kanerich

Neither your post (and certainly not Nanuk's) was the sole basis for my rant. Nanuk's situation in particular, where dealers incorrectly point out a "flaw" does not even fall into the category of bashing salespeople, it just reminded me of the many posts that do. I really should have made that more clear and I apologize for getting on the soap box. Nevertheless, there are literally dozens of "I fooled somebody I'm so psyched" posts, and "salespeople (oh let's not forget, gen owners) are so dumb let's pat ourselves on the back" posts, and to me they rank up there with "who has the best sub" in terms of played out subjects. It's like a high school kid posting "hey I drank some alcohol and it had an intoxicating effect and I had the best time at the party!" Really, you don't say. But hey, you were just trying to share, I said my piece on this subject in general, so let's go back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Since the Japanese website is still up and running, he's probably fine. Let's face it, unless ETAhonpo had something really unique (like the 1st gen 187) nobody was going to pay more to buy from Ken instead of Josh or EL for the same stuff. He probably wasn't getting enough business to make maintaining an English site worth his while.

I agree completely. The number of posts of this nature indicates there are a lot of people who seem to think that it's some kind of incredible accomplishment to not get called out. You SHOULDN'T be called out. If you pay $200-300 for a rep and it can't pass a casual look-over 90% of the time then that's a pretty lousy replica. Also, most people simply aren't on guard regarding fake watches other than Rolexes. Factor in also that people, especially salespeople, have nothing to gain by antagonizing a stranger. If you are not wearing something like a gaudy TT Daytona, chances are 1) people can't detect your fake 2) never even try and 3) wouldn't throw it in your face even if they could. Also, I know this isn't a popular viewpoint on this board but I have to say it anyway. Being a rep collector or a WIS doesn't mean jack, good or bad. It doesn't make you handsomer, classier, smarter, or more worthy of respect than anyone else. It's just something you're into, like fantasy sports or stamp collecting. I don't know why it gives people such a superiority complex. Specifically, a lot of members talk like every luxury watch salesperson has to be a walking reference book on every watch of every make ever made, or else they are utterly beneath contempt. I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, we've all seen dozens of posts disparaging "stupid" salespeople. Let it rest, they're just people doing a job. Why should they be expected to possess more knowledge than the job requires? A lot of them care and know a lot, a lot of them are in it just for the paycheck. Some of them are obnoxious jerks, but most of them just want to make a few bucks with minimum drama, go home and watch TV and drink a beer. That's true in every walk of life and every profession and if you weren't a WIS you'd think nothing of it. No doubt those people care about something and know more about it than you do, would you want them to think that makes you a joke? It reminds me of Star Trek geeks who belittle the actors who were actually in the movies because they don't know as much about Star Trek esoterica as they do. Yeah, that is a LOT cooler. Be happy you have a hobby you like, let it go at that. Being into reps or knowing about watches doesn't give you the right to disrespect anybody for the mere sin of being unexceptional at what they do.

Thanks Rob, as always your contributions to the board are invaluable. I think I'll take a pass on the Portuguese!

This is an understandable concern. However, as far as I can tell By-Tor and Pugwash mostly concentrate on "good new stuff" that are of a certain production quality that pretty much all the dealers stock without much variance, so it seems unlikely this would be a major problem as a practical matter. And they know better than to declare a watch crapola because the one watch they get has problems. Any given rep can have QC issues and that's not necessarily a reason to [censored] a given watch or a dealer -- anyone who doesn't operate from that presumption shouldn't be dispensing advice on this board. That's not a problem for these guys. I agree with other posters that I generally am not tempted to buy a rep that's not on my radar already based on one or two reviews, no matter the detail -- in all honesty if 20 members I know to be hardcore collectors post one sentence just saying "X is the best damn rep I've ever owned " I find that more compelling. Any time you can get it, there's something to be said about the collective wisdom of a knowledgeable crowd. Still, these guides are a helpful and interesting resource, and invaluable for people getting into the hobby.

Gen is indeed ti. http://www.paneristi.com/reference/vendome...meframeset.html

Rob did the relume on my 005 and 183 -- absolutely flawless on both, and a bargain at twice the price. But don't double your prices Rob! I mean it as a figure of speech . . .

Like most people, $200-300 is what I'd like to spend out of the box for a high-quality rep that I'm happy with. I might get some mods done should I want particular favorites closer to gen, but in general with all the good reps out there lately, the enjoyment per dollar isn't there for me once the price tag spirals upwards of $300. I've put $500+ into a several of my reps but I wouldn't want to do it on a regular basis.

My 212 is my favorite pam rep, it gets more wrist time than my modded 005 that's cosmetically more accurate. I don't own a 253 (why bother when I already have such a similar model), but it's hard for me to imagine it would be more of a pleasure to own than a 212.

1 - Bought two together, Omega Moonwatch and 16610 ETA Sub (I know, how typical can you get) 2 - Abay 3 - Kind of. The Moonwatch I still have, and I wear it all the time. As for the Sub, I had DaytonaT put a bezel insert and cut down the CG's, but after about a year the hands ate the dial (I know, bizarre, but it happens over time if the alignment is bad). I didn't want to waste my investment, so I bought a new Sub for $109 and reused the old case. But I've been kind of annoyed about having to do that, so I rarely wear this watch now.

That's not going to help . . . the hole in the bezel insert for the pearl itself is clearly drilled off-center. What your talking about only applies to moving the entire bezel insert, not the pearl. Ask King for a new bezel insert. If she won't give you one, buy one (you can get one on ebay for as little as $10) and go with a different dealer next time. I'm sure it must have been disappointing, but even with the very best dealers you get a flawed rep now and then.

Something cheap and quartz. Trying to impress people in a foreign country, especially a still-developing one, is pure silliness unless you're there specifically there to meet with clients or something. A tourist or student with a fancy watch might as well put a sign around his neck that says "hey, I'm a foreigner who thinks he's a big shot, please rip me off." A fake fancy watch . . . that's just dumb. You're begging to get shook down for money you don't even have. However, you might pack a Rolex if it is likely that a rich Chinese friend will show you the Shanghai nightlife. Just make sure it's a damn good one, and that you're not stuck with the tab at the end of the night.

Too bad, my wife probably would insisted I buy it then!

We should start a list of watches that seem great in theory, aren't terribly flawed or anything . . . but don't do much for you once you get it. I nominate the Yachtmaster, the Santos 100 and the FM Conquistador (well, pretty much any FM, rep or gen).

Yes, unfortunately. I got a Santos 100 TT from EL a while back, convinced myself I didn't like it because of the cheap strap, bought a $175 custom strap from Aaron Tan (gorgeous btw), finally figured out how to install it (pin and mallet, just like Omega bracelets - Thanks Ubi!) and then realized "you know, I just don't really like this watch on me."

Yes, although some people call it "retaining value," which is considered a good thing. If you only like reps this is certainly the right forum for it, but it seems to me that a clean, used Omega for less than half the MSRP is about as fair a deal as gens get. And considering replicas using Swiss 7750's of uncertain provenance (King was selling watches with 1980's vintage 17-jewel 7750's earlier this year as I recall -- NOS? refurbished? who knows?) can go for up to $900, an extra $100 for a gen hardly seems hideously overpriced IMO.

This is a nice looking piece. Neil isn't saying or showing anything that isn't entirely on the up and up, and as with any rep people should make their own call regarding they want to buy it or not. If a member wants to compare this rep with others like it offered by other dealers, that's certainly a productive exercise but it seems to me that as a matter of courtesy that should be its own topic. Just my two cents . . .

Thanks for the advice! Actually I did get the watch from EL but while there are lug holes, the bars do not have screwdriver slots as in those pictures, so screwing them out is not an option. I don't know why this disparity exists, but sucks for me. Anyway, I just heard from Aaron, and he tells me I should take the watch to a watchsmith as the straps have to be pounded out with a mallet and pin, there is no easy way to remove them as with most watches.

I got Aaron Tan to make me a custom strap for my Santos 100 rep, which I rarely wore because the somewhat crummy looking OEM strap turned me off. So I get the strap (which is beautiful btw, as is the tree lizard strap he made for my Pams) and have realized after much fiddling that I have no idea whatsoever how to replace the strap on this particular watch. Research on the internet has only turned up that the straps are not designed to be easily interchanged. I'm stumped. Could anyone help out? Thanks!

I don't necessarily assume reps will last forever, or even particularly long. But if a rep lasts five years, as far as I'm concerned it's given more than enough enjoyment to justify its cost. We live in a disposable society after all. What will my PSP, iPod, laptop etc. be worth in a couple of years?

There never was a sunken date problem with this particular rep, Asian or Swiss. The date font does look a lot better though, and the dial appears to have the proper beveling around the date window which looks nice. The old Asian 7750 Navi fighters rep (which I have) don't have this detail, which makes them look a bit cheap. I don't know if there's a big market at this pricing but I think it's always admirable when a dealer tries to put out the best possible product. If Honpo can sell out a $750 watch with an Asian 7750 (the old 187) I certainly think there's room for a Swiss 7750 rep for a bit more.

Here is an excellent review of the Seiko Black Monster (I have an Orange Monster), especially of the 7S26 movement. IMO (and others) you cannot buy a better watch than the Seiko Monster at its price point, rep or gen. http://www.thepurists.com/watch/features/8...7s26/index.html However, like crystalcranium, I'm not really sure what it is you're trying to say. Do people here prefer $150 reps to $150 Seikos? As far as I can tell, probably. This is a rep collectors' forum. Here's the website you want to visit if you want the opposing point of view: http://www.pmwf.com/cgi-bin/Forum/webbbs_config.cgi Lots of people here have low to mid end gens, reps, and high end gens . . . so it's not that we're all blind to the merits of gens and reps of all prices. The relative merits of reps vs. high end gens vs. low to mid end gens (Hamilton, Tissot, Seiko auto, Zeno, O&W, etc.) have probably been debated dozens of times on this board. It's not exactly a revelation that Seiko and others make good, inexpensive watches (as well as excellent, expensive watches). Mechanical watches, no matter how expensive, are put on the trailer by quartz, and the atomic wave watches make both irrelevant from a timekeeping standpoint. It's not ignorance of these facts that causes us to buy reps. We know all of these things, they're just not very relevant points to any issue at hand. You may as well go on a website for fans of vintage muscle cars and point out that a Honda Civic Si could smoke most of their cars, get twice the gas mileage, pollute less, have more air bags, etc., and then get mad that the other members don't seem all that awestruck or grateful to receive this information. It's just not news or even a newish topic for discussion.

Standard black Sub bezel insert. Quality is fine, better than CN Subs, not as good as gen. But then I think it cost something like $10 so expecting the latter wouldn't be realistic. The pearl is pretty good.

Part of the benefit of buying a legal good is that you have companies at every level of the distribution chain that stand behind the product and warrant a certain level of quality for the price the end user pays. Buying from Wal-Mart and not Wo-Mart also gives you a certain amount of assurance that the company has put time and money into sourcing and offering products that give you an objectively reasonable deal. A major reason why reps are cheap is that you are not paying for any of this. Also, this may be shocking but a lot of people selling stuff on the internet are unethical scammers looking to make a quick buck off ignorant or gullible people, and offering the best possible product is far from their highest priority! Crazy, I know! But I know it's true because I wired a guy in Nigeria $599.95 for his e-book on "Insider Secrets of Internet Commerce"! Nobody needs a replica Rolex. These dealers aren't selling spoiled baby formula, they are offering you a piece of a silly dream for a piece of the silly price. You have CHOSEN to buy something that looks like something you want but for whatever reason don't want to buy, for 1/20th of the actual price. Why would that not require any sacrifice whatsoever on your part? I'm not sure why this seems so hard to understand.