automatico

"I've read over on RWI that the new batches of WSO 580 endlinks haven't been up to the same level of quality that the previous ones were.  I am not the only one who has had problems getting them to fit.  Maybe it is a case by case issue?  I am sure when they drill these lugholes they aren't using tolerances of tens of thousandths of an inch. Some people have had to sand them, or open/close the clam shell to make them work with their cases."

I bought a few sets of WSO 580 hoods a couple months back and had to fit each one to MBK cases (do not have the latest cartel case yet). It was fairly easy as all I had to do was cut a little bit off the curved top side and maybe squeeze the 'ears' a bit against the underside of the lugs. Where you usually get in trouble with aftmkt hoods with soldered spring bar tubes is when you force the hoods against the case while trying to get the spring bar tips started through the lug holes...the tubes sometimes break off. I drill the lug holes to 1.3mm and slightly taper the holes on the insides of the lugs to help guide the spring bars...while taking care that the tops of the hoods do not rub against the rotating bezel.

I have an MBK '5513' with a 7836 folded oyster from 'Mary' and I removed the tubes from the hoods and they stay in place pretty good. The hoods that came with the bracelet are numbered 358 and look just like genuine but the tubes did not line up with the MBK lug holes. I used a shallow 'eight holes in a row' vintage type clasp cap without a dive extension with one link removed from the 6 o'clock end of the bracelet to center it on the wrist...5 links on 6 o'clock side, 7 on 12 o'clock side with 2 of the 7 links under the clasp cap. Next, I made a tool out of a pair of strap notching pliers to punch proper 'keeper dents' in the clasp cap to hold the bracelet up against the clasp cap at the open end so it would not flop around.

Sometimes it's easier to just give up and remove the tubes and let the hoods be loose on older style bracelets. 

 I ground a slight 'beak' on the movable cutter jaw and narrowed the jaw slightly on both sides so it would not cut into the clasp cap. It makes near perfect keeper dents.   Here is what the notch cutter tool looked like to start with, except mine has a wider cutting jaw:   eBay item   280975259346

This is off the subject a bit but I have had the best luck r/r Novodiac shock springs with a hollow punch with the hole tapered like a funnel on the inside from a standard staking set, mine is a Kendrick & Davis (K&D). Select a punch that is slightly smaller than the jewel setting and gently turn the spring to the openings by turning the punch by hand. This works better than any high priced tool you can find...but you have to find the correct punch.

The punch I use is about 1.4/1.5mm at the tip. You can sand the tip down if needed by chucking the punch in a drill to spin it. They sell for about $1 or $2 each on eBay, watch shows etc or a repair guy may have an extra one they will sell.

I do not know what sizes these are but here is what they look like except these do not have tapered (funneled) holes...eBay item number:  191834675111

Here is what my staking set looks like, a friend gave it to me:  eBay item number:  371580372242  This one is only $750.  (!!)

Btw, Otto Frei has the springs for $2.45USD if you know anyone in the USA who might get them for you. I do not have an account with them.     http://www.tztoolshop.com/page94.html      Buy 12 and get them for almost half price.

The guy who set this speed record is a friend of mine...I worked with him and his brother at a Kaw/Yam shop for a few years. I nicknamed him 'Zeek' and later 'Hatchet Head' because he is so little and skinny.

http://best-motorcycle-accidentlawyer.us/2016/02/27/kawasaki-h2r-top-speed/

Zeek's brother and his dad made a run at a record a few years ago. I nicknamed the brother 'Mighty Mouse' because he is a little bitty guy too.

http://www.sportrider.com/kawasaki-zx-10r-maxton-project-red-sled

I have a bunch of crazy stories about my 12 years at this shop plus I worked 5 years before that (in the early/mid 1980s) at a Yam/Suzuki shop owned by a pro wrestler (Devoy Brunson) and a couple years in the late 1980s at a Ducati/Husky shop (owned by a guy who was crazier than I was). Started out in a Norton/Triumph/Matchless/Ducati/AJS/Velocette shop waaay back. All my MC shop jobs later on were part time but my 'regular job' was just 3 days a week. Another pro wrestler named 'The Mongolian Stomper' used to come in the Yam/Suzuki shop often to see the owner and he drove a VW Scirocco...he was 6 feet 6 inches tall and weighed about 275...nicest guy you ever saw. He literally unfolded and crawled out of that little VW.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2000-12-08/entertainment/0012080078_1_mongolian-stu-hart-wrestler

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=the+mongolian+stomper&qpvt=the+mongolian+stomper&qpvt=the+mongolian+stomper&FORM=IQFRML

I been around. I trade watches now because I'm crippled up from various 'endeavors' throughout the years. Started MC riding about 1960 and started getting crippled up in the early 1980s when I went deer hunting on a '83 Suzuki GS1100ED up in the mountains.

Score = Deer 1   Me 0   Now I can tell when it is going to rain a day before it hits.  

"Is there a difference b/w the 5513 case back and a 1680?"

Afaik the threads and overall sizes are the same but lower grade replica cases (cartel/DW etc) may be off spec. For example, my 'in spec' IG44 and Yuki 1680/5512/13 case backs will all interchange but DW cases came with two different case back thread sizes, one size will fit MBK, IG44, and Yuki but the other size is too big in thread diameter. Internally, Yuki, IG44, Phong etc high grade cases will be (should be) genuine spec but from what I have seen all DW and later MBK cases are the same internally no matter what reference number they are supposed to be.

MBK = made for Eta 2836\46 or rolex 1575 date movements (like in a 1680) but have 26.0mm dial openings where genuine 1680 dials are 26.5mm. Case backs are supposedly oem spec for threads etc. All I have seen were Ok.

DW cases = hit or miss for case back threads but internally all that I have seen (10) were made to 1680 spec for 1575 rolex date movements (or eta 2836/46) and have 26.5mm dial openings no matter what reference number they are supposed to be. Most came with spring wire bezels and the case necks were just a hair undersize and different crystal/bezel combos may have to be tried. They make very good 'aged' 1680 projects though. 'Aged' = they look like they have been heavily polished a few times and the case sides are rounded with no lug bevels and the lugs are a little bit thinner in side profile. With a full set of random scratches they look 40 years old. Full set = case, crystal, insert, rotating bezel, and bracelet.

Earlier cartel cases (Abay/Pam111 and other 'famous' sellers 10-12 years ago) were more or less genuine spec size on the outside but many came with the wrong size case back threads with case back gaskets mounted in the case like a vintage SD and many with oversized dial openings. The case necks were mostly oem spec so oem spec crystals and bezel sets will fit. They make good eta projects but may need oversized dials or precision fitting movement spacers to keep the dial centered. Case tube threads are oem spec. Most had lug holes centered in the lugs so they could be drilled out to 1.3mm without touching the bevel or lower edge...unlike many cases today. This is something to always look for before buying a case that needs to be drilled out.

If these cases will accept a no date rolex 15xx it would be a home run for genuine movement projects cutting $500 to $1000+ off the price.

Here are the 15xx movement thickness measurements again:

1520/30/60/70/80  no date 12.5 ligne (28.5mm)  H = 5.75mm

1525/35/65/75  date 12.5 ligne (28.5mm)  H = 6.30mm

1565/75  date/GMT 12.5 ligne (28.5mm)  H = 6.47mm

1555/56  Day/Date 12.5 ligne (28.5mm)  H = 7.03mm

"I tried a gen 1570 with the new cartel case I got from Sead. The movement fits & the stem lines up but it sits too high for the case back to screw in. Maybe a 1520 might fit better."

Did you try a 1570/75 date or no date mvt?  If a 15xx date mvt is a little bit too thick, a no date might work.

I have a 1520 with 26mm Yuki 5513 dial on it along with MBK, Yuki, and DW case backs. If you want to send the case to me I can try different combos and see what might work...or I could buy the case if you are not going to use it.

There are a lot of bogus quartz dressy style Seikos and Seiko 5 automatics (not dive styles) around, many with b/p. I got stuck with some a few years ago.

"The 1530 movement is thicker than the 1520."

"Really? I did not know that. Huh."

The 1520 and 1530 are the same size with nearly identical plates etc.

Straight from a rolex manual:

1520/30/60/70/80  no date 12.5 ligne (28.5mm)  H = 5.75mm

1525/35/65/75  date 12.5 ligne (28.5mm)  H = 6.30mm

1565/75  date/GMT 12.5 ligne (28.5mm)  H = 6.47mm

1555/56  Day/Date 12.5 ligne (28.5mm)  H = 7.03mm

edit:  Look around the outside edge of the dial on the front side and see if there is any space at all between the dial and dial seat aka (reflector/rehaut). If there is any space it usually means the movement has seated but the dial has not...find out why. Maybe the case is a hair out of spec or something. Next, look at the back side of the movement where the movement casing screw heads fit into the groove in the case and make sure they are both in place in the groove, not out of the groove. Exceptions = when case clamps have been used, I had to use case clamps on a couple of my MBK/1520 '5513' and 1575 '1680' because the case screws were too tight in the groove.

If the dial is tight against the front of the case and the casing screws are in the proper position, the next thing to check would be to make sure the dial is snug against the movement and no spacer has been used. If this all checks out, the case will need some detail machining.

"IIRC the 2846/2836 is what HH designed the case for, but I know dbane and fitch (maybe others) built 5514's with a 1520 and HH case. Maybe there's a trick to getting everything to line up?"

The Eta 2836/46 is close to the rolex 1575 date and the 2824 is close to the rolex 15xx no date models...not exact but close and the swap from Eta to 15xx usually goes Ok...depending minor details inside the case.

"Yes, the HH case is made for gen, but the movement position is not perfectly on mine. I don't know if this is a common issue with this case set."

It may be the same type of problem as with MBK cases. Read the 'Building an MBK Sub' sticky above. The part about the dial window and dial seat will not apply. 

Besides being a hassle to r/r the stem with the misalignment, it will quickly wear the main plate out of round if the stem/crown is turned a lot so it would be a good idea to sort it out. Is the movement too close to the front of the case or to the rear? This makes a difference in how easy it will be to fix. 

Some projects seem to fall together and some fight you every step of the way ('fallers' or 'fighters'). Almost all of mine have been fighters.  

You will need a crystal gasket or maybe a crystal and a gasket. Order them by supplying crystal OD and bezel ID plus thickness.

If the watch originally came with a gasket, my guess is the gasket went missing because someone tried to r/r the crystal and damaged the gasket or the crystal cracked and they decided to glue one in. One way to tell if the watch originally came with a gasket or with the (original) crystal glued in is to see how much space there is between the crystal od and bezel id...real close = glued in and loose = gasket. If it had a gasket to begin with and the original crystal is missing and a larger OD crystal was glued in, it will be hard to tell. One thing you need to know for sure...is this is the original crystal or not so you can determine how it needs to be fixed. I looked at pictures of Hour Angle watches and there are a lot of different models and I can not tell if there is a gasket or not for sure.

The crystal should be installed by someone who knows what they are doing because if it is a 'press in a gasket' type, any glue, dirt etc will need to be cleaned away and the crystal pressed in the case back without damage to the rest of the watch. It may be made so the bezel can be removed and the crystal installed. Maybe not.

I wonder...did the seller buy it with (1) the crystal loose? (2) crystal glued in? (3) the crystal pressed in a gasket? (4) did they glue it in? (5) was it loose when they shipped it?

Somebody got some 'splainin' to do..

"Looks ok. Horrible LUMINOUS markers but what can you expect. I also suspect the buckle and movement will crap out on you fairly quickly. my best guess is this watch is not worth the money they are asking."

+1

Imho the rolex 3135 clone could turn out to be a dud.

I bought a similar watch last year with a defective 2836 etaclone from a member and put a fresh swiss eta 2836 in it. Runs like a champ. I do not have much respect for the over complicated clasp though...especially where the flip lock is soldered to the blade (photo 5/11 left side on the supplied link).  For a reliable, easy to repair watch, the better choice may be one with an eta clone and be ready with a swiss eta for when the etaclone seizes up. Everything from an etaclone should work with a swiss eta...dial, hands, spacer etc. Hard to beat a swiss eta 28xx, they have been making them 40+ years.

"...wondering if you guys are putting yours on a rivet or oyster bracelet?"

Because the 5512 came out in the late 1950s it could have any of the three most popular vintage oyster bracelets...rivet, folded, or solid outer links and many earlier models probably came without a flip lock clasp. I guess bracelet choice should go along with the period the watch was shooting for...square cg, pointed cg, regular cg, and type of dial, MBK being more like the later examples. Many 5512 also came with '5513' dials and case backs.

Nato type straps are good but they can make 'saw marks' on the case back after a while...basically a choice between the hoods chewing the mid case between the lugs or the case back getting roughed up.

With the MBK case, the watch is by default a more modern type with the O ring under the crystal retainer bezel but since it can not be seen, it does not really matter that much. There is also the laser engraved letters/numbers to contend with so if someone wanted a period correct and authenic 5512 a better route would probably be to go for a Yuki case with the appropriate serial number before bezel gaskets (Yuki cases do not have them) and proper dial. Otoh, it is relatively easy to cut the gasket groove in the top of a case to 'go modern'. Another alternative might be the new breed of 'cartel' 5512/13/1680 cases but I have not handled one yet.

"I'm assuming the MBK is gen-spec? Does the bezel really pry off easily (as in all the videos)?"   

MBK cases are more or less 'gen spec' except they are 1680 spec inside with 5512/13 spec dial openings. The case neck, bezel, crystal etc is genuine spec. They were made for Eta 2836 and just happen to also accommodate a genuine rolex 1570/5 date movement...but with a 26mm dial. They are probably the best affordable project cases around for Eta projects but not a 'drop in' for a rolex 15xx. The MBK rotating bezels r/r easily but you must be careful not to bend the bezel or it will have tight spots when turning it.

"I'm used to working with the cheapy paper-clip bezels."

Well made 'paper clip' bezels are a viable alternative to snap on bezels for 'tool watches' used under demanding conditions because they will take a knock and not fall off like rolex type snap on bezels. My guess is rolex went to snap on bezels so the gomers at their AD and repair depots could swap rotating bezels and inserts in a hurry without much hassle. Anyone with a razor blade can r/r a rolex snap on bezel but to r/r the bezel from a lowly 'F520117 noobmariner' (for example) without damage separates the repairmen from the repairboys in a hurry. After all, rolex used wire retainer bezels on turnographs, 6536/38 etc and many modern watches still do today. Rotating bezels inside the case ('compressor' type cases etc) is one solution to rotating bezel loss/damage but you have one more crown and potential water leak to contend with plus a drive cog connected to the crown and teeth on the bezel. Outer rotating bezels are more attractive and can be styled to draw attention to the watch and are usually easier to read.

Some good info on the 5512:

http://le-monde-edmond.com/5512-submariner-in-depth-review/

The 'noob' modern non ceramic GMT II from 6 or 8 years back were not too bad except for the (non adjustable) wrong hand stack. They have the same serial number as noob subs...F520117, at least the one I had did, and they also have swiss etas and sapphire crystals. Be careful of the models with adjustable 24H hands, some were prone to trouble. I have not seen any for sale in a long time though. By-Tor might have done a review on one. Most of the plastic crystal 1675 models were not too hot imho. I have one with a swiss eta 2836 from years back but it just looks out of whack and the dial has 'oyster perpetual date' on it. They are Ok for a drive by but anyone who knows much about them would bust it.

The curse is the price... £1600/$2270USD. I traded into one more or less like it (ref 1500) 1-10-16 and ended up with $250USD in it. Timehead only. No shorty hoods. No strap. No buckle. No curse.    No Bull Sheet. 

I would bet that just about every 'dial refinished on a genuine dial plate' is not what it is claimed to be. Why? Because not many genuine dial plates are floating around today like they were 20 or 25 years ago. I used to see old rolex dials (mostly 6694, 1500, 1600 DJ etc) at NAWCC shows for $15 or $20 each and only bought 8 or 10 in all the years I belonged to the NAWCC. They just were not important back then like they are now because you could still buy dials at the friendly rolex AD.

Fast forward to 2000 or so when higher grade 'refinished' dials started showing up, there were not nearly enough 'genuine dial plates' to go around so fakers did what they do best...make fake signed dial plates. Since the genuine signed plates were sometimes roughly signed anyway, the bogus plates will usually pass inspection...except for the wrong sized dial feet posts, shoddy soldering, and notches at 3.

What difference does a dial 'refinished on a genuine dial plate' make compared to 'refinished on a fake dial plate'? None at all unless the rest of the watch is genuine imho. One could claim a refinished dial using a genuine signed dial plate is 100% Ok (I would go along with this), but in reality the same refinishing job on a fake signed dial plate does not make much difference on an otherwise genuine watch (to many) and no difference at all on a fake or Frankenstien watch imho. In order to determine if the dial plate is genuine you would need to be somewhat of a 'backside dial expert' and after all, how many rolex characters will allow some Bozo to r/r their 'refinished dial on a genuine dial plate' (oxymoron!) just to try to tell if the damn plate is genuine to the brand? Not many I bet. 

As for the 'genuine dial plate' being original to a particular watch...it would be a real stretch to prove such a claim.

Btw...the rolex purists who will not allow a 'refinished dial on a replica dial plate' on an otherwise genuine watch today would have been dancing in the street 20 years ago for a refinished dial on a fake plate with the quality we have today.

The bottom line (to me anyway) is a genuine watch should have a genuine dial plate if possible and replicas and F-steins do not matter at all. As time goes by and top grade replica cases, dials, bracelets etc can not be distinguished from genuine, the 'genuine dial plate' matter will disappear just like the '100% genuine, never welded or polished case' matter is slowly dissolving now.

Q...If the swiss watch factories could make nearly identical genuine cases by the thousands with the tools available 50 years ago...why can't the Chinese/Taiwanese etc make them now on the super high tech machines they have today for almost $nothing, like cranking out Canal Street Specials?

A...They can, they just don't want to. They could also make dials that are identical to genuine (except for tritium) but they do not want to do this either. But they are very close on both counts.

'dial plate = 'baseplate'

1530 base for vintage = H 1.2  M .80  S .20 (mm)  All 15xx hole sizes are the same.

3035/3135 = H 1.40  M .95  S .22 (mm)  All 3000/3035/3130/3135 etc hole sizes are the same.

You will need a way to measure the holes in the hands or use a loupe and examine them to determine which have the smaller or larger holes.

You might buy a low buck hand press similar to this to make it a LOT easier...eBay item number  121675756829.  It is a knockoff of a Horotec tool but good enough to use. Start the hands by holding the tips with 'Rodico' etc and gently press them on a little bit with a hand held pusher like eBay item number  281157819243  to get them started . Why 'Rodico? Handling watch hands with tweezers will scratch them and handling watch hands with bare fingers may cause corrosion of discoloration...or you can use 'finger cots'. Finish up with the Horotec type tool because it will mount the hands straight as long as the movement is level. Use thin plastic between the hands and push tool after starting the hands...I use one or two layers of 'Saran Wrap'. You can also remove hands from dials with a couple layers of Saran Wrap between the tool and hands/dial to protect them. Be careful starting hands on the movement because a hand held tool can slip off the hands and mark the dial.

'Rodico' = watch putty.   

'Finger cots' = little bitty 'rubbers' for fingers or for cheapos like me...fingers cut off rubber gloves.        

Aging dials = usually a bad idea unless you have a lot of dials (or $$).

Aging cases = let your kid brother, girlfriend, or wife wear it for a week.   

 Broaching hands = you are on your own, read up on it and practice.   

 Practice = doing the same thing over and over until you master the craft (more or less) or by working on someone else's stuff until you get better at it. 

Be sure the 'someone else' is farsighted.     

When I run into a case tube that is solidly stuck like this I remove the movement, bezel, and crystal then heat the case tube with a pin point butane mini torch and remove it. This has always worked for me. It seems glued in case tubes are harder to remove than cross threaded case tubes. The case tube in the MBK 5512 I just got was glued but it came out using a six sided broach. The cement left a powdered residue as I removed the case tube indicating epoxy or superglue.

Chances are the case is not ruined, you could maybe run down one of the Athaya tube/crown combos with the oversize case tube, drill the case to size, and install it.

"well lets see. here are two MBKs i had from 2012"

Here is a picture of a 5512 exactly like the one I got, same serial number and all:

https://rwg.cc/topic/183042-vintage-rolex-5512-5513-5514-1680-red-or-white

The 5512 I got has the thicker bezel...3.0mm vs 2.15mm for regular MBK 5512/13/1680 and 2.10mm for Clark/ST. This is the bezel only, no insert.

Looks like the 5512 and 5513 pictured in the link above have thicker SD type bezels and the 5514 pictured below them has the thinner bezel.

I wonder if MBK used the same mid case and case back for the 5512/13/1680 along with the 1665? Maybe the 1665 just has the thicker bezel and SD lettered 5512/13/1680 case backs. I have MBK 5512, 5513, and 1680 cases apart and the mid cases are 5.0/5.02mm at 9 o'clock (just the case) and average 6.5mm thick including the case necks. The case backs are 5.45/5.5mm thick overall measured in the center including threads and 4.0mm thick not counting the threads. The cases with the case backs screwed all the way down are 10.75/10.8mm thick including the case necks and 9.0mm/9.05mm not counting the case necks. All the cases are very close to the same, just a few hundredths mm difference one way or the other. The 5512/13/1680 cases are all the same size on the outside and from my experiences r/r a few dozen movements in them, the insides are also all the same. The 5512/5513/1680 all have 25.46/25.5mm dial openings, the 5512/13 have proper 26.0mm od dials and the 1680 has what probably started out as a 26.5mm dial cut down (roughly by hand it looks like) to 26.0mm plus or minus.

Anyone who has an MBK SD can compare these sizes to see if maybe the main cases and backs are the same. The SD mid case may he a hair thicker, I can not tell from the pictures.

I do know this though...after comparing these cases with genuine cases there is very little difference in overall machine work and finish quality. Same goes for my 5512/13 Yuki cases along with one IG44 1680 case and one Phong 1655 case. If anyone took the time to detail finish these cases along with exact numbers/letters they would be very hard to tell from genuine after a couple years of daily wear. They are probably already out there, some with 'official replacement' 444 case numbers.

Edit:  I just remembered that genuine and many replica 5512/13/1680 cases have gaskets mounted in case backs and SD have them mounted in the cases...if MBK SD cases have the gasket mounted in the case, it means the MBK SD case backs are in fact different from 5512/13/1680.

"Although I am 90% sure the case needs to be re-tapped and then countersunk as well for it to sit like gen."

I posted this information 22 hours ago in 'General Discussion' under  "Please MBW 5513 case accept genuine crown?"   post number 15:

"...I just now tried a genuine 7mm crown on the MBK 5512 I got last week from Reppin and it will not work because the case tube in the MBK case is not oem spec and the post on the genuine crown will not go into the MBK case tube...the hole in the tube is too small. The MBK tube is not made to have an O ring down low outside but the crown does have a skirt machined at the bottom for O ring clearance (??). On my other MBK cases, I removed the case tubes as soon as I worked on them and installed oem spec case tubes (did not try oem crowns on them) and the oem case tubes screwed right in but iirc the relief in the case for the case tube base gasket (where the tube contacts the case) was not oem spec and I had to use an aftmkt gasket of some sort. The MBK crown will not screw down onto an oem spec case tube either because the MBK crown threads are too small. The MBK tube and crown look like the same case tube and crown set that came on some of my DW cases. The MBK case tube is made like an old 8mm tube except for the size."

update:  Where I said..."The MBK tube is not made to have an O ring down low outside..."   I was wrong. The MBK tube has a groove down at the bottom but the O ring on mine was missing.

...and this additional info is from a note I sent to a member about 30 minutes ago:

"I removed the case tube on the 5512 I got last week and a genuine rolex case tube screwed right in so any oem spec aftermarket case tube will also fit. Since all four of my MBK cases will accept oem case tubes, maybe they all will. The case is machined for a gasket between the tube and case but I do not know if an oem gasket will work or not. The lug holes are a bit under size and will need to be drilled out for genuine spec spring bars.

There is also a gasket groove in the top of the case under the crystal retainer bezel like later model genuine watches but there was no O ring in it. On my MBK 5513, I put a gasket under the crystal retainer ring but I had to go down a size in thickness from what a genuine case uses...from 1.0mm thick to .9mm thick iirc. Could have been .8mm, can not remember. If you have the bezels and crystal retainer off and decide to install this gasket just be sure the crystal retainer bezel will press down all the way to the top of the case. If the gasket is too thick the crystal retainer bezel will not seat against the case and the rotating bezel will not fit properly and be too far from the top of the case.

The case tube threads had some type of sealer/cement on them and the tube was harder than usual to remove. I used a six sided broach to remove it then ran a pipe cleaner through the case threads a few times to remove the cement. If you do run a tap through the case threads be very careful as it is easy to cross thread the tap and ruin the case threads."

Just now...

My advice is:

Do not try to re-tap the case tube threads in a modern MBK case. They will accept a genuine case tube or any oem spec aftmkt case tube. If the threads are clean and an oem spec case tube will easily go in a turn or two, run it on in because it is fine.

No telling how many cases have been damaged by running a tap into these small threads. It is very hard to start a small cutting tap straight in small threads. If anyone is going to do this type of precision work...start with scrap cases and go very slowly, do not start with a $400 case. I started working on this stuff in 1972 and believe it or not, I know what I am talking about.  

...or did anyone else notice the MBK 5512 and 5513 currently pictured for sale have sea dweller bezels? The 5512 I got from Reppin last week has the thicker bezel...3.0mm vs 2.15mm for regular MBK 5512/13/1680 and 2.10mm for Clark/ST. This is for the bezel only, no insert.

No foul on this because SD type bezels are very hard to find compared to regular 5512/13/1680.

I wrote part 1 but did not write part 2. I was jimmythree on TRC from 7-19-04 until the bloody end. Before that, I had another screen name but TRC blew up and I changed my name to j3 to get back in because it would not take my original screen name or pw. I was TRC member 43 and before TRC came on the scene I was on the old EZ Board RWCC.

BTW I just now tried a genuine 7mm crown on the MBK 5512 I got last week from Reppin and it will not work because the case tube in the MBK case is not oem spec and the post on the genuine crown will not go into the MBK case tube...the hole in the tube is too small. The MBK tube is made to have an O ring down low outside and the crown does have a skirt machined at the bottom for O ring clearance but none of it is oem spec. On my other MBK cases, I removed the case tubes as soon as I worked on them and installed oem spec case tubes (did not try oem crowns on them) and the oem case tubes screwed right in but iirc the relief in the case for the case tube base gasket (where the tube contacts the case) was not oem spec and I had to use an aftmkt gasket of some sort. The MBK crown will not screw down onto an oem spec case tube either because the MBK crown threads are too small. The MBK tube and crown look like the same case tube and crown set that came on some of my DW cases. The MBK case tube is made like an old 8mm tube except for the size.

I will put part 1 in my 'crown info' sticky in the rolex section but not part 2 because I did not write it. The MBK info will be put in the 'building an MBK sub' sticky.

"He also had a killer 1680 case with correct spelling & sn"

Yep, the first two cases I got were fine but the third one was made out of STINLESS STEEL. Must be a new space age alloy.

I loaded up on them thinking they were super hot (and relatively cheap), but...well...they were 'in spec 1680' on the inside but 'out of spec 1680' on the outside. Thin lugs, pot belly sides, no bevels, spring wire bezels but fairly high quality none the less. I made up a '1680' using one with a gennywine 1680 dial and 1570/5 movement just so the movement would be kept clean and dry, then a 5513 with a 1520 and a dial spacer to keep the dial from falling through the front of the case and next, another 1680 with a Yuki dial and old 1570/5 that I wore quite a bit. They do have good letters/numbers inside the case backs but the case backs come in two different thread/outside diameter sizes, no telling why.

It's true...I am a cheerleader for DW 1680 cases, but only because I have 8 or 10 of the damn things. Who knows, someday they might be collector items...just like my Abay vintage and noob mariners did.      

In the USA a watch like this will sell at an NAWCC Mart or trader table for $75 to $125 USD/100 to 170CAD in average condition with no service history. Worn gold filled cases can kill the value of a watch so you need to know the condition. Look for gold wear through on the back sides of the lugs and edges of the case. If it is a snap back case, look for blade damage during opening...if a screw off case back, look for tool marks. Look for blemishes on the dial and hands and see if it needs a crown and/or crystal. Also figure a few bucks for a new strap and spring bars if it does not have a metal bracelet. An average unsigned gold plated or gold filled link type bracelet adds very little value if any while a stretch bracelet adds nothing and usually damages the insides of the lugs. A good condition signed bracelet will add maybe 25% to the value of the watch...a leather strap usually adds nothing. The cal 285 is a simple movement to work on and a reasonable service cost would be $75 to $100 USD/100 to 135 CAD. A 'high street' repair shop may charge twice as much...but you get 'free' Cappuccino.

It is very easy to get upside down in this type of watch. Longines is considered a higher grade watch brand but you can get basically the same thing in a Benrus or Bulova for $15 USD/20 CAD at a yard sale or flea market.

The bottom line is gold filled watches are not hot right now (a stainless steel example would go higher)...plus it will cost close to as much to service the watch as it is worth.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Longines_285

http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=125&From=USD&To=CAD

The bracelet looks good!

The clasp blade that connects to the clasp cap is not original so you might change it out with a signed part for a better look. The cut down end of the clasp blade should be a little less than 8mm, the slot on the other blade is approximately 8mm, and the blades are about 15.5mm wide. If the tab on the clasp blade that fits into the slot on the other blade is worn down to much less than 7.5mm or so, the fit might be loose but still Ok.

The connecting pin should be loose in the blade tab and tight in the slotted blade. You can pinch the ends of the cap fork to tighten the ends and it is better not to make any crimping marks at all on it like the slotted blade now shows. Brass lined pliers are good for this.

Example of brass lined pliers...eBay item number  190672634204

Back in time...

http://s235.photobucket.com/user/watch_david/library/?sort=3&page=1

There once was a watch guy named David...

who once sold cases to the enslaved.

The longer he lasted...

the more he got blasted...

and now he is surely long gone.

But a question remains...

amongst all the pains.

Was he be right...

or be Wong?

A poem...not by Henry Gibson.