automatico

"Luthier, is this a Gen or Rep...If Rep...Where did you purchase?"

This thread is a year and a half old and the outcome was never stated. The watch pictured does not show the case side profile or if it has lug holes or not...it might be just a standard DJ case with MG dial.

The genuine 1019 has flat case sides like a submariner and the 38mm case is bigger than an older DJ with lug holes. The 28.8/9mm 1019 dial is bigger in diameter than a DJ dial and will not fit a 36mm DJ case. The 1019 is not an easy watch to copy with the parts that are available. The Yuki kit (the one made for a genuine rolex mvt) is not super accurate to an original but everything fits and by the time you gather up all the parts, the Yuki kit might have been cheaper.

A DJ case will not make a very accurate 1019 especially if it does not have lug holes. I have seen a couple made from 36mm DJ cases and they did not look very good at all. If the latest oyster perpetual is 38mm +/- it might work but the case sides need to be flattened and lug holes drilled...quite a job.

A 1016 is a lot easier.

The 'case neck' where the crystal fits is supposed to be 28.2mm outside diameter...if genuine spec. Where the trouble begins (assuming the neck is 28.2mm) is with crystals and crystal retainer bezels (inner bezels). Almost every aftmkt number 19 crystal is different, some will fit and some will not. Besides that, some case makers may have a genspec case neck and use an odd spec crystal along with an odd spec inner bezel. This equals trouble as there is no telling who might have a suitable replacement crystal.

I found only one brand of aftmkt crystal that is always the same...GS. Unbranded crystals from supply houses and internet sellers may be the same from batch to batch or not. The catch is GS 19 crystals come in three sizes:  PA 462-66 (30.45mm)   PA 462-67 (30.48mm)    PA 46220A (30.30m), more if you count the 'hi dome' models.   You also will need a precision digital caliper, not a HK cheapie. Last but not least...you need a good crystal press with metal dies and develop a 'feel' for the proper fit. After you press the inner bezel down over the crystal (assuming it 'feels' right) take a 10x loupe and a bright light and look closely all the way around the crystal skirt for cracks by looking down through the sidewall of the crystal. If the inner bezel was too tight, the sidewall of the crystal will crack but it may not show without a close look.

After you know what size and brand of crystal will fit your case/inner bezel combo you can go from there. My advice is to find what fits and buy at least three if you plan to keep the watch. Btw, it's not cheap or easy if the first few crystals do not fit so maybe you will be lucky and hit a good combo first or second try. I have maybe 30 assorted number 19 crystals from genuine to Sternkreuz, GS, Best Fit, Clark, ST etc and have tried them all on various projects. I remember on one of my MBK '5513' projects I ended up with an ST/Clark bezel kit (same thing) and a GS crystal (?? on the p/n). The original MBK inner bezel would fit the GS crystal but the rotating bezel was not a good fit on the inner bezel etc, etc so I went to the ST/Clark kit. So far, so good.

I posted a full dose of what to expect because it sounded like you wanted the watch to be water resistant.

Crystals:   http://www.ofrei.com/page419.html

"My friend bought a new 1803 in 1969. Price  $999.00  On sale $895. LOL That was a lot for a watch."

I spent all my $$ on cars in 1969 and stayed broke. Paying $999 for a watch was out of the question because $999 would buy a slick original '55, '56, or '57 Chevrolet. Bought a new watch from a rolex AD in 1972 and iirc a yellow Prez was around $1200 and a tt DJ was around $650 or so. I bought a steel DJ and they discounted it, gave me a bracelet, and no sales tax. Back then they would do just about anything to sell a watch. The store sold rolex, GP. omega, Longines and a few others plus Atmos clocks.

Bargains...a jewelry store in town decided to go 100% quartz in the late 1980s and they called and asked if I wanted to buy all their left over stock, mech watch parts, cleaning machines etc. I went over and they had all the watches laid out on a long table. The new mechanical watches were almost all lady styles (they already had a sale on mech watches) but all the trade-ins and watches they had repaired and not picked up were included. I offered $300 for it all and they loaded it up...close to 400 watches including a few Accutrons, Compatrons, Longines, Ball (Trainmaster), Bulova, Wittnauer, Wyler, Zodiac, Seiko, Hamilton, Elgin, Benrus etc. All the cleaning machines, Accutron microscope, tools, parts etc were an extra $100. The only brands they have now are Seiko, Citizen, and a few Timex (all quartz) last time I was in the store.

Bargains like that are very hard to find today because of the internet (eBay, sale forums etc).

As for a new rolex Prez...if they stopped selling they would probably be down to $12k or $15k in a few years. After all, minus all the hype they are just $2k or $3K in gold, a $500 movement, $100 dial, $50 crown, $40 crystal, and a shiny wooden box.

Here's how I feel about it and it ain't pretty.  I'm in no way dissin' the OP, just the thought of a $35k or $50k watch.

"What is the opinion on this new Rolex?"

It's just one more step toward rolex being a jewelry company instead of a watch company. I started reading the review and dozed off.  

"Beside the movement."

Movement is a no go, it's not a 1520/30/60/70.  Call me simple but D&D = more stuff to screw with now and break after the warranty runs out.

"I would get one in platinum which gets the price around a hefty 50.000."

Call me cynical but one troy ounce of platinum costs less than one troz of gold.  Gold-oro $1234.  Platy-oh! $984. (4-15-2016)  Rolex groupies claim it cost a LOT more to make a Prez out of platinum than gold because it eats up tool bits...Ha!  Next they will be claiming platinum is harder than their hallowed 904L steeeel aka 'license to steal'.

Btw, a dealer will skin about $20k off of a buyer on a platinum Prez. That's a lot of $$ for the Devil's Own Handshake and a 'free' cappuccino.  Just sayin'.

All BS aside...the truth is a $30 to $50k gold watch is a hard sell on a replica watch forum. Many members are where they are (good shape financially) by not buying crap like this. The only upside to a rolex Prez compared to other high priced swisscrud (18k gold AP Roy Oakie, Pateeek Naughty Naut, Cartier Ugly Le Mutt etc) is the rolex might be worth a bit more than the others in 20 years.

I'm tryin' to be nice here. Call me nice, don't gimme hell.    

Proof of nice:

"I like the Yellow Gold, harkens back to the older "classic" DayDates."

Yep the 1803 etc were classics all right. 

Except for their cheapo hollow bracelet links and hollered out cases    Hollered is close kin to wallered.  If you don't believe me, ask JMB.

"I reckon if they be from South of the Mason-Dixon line they will!"

One thing for sure...it ain't near as bad as 'wallered out'.

They ain't gonna know what 'wallered' means.  

I wonder how much actual difference there is between a $1450 Phong 16610 case and a 'TC Submariner Watch Case Kit' besides the price?

Just asking.  

"Heat up that area..."

+1

Heating the area helps a LOT.

You might try a piece of hard wood tapered with flats cut on it first. You never know, maybe the wood will snag the threads and turn them out with no risk of damage. I have also used a brass rod sharpened and fluted like a broach. A steel file, broach, or tap is my last resort.

Something else you could try is cut a tap short enough to start from inside the case and maybe cut the old tube out. The tap will start straight in the clean threads. It will kill a $$ tap but is a 'not too much risk' method. I bought some 3.0mm x .35mm taps made in Bosnia that only cost $5 each...maybe you can find some cheapo taps somewhere. I ordered mine from a nut/bolt/tool outfit years ago.

BTW here are the taps for $5.40 each:

http://www.victornet.com/tools/Metric-Taps/139.html

I made up a '1016' in a 16220 case and used an Eta 2846 with a 'Stilty' spacer and it was a drop in fit. The 2846 is the same as a 2836 in size and the hour wheel, cp etc is a little bit longer than a 2824 so it looks good with ample space between the hour hand and dial. I used a rolex 1570 spec aftmkt dial and removed the dial feet and stuck the dial to the spacer with dial dots. If you use a regular brass spacer like comes in many replicas with a dial with no feet, it is not as easy because the Stilty spacer has a dial mounting surface at the top so the dial mounts to the spacer, not the flimsy calendar spacer on the movement.

I made some spacers starting out with brass flat washers 31.5mm OD x 14.25mm ID x .2.3mm thick or SAE equivalent. They cost about 75 cents each...beats buying a Yuki spacer for $50 but you need a lathe. Precision spacers make these jobs a hellofalot easier.

http://www.yukiwatch.com/catalog/item/7518423/7999848.htm

From 10-20-15

The spacer ring you will need depends on the case and movement to be used. Many standard brass spacers used in replicas are 29.15mm od x 26.05mm id x 2.35mm thick...plus or minus a hair or two. I also have one that is 29.15mm id x 25.6mm id x 1.65mm thick but do not remember what movement/case combo it was used in. You can thin the standard spacer rings down to the thickness needed by sanding them down on 'wet or dry' sandpaper placed on a sheet of glass etc under running water using maybe 180 to thin it down and put a smoother finish on it with 400 or 600.

My Stilty Spacer for Eta 2836/46 is stepped on the outside...28.5mm on the back side and 27.45mm on the dial side. It is stepped inside as well...25.5mm opposite the 27.45 cut and 26.0mm opposite the 28.5mm cut x 2.25mm thick. This spacer can be sanded thinner for a no date movement if needed. I used one when putting an Eta 2846 in a genuine 162xx case to make a '1016' and it worked perfectly. The picture above shows the spacer used with a 1680 dial that would be 26.5mm so a spacer like I have may need to be cut down for this combination. Mine worked fine in the '1016' because the dial is bigger in diameter than a 1680.

The standard replica spacer is usually a good fit on an Eta movement and a little bit loose inside the average replica case (depending on the case). The Stilty spacer is precision made and is a very good fit when using an Eta 28xx in a genuine rolex case. I have an MBK '5513' case with a rolex 1520 in it and am going to put an Eta 2846 in it later using a Stilty Spacer. It may be a few months but I will post how it went on this thread. Keep in mind that all MBK 5513/1680 cases are the same and made for an Eta 2836 so a genuine 1530 base rolex date movement will fit but a no date movement will not unless you use a genuine spec calendar spacer and date movement center wheel, canon pinion, and hour wheel.

https://rwg.cc/topic/116411-yuki-eta-2824-adaptor

"I believe the feet position of the 1016 is different from the dj and pres."

The dial foot position on 1530 base 1016 and DJ/OPD/subs etc are all the same. The 1530 base Prez dial (1803 etc) does not have dial feet but snaps on the main plate...the Prez movement plate does have dial foot holes just like any 1530 base movement.

Here is a good picture of the back of a snap on 1803 dial:  eBay item number  331133548081

The old rolex 1550, 15505 etc had solid gold bezels and about 80 to 100 microns of gold in the cap on the case. They will go 25+ years without wear through or until some Bozo gouges or polishes through it. The plated case in question otoh probably does not have a lot of gold on it and I do not get the '78%' either...maybe 78 microns? That would be Ok. The USA standard for 'gold filled' was/is 1/20 gold by weight = 5% gold (GF = a LOT more than average gold plating) and there is not much gold on a gold filled case if you melt it off.

A genuine cartier 'vermeil' tank watch is 20 microns gold plating over Sterling silver and they will last for quite a few years but they do not have many sharp edges. The average gold plated Raymond Weil, Movado etc may have 10 micron plating and if it is 20 microns or more they will usually brag about it by marking the case somewhere...'20µ plaque' etc. Twenty (20) microns = 20/1000mm. Not a whole lot.

I have a 21 jewel automatic AP dress watch replica in a rose gold plate over stainless steel case and iirc they went for around $90...probably lightly plated though. I am skeptical of a plated replica for $800+, even with a MY 9015 in it, but that's just me. Otoh, if you really like the watch and the plating/overlay turns out to be a lot thicker than normal and lasts for 10 or 15 years, you would have no complaint.

This is none of my beeswax but imho the MBW/MBK cases are pretty close to genuine to start with. I would not have one modified but many do...and that is their business. How much they pay is also their business.

To me, this badly bent 'hobby' is meant to save $$. One way for me to save $$ is not to have a case modified that is pretty close to begin with.

My other peeve is 'aging' watches...I just wear them and they age quick enough. Btw, an artificially aged watch will hardly ever sell for as much as an unaltered example. Compare the value of an original MBW 5512/13/1680 that has been worn for a couple years with one that may be newer but with the edges ground down and intentional nicks/scratches all over it.

Restoring bevels and shaping crown guards is another story because it is one way to correct common faults, but it must be done correctly. We are lucky to have members good enough to work on bevels on high value cases and shape/weld crown guards etc and from what I have seen, these guys do better work than the 'professionals' who restore high $$ genuine watches. If you want the best job, find someone who has mastered a certain skill for a hobby, not someone who has to do it every day for a living.

"Who knows how long or high the prices will go?"

My guess is until the next world wide depression or when most of the 'Baby Boomer' age people die out. Depression causes prices to drop because buyers are low on $$ or decide to wait until prices get very low compared to pre recession prices. Baby Boomers want what they had when they were young or what they wanted and could not afford when they were young...thereby making vintage cars, motorcycles, watches, classic furniture etc today's Hot Items. 

Something else that might have an effect on the vintage rolex market is 'pollution'. Pollution = when many of the vintage Hot Dog rolex watches are 'polluted' with replica parts...but only if the parts can be detected in a percentage large enough to upset the market. If these parts are good enough to pass inspection, they will just be added to the mix of 'nos' or 'like new' parts. I would say a fair amount of 'high class' pollution is already taking place, most of it undetected.

One more example:   http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/thread/1459791914/last-1459797356/View+All

Meanwhile I am holding on to a '57 Hamilton Electric Van Horn, waiting for it to 'Go Hot'. Looks like it's gonna be a long wait. Wanted a Ventura but they cost too much. Paid $40 for the VH in June 1994.

Here's what a VH looks like:   http://unwindintime.com/page4.php?view=productPage&product=20

"Beware of the clasp, mine broke very easily."

I call them 'Breakaway' clasps. I had one break first time out and have a modern Exp I with the hinge made in this fashion and afraid to wear it. They should make the hinge mounts and blade in one piece. Iirc rwc had to eat a bunch of them along with ceramic bezel inserts for the first few years. Maybe still eating them. 

Not much of a way to laser weld them together because it would have to be welded outside the contact area and would leave an 'unsightly' bead. That is probably why they solder them together.

As for genuine stuff...I ran out of $$ before rolex 'went modern' and stayed with vintage. I guess there is a lot to be said for sheet metal clasps and aluminum inserts.

"...I read somewhere that the fumes from super glue can sometimes mess with stuff. How exactly?"

It will raise fingerprints on movements, dials, crystals etc until the glue is dry and the fumes go away. It also dries so fast it sets up before you can get parts placed exactly where you want them. Besides that, the stuff travels like water and can go where it is not wanted in a split second.

You put a little bitty drop on the back of a dial (around the marker foot sticking through the dial) to hold a marker in place and it will go through the hole in the dial and out on the front side in a nanosecond. You put a drop on a stem and it sets up before you get the crown screwed all the way down on the stem. You unknowingly get it on a finger and get stuck to the first thing you touch.  Ask me how I know.  

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/message/1460157512/FS-+1973+Rolex+Submariner+1680+Red+MK4+on+9315+Bracelet

Ten k buys a dial, movement, case back, and a clasp.

The lug holes at the bottom right and top left are almost to the top of the lugs from grinding/polishing leaving no room for bevels.   The bracelet is just about worn out.   Overall condition of the case is around 75%, not much corrosion though.   The crown guards are getting thin etc, etc.  

Ten years ago a watch in this condition with a regular dial might bring $2000/$2500. It looks like ruff-ruff watches with hot rod dials have hit The Big Time.

It's insanity. My DW cased beaters look better. I used to worry about the rounded sides on DW cases and no bevels but I am seeing more and more genuine examples that look just like them from being worn and polished, and polished, and polished...

It won't be long until I can wear a DW in the daytime...with short sleeves.  

First class work.

You might be able to ID the movement by going to the 'Chinese Mechanical watches' forum on WUS and dig around until you find this movement discussed. The movement is common in $30+/- watches and may be made by different China factories. I have owned a few and they are fairly accurate and reliable as long as they are clean and have a little oil here and there.

I just now looked in my parts box and found two of these movements in 'pot metal' case DJ look-alike watches that go for around $25. I had a 'pot metal' tutone omega smp replica a couple weeks back with a dial similar to the one in the picture but it had a Seagull ST16 in it. The ST16 is quite a bit higher in the pecking order than the movement pictured but cheap none the less...unless they are branded 'Claro Semag'.

'Pot metal' = common term for cast metal of some sort, aka 'ufo metal'. When the plating wears away (in a day or two) the bare metal looks a lot like a weathered 1950s automobile hood ornament after the chrome plating blistered off. 'High grade' pot metal usually = brass. Many have skin rash reactions to 'ufo metal'.

'Base metal' can be anything from ufo pot metal to stainless steel with plating applied over it. I used to see 14k solid yellow gold watches that had been plated with rhodium or white gold so the 14k gold case could also be termed 'base metal' in this instance. Matter of fact, I have a quartz diamond dial Lucien Piccard mans watch that is 14k white gold and was plated with yellow gold. I had it 'reverse plated' to remove the yellow gold plating and it looks fine. Btw, Lucien Piccard gold watches are still a relative bargain as no one seems to like them very much. I bought a 14k yellow LP 'Sea Shark' automatic on a leather strap that looks like new a while back for $110.

http://www.watchfreeks.com/115-watch-movements/3864-claro-semag-cl-888-a.html

From my experience, the best way to solidly mount a dial with no feet on an Eta 28xx is to use a spacer that:  1 - fits around the movement with little or no side to side movement  2 - fits snugly inside the inner diameter of the case with little or no slop  3 - can be used with case clamps and screws  4 - rises above the top of the movement and eliminates the original el cheapo thin, flexy calendar spacer. The dial can be held in place by 'dial dots' during assembly and the case clamps/screws will hold it all firmly in place.

Where to find such a spacer? The CNC made 'Stilty Spacer' was the best but Stilty has gone south (or north). This leaves other custom made spacers and Yuki has them but they are pricey. For a first class project there are few $hortcut$ though.

Here are the dimensions of a rolex 16220, 1016, 5512/13 spec case to Eta 2836/46 Stilty Spacer:  OD = 28.5mm with a step down to 27.45mm about half way down the outside edge on the dial side.  ID =  25.6mm with a step out to 26.0mm on the dial side about half way down the inside wall. Thick = 2.2mm.  A spacer like this will allow an Eta 2846 with no date works or spacer to be mounted in a 5512/13 or 1016 spec case with the correct dial. Remember that MBK cases are basically rolex 1680 spec inside but most will have 5513 size 26.0mm dial openings no matter what reference number so spacers etc will be different sizes.

The Stilty Spacer specs above are from the spacer I used in a '1016' project with a genuine 16220 case, Eta 2846, and genuine spec dial with feet removed. No flimsy oem Eta calendar spacer was used.  The 16220 case inside dimensions are about the same as the inside of a genuine rolex 5512/13.

Before I put the Eta 2846 in the 16220 case in 2008, I put a rolex no date 1570 (without any calendar parts or spacer and with low profile no date center wheel/cp, hour wheel etc) in a 16220 with a genuine 1016 dial in 1997 and it all went together with no hassle at all. This was before RWG, Stilty Spacers etc and the watch that the movement came in only cost $450 back then...a rolex 1505 opd with tt bracelet.

Stilty Spacer   https://rwg.cc/topic/116411-yuki-eta-2824-adaptor           https://rwg.cc/topic/74384-noobmarniner-movement#comment-453732

Yuki spacer info   https://yukiwatch.ecwid.com/#!/ETA-adaptor-set/c/6702300

The Frankenwatch guys on here have put quite a few of these together...but they look better.

The description sounds like a lawyer with a mail order degree wrote it... "has many added parts"   "could be critically described as a rebuild"   "all of the parts are NOT period correct"   "the watch has good value"   "Do not purchase and then act surprised that the watch is NOT all period original"   But the crown is original and wp so no worries.

Here is what MO lawyers look like...   .

"Why did RSC mess with the crown guards? I don't get that."

Imho most of their current batch of drones simply can not do very good work. They supposedly have machines to contour case sides/tops/bevels but probably do the crown guards by hand. I would not trust them with anything vintage worth much $$ at all...maybe an old 1500 that fell into the meat grinder at the sausage factory. Since they have a cod lock on dials, cases, and bracelets, owners have no choice when they need something in this category. 

What gets me is most of the dedicated rolexophiles will defend this 'official rolex' case destruction..."as long as rsc does it, it is Ok with me, no matter how bad it is". I guess if someone raised enough hell about a botch job like the watch above, they might comp them a '444' case making the watch worth not much more than the average Frankenstein. The next evening one of the drones would stick the botched case in his pocket and take it home to be joined with the original COMEX dial he changed out a while back 'because the tritium was flaking off'...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cod%20lock

I have drilled a few cases for valves and it was not too hard to do but it is nerve wracking. After finally locating where I wanted the valve (not as easy as it sounds) I mounted the case in a miniature Sherline milling machine and drilled the smaller hole all the way through followed by the larger hole/valve seat. I use the milling machine because it feeds the drill by a feed screw as opposed to the unregulated hand wheel/spokes on a regular drill press. I drilled all the way through the case so the valve shaft would have plenty of material in the case for a secure fit and so I could knock the valve out from the inside if needed.

The smaller hole is not too hard to drill but the larger outside hole/valve seat is not as easy because it needs to be a certain depth. The angle of the cutting end of the drill is probably not the same as the oem valve seat but the rubber O ring will seal up Ok if you choose to go with a working valve. If you want to polish the valve seat you can use a small wooden dowel with polishing compound on the tip and spin it in a drill etc. If it was mine, I would go with a non working valve because it solves a few problems:  1 - No spring groove to cut on the end of the valve.  2 - No inner leaf spring to fabricate.  3 - No leaking O ring problems.  4 - No need to fly cut a relief inside the case to make room for the valve spring.

I drilled a couple older cartel cases for valves and did not make the valves until after I drilled the smaller hole and valve seat. By making the valve after the holes are drilled, I could make the valve shaft to be a light press fit into the hole in the case. I did not use an O ring on the non operating valves but tapered the underside of the valve head to match the valve seat angle as close as I could get it and used non hardening 'Three Bond' sealer on the valve shaft and seat. It sealed past 100 psi (about 7atm).

I do not take in any work because I have more than enough projects of my own and because I do not want to take a chance on damaging someone's case etc...I only screw up my own stuff.  

Btw...I would probably go with a Yuki case if using a genuine movement but would try to go with a lower cost case if using an Eta etc. Phong cases are fine but at twice the cost of a Yuki case they are not for me.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=7&step=2&top_cat=1

dtm: "Seen plenty of frankens on reputable gen sites, but they are frankens comprised of all genuine parts."

Imho a watch made up of all genuine parts is not a Frankenstein (maybe an 'undocumented alien'  Ha!). I have owned quite a few genuine rolex watches in the past and had papers for maybe 20% of them. The rest could all have been made from parts as far as I know...but they were 100% genuine. I figure as long as they are 'catalog items' (no Explorer dials in DJ cases etc) and 100% genuine, they are legit. One good thing about vintage Frankenstein 1016/5512/13/1680 etc is that it is harder to pin down what exact band/dial combo came on these watches so there is a lot of leeway to mix and match parts.

About 20 years ago there were assorted tutone rolex 16013, 16233 etc with various dial flavors for sale everywhere and many sellers swapped the best dials/movements into the best cases with the best bracelets to be able to sell them for more $$. With no papers there was no way to tell which movement came in what case so they could make guarantees of being 'all genuine' but no guarantees or claims of originality ('originality' being exactly the same as it came out of the factory). There were also hundreds (thousands probably) of steel quick set DJ changed over to tutone using genuine and aftmkt parts because tt was hot back then. I would probably have to call a steel watch converted to tutone with all genuine parts a Frankenstein because they are not a catalog item but a conversion using aftmkt parts would require a lower class designation of some sort imho. Back then all these conversions were called 'bastard watches'. Swapping parts was common practice before the internet made secrets hard to keep and now a steel DJ will go for as much or more than a tt example so not much of this takes place.

After looking at rolojack's super finestein '1016' and a few others for sale I thought I would say that what used to be a scorned hobby may be becoming more of an accepted (but not yet respected) 'art' of a sort. I know that publicly, no card carrying VRF etc member would be caught doa wearing a Frankenstein rolex (with his pants pulled down) but these watches are getting too good to hide and/or ignore.

Maybe there will soon be a category for these watches other than the common term Fake! that all the rolex purist squeal when they see one (while peeing down their leg). I have a few F-steins that I wear now and then and I will say that I really like them because other than the genuine movement (mine are 1530 base), the watch is not too expensive and gets me into the vintage realm for not much $$. I still have a few all genuine rolex watches but hardly ever wear one because, well...I just do not like them as much as one I put together myself. Besides that, there is no way I would pay $6 or $7 thou' for a ratty 5513 with a corroded all to hell case, splotchy dial, and worn out bracelet.

If there was some way to keep them from being sold as genuine after we pass them on, I think they might be more or less accepted (maybe) in a few years after the genuine stuff gets too expensive to wear or repair. I know that many of what we call 'Frankensteins' are put together to be sold to buyers walking sideways as 'all genuine' but this is out of my control. If anyone does not believe Frankensteins have gone mainstream, just go to a NAWCC etc watch show and look around.

Any comments?

It is easy to find what you want after you decide on what style case, dial, and bracelet you want to go with...dive style, mil style etc. You can buy them ready made or have someone put one together for you.

I have put a few of these watches together using unsigned replica rolex cases/bracelets with swiss eta movements, unsigned dials, aftmkt case tubes/crowns, crystals etc. They usually end up costing $250 to $350 but the labor is free because I do it myself. Paying to have a watch made can double the price.

Last week I put one together and here is what I used with approximate prices:   Fresh c/o genuine swiss Eta 2836 made up from left over parts, except I used a clone autowind assembly just to see how it holds up...$100USD.   Sterile replica 'no hole' 16200 style DJ case with GS PA 464-64C crystal (rolex 22)...$50 including stainless spring bars and new gaskets. The bezel had to be machined to work with the GS crystal.   ST case tube and generic 6.0mm crown...$15.   Brass movement spacer, clamps, and screws...$12.   Sterile explorer I type no date dial from Raffles Time with Eta dial feet...$15.   Mercedes hands from replica Eta submariner...$5.   Jubilee type bracelet with screws in removable links from International Watchman...$25   Hoods with soldered tubes...$15.   Unsigned flip lock clasp without dive extension with new rivet tube...$10.   Total of about $250. Same type of watch ready made from established seller with new swiss Eta will go for around $450/$500, maybe more.   

I went with an acrylic crystal and bracelet with hoods for a semi vintage look but would rather had a case with spring bar holes all the way through the lugs. The etaclone autowind assembly works fine but is nosier than a genuine assembly. I will leave it on the movement and see how it goes. The 'checker board' design on the oyster style clasp cap goes Ok with the jubilee style bracelet, I had doubts at first but it looks Ok (to me anyway).