work with. The bracelet is most probably the nicest you'll find for that kind of money (and availability) but there still are better bracelets.

Sure? That is not possible IMO. Should be around 0.3 to 0.4mm

End link fits nicely but the lug shape is terrible!

So today I had the opportunity to play with a genuine Submainer 16610. Unfortunately I couldn't take measurements but some important observations were made. Those observations were my base for V2 data: See were the radius of the end links meet the case? On gen watches it is tangential on the surface underneath the bezel. Maybe words are not a good description, so I made a picture: This applies to both the inner and outer part of the end link and resembles the slope of the lugs. The V2 end link was designed in a different way. For the first draft I took measurements of some end links and converted that to a model. This time I did it the other way and made a model of the area of the case between the lugs and fitted the end link model to that. That was the easier way and is most probably a lot more reliable regarding the measurements. Now that you had some nice pics to look at I need something from you, measurements to be more precise. So, get your calipers and some time The three values for A, B and C are in my opinion most important for a nice looking SEL. All sub cases I took measurements of have a diameter of 38.5mm between the lugs and 37mm diameter of the notch the lower part of the end link attaches to (the area where marking C is located in the drawing). I'd really appreciate measurements of your actual case for A, B and C. For example with my Sean case A should be around 4.8mm to look nice, B is exactly 5mm and C 0.3mm measured AT THE CASE (do not take measurements of your end links please!).

I don't want to decide who will manufacture them at this stage and I am not worried about not finding someone to produce those parts for us, having roughly 200 CNC shops in a range of 50 miles around my home including such companies as Fricker (watch case manufacturer for many brands, e.g. Precista and Sinn). Quality first and as I am desiging in metric units in accordance with DIN standards I'd prefer a company using the same standards and units.

Eiderdaus: I'll contact you - having a gen bracelet for one or two days to take some pictures and measurements would be great! Actually I think that the genuine lugs really are longer than on most reps. A pre-SEL GMT Master II of a friend as well as my genuine Datejust 16200 (same case as Explorer 114270 but without SELs, too) show slightly longer lugs than the typical rep cases. The only rep case I know that has the right lug length is the ETAswiss case. KBH: At least Noobmariner, WM9 V1, SA3135 and ETAswiss take the same bracelets with very minor work to the end links. All: Just to be not misunderstood - I don't want to produce a 1:1 bracelet end link. Actually it will be off in several dimensions, e.g. width and length. But my goal is to have a set of end links that eliminates one of the biggest tells on reps, the gap between case and end link while having gen like proportions and a gen like fit on the typical rep cases. I think that is far more helpful and more important than having a bracelet with 1:1 dimensions. IMO the Noobmariner is not the widely used franken base anymore it used to be a few years ago. With the current availability of TW Best / WM9 V1 cases and Sean's ETAswiss case I'd like to concentrate on those for those project. They are available, they are high quality items and most of the franken builders use those cases. In addition they come with good bracelets that are worth an upgrade.

I'am already working on V2 of the design. Will post new pics and detailed measurements tomorrow. Would welcome your thoughts, especially on the measurements.

So my plan to continue is the following: Discuss the dimensions here. I want it perfect and for that I definitely need RWG's support and know how. Produce some prototypes, most probably two or three sets. If it turns out to be a good SEL on the common cases go on... Produce a small series of parts. I am not going to make any money from this. I just want to have the best possible rep and I am not convinced that future might bring anything interesting in that regard from the factories. The parts certainly won't be cheap but honestly: Would maybe 150 Euros keep you off a serious improvement of your WM9 / TW Best / Sean case if people are willing to spend a lot more money on a less obvious genuine crystal? Just for clarification: That is just an estimate. At the moment I have no idea what we can expect cost wise...

I thought about that, too. All bracelets I took apart use 1mm bars to connect end links and bracelet. That is OK with the type of spring bars I want to use. The gen uses spring bars to connect end links and bracelet, too, by the way. Ubi and I already disassembled bracelets to reuse a noob bracelet with WM9 V1 / TW end links. It is doable, definetely. I can understand that some might not be wanting to disassemble a bracelet theirselves, so I might be offering complete bracelets using noob links and my own end links.

Hey Guys, Maybe you followed my recent Submariner built based on a Sean case (Etaswiss.net). While the case is superb the bracelet end links are so so. A genuine bracelet is extremely expensive at roughly 950 Euros, which would represent about two third of my built cost to date. So I am searching for a better bracelet.... All you builders of Sub / GMT / Explorer of the five digit references know the problem: All rep bracelet have terribly flawed end links. To be more precise: The noob end links: Terribly finished, cut outs to access the spring bars are horrible and the overall shape is mediocre. They are made from three pieces, which is incorrect. But they are wide enough for the typical rep case at about 20.2mm The TW Best end links: They look good, the quality is nice, but they are not wide enough for all cases with relatively exact 20mm width. In addition they use a three part construction while the geniune end links are made from one piece! The CN end links: Shitty in every aspect. But made from one piece, which is great. Usually a lot too narrow. ETAswiss end links: The dimensions and finish are not the best but they are a one piece design and are of high quality. Because of the less then sufficiently good finish they are not a good choice and usually they are a little too narrow. So, what do we need? A one piece construction Gen like dimensions Takes 2mm spring bars Wide enough to be used on most cases (20.25mm - if you need less just grind it down) High quality To make it short: There is no end link on the rep market available that fulfills those requirements. But if we would have such an end link it would be usable on Submariner Date, GMT Master, Explorer and Explorer II of five digit reference numbers, e.g. 16610, 16570, 16710, 16700, 114270 ... The rest of the bracelet including clasps is already available in great quality. Could this be a solution? I spent some time the last days taking measurements of various end links and rep cases and tried to implement that in a CAD design. This is the result: It has all the features at least I am looking for in a bracelet end link for our reps. It is designed to take 2mm spring bars and to be mounted to the bracelet with a 9mm long single shoulder spring bar of 1.8mm diameter. This is just a first design and I'd be very happy about your input. My goal is to produce a small run of those end links, maybe complete bracelets using noobmariner bracelets with the shown end links mounted to it. And besides your input about the end link design I'd be very happy about feedback showing interest to gauge a reasonable number of end links I should produce... Thanks for your time guys!

I send you a PM with the contact of a guy who got me a chronograph wheel in minute... Do you have an idea where to find an hour wheel? That is what is missing in my current Daytona Project

As far as I understood there is a gap on the sub he built using his bracelet but to me that does not mean that the SEL is too small on one side... Maybe it is the case that is too wide? That caused my question...