shimside11

Joe, it's great to hear from you again. I know there was some concern for your well being on this and other boards. It's just good to know that you are ok. I think that alot of new guys don't realize what a tremendous asset you have been to this community, but the old hands around here appreciate your skill and knowledge. Thanks for posting and letting us know that you're still around.

My favourite VC is actually the Overseas. I see that it's not on your list, but you might consider it if you like the brand. I tried on a genuine and immediately fell in love with it. 10,600USD retail is a bit much for me, so I've looked around. Josh's newest Overseas is very close. I have heard that it keeps company with the most accurate reps that we can get. Some here say that the cross on the dial is off, but you really would need a loupe to tell (I frankly don't see it...looks great to me). The overseas is next on my list.

Very well put OiRogers, you are a true gentleman. My grandfather was in France in WWI (yes, I) and came back with a questionable attitude toward them. That was something that I had to get past. Having studied the language and culture/literature, etc. I understand a bit of why the French outlook annoys many American sensabilities, but with some maturity and education we can learn to appreciate the differences. A good start is "Democracy in America" by Alexis DeTocqueville. Some of these guys would be well advised to chew on that for awhile, just to have a little background before they spout off and embarrass themselves.

What's the difference between a tachymeter and a tachymetre.... The tachymetre's ego is bigger.

" Excuse me sir, could you step over here, please. Those crown guards appear to be .05mm too thick!...I will need you to come with me...exactly as I thought...Either you've replaced the bezel insert or that watch is a FAKE!...Please remove the caseback, sir...we'll see soon enough if that's a REAL 3135 movement...please remove your clothing and put your hands against that wall while I fone Interpol." Yeah...they're gonna spot them, especially the PAM when they notice that the swan neck regulator is missing because you didn't pony up the extra cash to get the better one. Most French authorities can spot the weak Yachtmaster font from across the room, so you must leave that one at home. Ok, maybe the IWC GST Chrono, but with THOSE shoes?? Dead giveaway. Your only really safe bet is your Jacob rep, because nobody gives a sh** about that one. They will just smile at you condescendingly and laugh at you behind your back.

I've tried on several Navitimers, and I have a friend who has one. They're not much bigger than a speedy. I'm looking at the Breitling catalogue (Chronlolg 06) right now. Here are the stats. diameter-41.8mm, thickness-14.6mm, weight-79.4gr power reserve-42hrs. They look bigger than they really are because of how the bezel is designed. The Emergency, Bentley, Navitimer World, are big watches, and look even bigger because of the design, but the Navitimer is a great size (I have a small wrist <7") and looks great. This is a fantastic model. Don't let the size stop you. If you get it post a review and pics. The Navitimer is next on my list after the VC Overseas. Probably two months away. Hope that helps. Good luck.

number 2 is a rep. HE valve is in the wrong place. The AT reps are very good on the front. Show me the back and you'll give it away. Nobody can duplicate the coaxial movement under the display back. I'm going out on a limb and saying #3 is gen (HE valve placement) The others I'm not going to guess. It is scary how close these things are getting. It really makes you love this sport.

Go to timeman.net and get a used gen. They are not much in demand so the prices are very reasonable (that's probably why they're not repped also).

My first watch was a hand-wind Timex, pin lever movement. One of the last of the mechanicals before the quartz dark ages. Never really gave it much thought, and from then on, watches were just another battery operated device. I couple of years ago I was at my local jeweler/Rolex AD, looking for a anniversary band for my wife, when the guy gave me a fantastic pitch for Rolex watches. He also added that they are making knock-offs so good now, that alot of jewelers can't tell the difference. They had a customer bring one in for service, sent it off to Geneva and got a letter back from Rolex legal dept saying that they were keeping the watch, since it had their trademark on it, and suggested that the owner buy a genuine. So that started my fascination with genuine mechanicals and reps on the same day. I soon realized that the quartz revolution was dying and mechanicals were back. From then, I have been researching, comparing, learning all I can about watches and the industry. I think one thing that kept me intrigued is the disparity in price. How can one watch be worth 50,000 and another one 2000, yet both keep good time, and both have similar materials (maybe some gold, but not 50k worth of gold). Maybe the difference was in the movements, so I got into how the things worked and accumulated a modest cache of watchmaking tools. I got some cheap mechanicals and dug into them...it just gets worse from there. Buying various gens that I could afford, reps of the ones that I couldn't, collecting catalogues, watch magazines. My wife thinks I'm totally insane when I watch 2 hours of nothing but Jim Skelton pitching watch after watch, while she is watching much more wholesome TV (depictions of murders, crime scenes, etc.). This pursuit really has the potential of becoming an obsession - something that I did not bargain for when I embarked on it. I thought that it would be a nice past-time, but it has moved beyond that into the realm of avocation. I still don't know what the draw is. There is just something about the little creatures that won't let me go. Great topic, BTW, I'm interested in how others got to this point.

Here's a place to start with pics and features: royal oak

Most automatics can be wound manually. I've read cautions from The Zigmeister that you should take care in winding this model, wind it slowly because of potential damage to the click mechanism (that's my recollection, you might want to search, there are several posts). Other respected sources say go ahead and wind it - that's what they're made for. I've had my ETA sub for over a year, and wind it all the time. It keeps great time and I've never had a problem with it. Some autos cannot be wound, like the movement in the Seiko Orange Monster. I would love that model, but the winding issue and the fact that it does not stop the second hand when you pull out the crown (hacking), has kept me from it. My own sub rep has a power reserve of about 36 to 40 hours on a full wind, if you need something to compare to. One other thing. You can't overwind an automatic watch. There is a clutch that disengages the winding mechanism from the main spring when it is fully wound. (Sorry for the clumsy technical terms, but you get the point.) The crown won't stop when it's done, but you may hear a tiny click if you listen hard. You can keep winding all day and not know when it's wound up, so a general rule of thumb is about 30 to 50 turns should get it there.

I have seen more posts about sucessful water experiences than stories of the watch fogging up or getting water in it. It seems that the better reps are at least water resistant to a practical degree. Mine have the rubber seal, and if the caseback is tight and the crown is screwed down, it should work. Since I have taken off the casebacks and put them back with a tape ball (no rolex caseback tool yet), I don't have the nerve to take them swimming. Bottom line is, I think that if you check it first and make sure that it's properly sealed, a little dip here and there won't hurt most of the good reps. (But don't whine when your crystal explodes because the HE valve on your SD rep didn't work ) Any other first hand experiences?

I'm rather new to the PAM game and I am learning what the obvious tells are with the reps. Think of this as an exercise, I know it's probably obvious but just humour me . pam 111 Canon pinion is recessed, no swan neck regulator, main photo is not the watch for sale. If it's a gen then I've got to get back to the books. If it's a rep, please school me with the finer points. Thanks for your help.

My guess would be that the factories that make brands like Alpha and Apogaum, kids watches and novelty stuff, are into the rep game as well. There are alot of watches on ebay that look identical to our reps, but have a generic name on them. My favourite is the Alpha PO. As for the high-end stuff that we get, probably only a few have realized that there are freaks like us out there, and are rising to the challenge of meeting the demand. That's quite a risk to take - catering to pissy, demanding clients that are satisfied with nothing but the best. I admire their pursuit of this market, just the kind of client alot of people try to avoid

There is one called InSync, it's has a different take on the type of brands it profiles. It's nice to have a few different mags to get a good picture of the whole industry.

Here's a couple of shots of the Goldfinger watch...

I'm still in awe of Tag's 360 chrono movement. 360,000 bph when the chrono is running.

I noticed a wrist at a grocery store the other day that had a PAM GMT (161? maybe). I had never seen anyone in my city with a Panerai before, and discreetly positioned myself to get a decent look before I mentioned it. I said "is that a Panerai?" His face lit up and he said "wow, you know your watches..." and then told me all about it. Made his day that someone recognized the watch. I got back to my wife at the shopping cart and she said "were you stalking that guy?" no, just noticing a fine timepiece... "you were stalking him, weren't you" "Stalking"? I'm certainly not prepared to call it that. That's way too creepy. I'm glad that I'm in good company and that other people notice wrists too, otherwise I'd start to get some kind of complex. First, it's watch porn, then stalking.... Anyway, why pay ten thousand dollars for a watch (or 300 for a rep of the watch) and expect to go out in public and not turn any heads. The ocasional comment helps justify the purchase.

Nice twelve-year-old-girl watch. Why does it say "Radiomir Panerai" on it? I think someone at the watch factory is confused.

My feelings exactly. This is a nice way of test-driving a watch. Still, I do like the ones that I would never get in a genuine - two examples: The old subs have a great look and feel to them, with the domed crystals and the nice patina. It's a very comfortable feeling to wear them, especially if you've modded them. But there is no way I would ever buy a 1958 genuine bond sub and wear it like I do my rep. Most of the guys that can afford something like that keep it in a glass case in their den and show all their buddies when they come over. Even If I could get one, the fear of dinging it on something would take all of the fun out of wearing it. Second, I've fallen in love with Panerai. They have a great heft and imposing look to them. They are also huge and run a much higher risk of falling from favour in a few years. I can handle keeping my big 80s Wayfarers in my drawer for 15 years until they come back into vogue, but I don't want a 5kusd watch gathering dust in my watch box because it looks ridiculous by 2015 standards. There are so many reasons to buy these things that one could justify the purchase from most any angle. I just buy the ones I like and have fun while they're still available.

I just got a PAM 120 rep from Josh about 4 weeks ago. It's a 40mm w/ a blue dial. Great looking watch. I've taken it to my local dealer and compared it to other 40mms (namely the 50 and 51). The bracelet is spot on. The weight, feel, colour, etc. of the bracelet are virtually identical, as is the case. There is a serial or model number on the inside of one link on the gen that is missing on the rep but you really can't tell the difference without a loupe. Also, the caseback says 0938/5000, which was true for the 70 model, but the 120s production was limited to 500. (yes, I'm aware that it's anal retentive, but that's really all part of the fun, isn't it). As to the dial, I tried on a gen at Tourneau about 9 weeks ago, which made me want this one. The colour is right, and everything else on the dial is very close. The date mag is rather weak, however. Only an owner of a 120 or a dealer that knows them well could tell. Also, the lume on the dial is virtually non-existant, but in the light there is a green cast to the numbers and markers that make you think that it would glow all night. Just don't take it to the cinema and you should be fine. This one is taking all the wrist time and the other watches are envious. I have no problem wearing it in public in any situation, whereas my SS Sub (as close as it is) gets a second thought if I am going to be in the company of people that might know the model. A jeweler friend of mine that sells Breitling, Omega, Baume & Mercier, etc., asks about it every time I see him and marvels at the quality. That's good enough for me. If he's impressed then I know it's good. The movement is a hampster running in a wheel, really. If you take off the back you find a tiny little Asian movement, held in place by the canon pinion and the stem. The plastic spacer ring does no one any good, but I guess if you're going to pay that kind of money you've got to have the plastic spacer ring . But it does have working seconds at nine, the date clicks immediately at midnight and it hacks (two features that my Miyota driven Invicta lacks). I would highly recommend the purchase. For the money it is one of the best reps I have. I'm not very good at 1-100 scales, but I've heard that it's one of the more accurate PAMs. I hope that helps. Good luck, and post a review if you decide to get one. (I will add some pics as soon as I get some time.)

This watch was high on my wish list until I tried on the genuine. I found the case to be very thick for the bracelet that they have on it. It really seemed to be off balance. I have been interested in the Ingenieur's comeback since IWC re-introduced it, but I was quite disappointed when I saw it in person. I'm glad it was the gen that I tried on, because, had I tried on the rep first, I would have blamed it's ill-conceived design on the assumption that the watch was just a bad replica. That's just my opinion, I still think that it's a great looking watch, just not for me. I learned that it is very important to actually hold and try on a watch before you take the plunge. I guess that is one of the advantages of having reps, so you can see what you're getting without spending 10k on a watch that you won't like over time.

Upon looking through a 7x loupe I found that the subdial is indeed "swirled" (I can't think of a better description), concentric etched rings, and the colour is very close. The date mag would be a pita to fix since it is inside of the crystal - you could probably get an OEM and hope that it fits. Also, the lume is quite pathetic so if I'm going to be out at night, this one stays in the watch box as punishment. If I want poor lume, I'll wear my vintage bond sub which is expected to have had some fade in 30 years. If I had an extra 5300usd sitting around, I would buy the gen tomorrow. It's got such a wonderful look and feel to it.

That is a great rep. I just got a 120 from Josh a few weeks ago. I wouldn't worry about anyone calling you out. The only real tell is the date mag. From the research I've done, this is one of the closest PAM reps. The bracelet on the 120 is very nice too. I took mine to my local AD and compared a few of them. I walked away quite satisfied with the quality (considering I saved about 5000USD), and have no problem wearing it in public. If you get called out it will be from someone that is more of a freak than we are here. Congrats, wear it proudly.

Here's a link to some tachymeter stuff tach