TK471

hello where i can found The Zigmeister ???

i sent to The Zigmeister email but no answer why?

He's not answering any new emails or PMs until after November 15. He's booked solid until December 1, and he's not going to take any new appointments before mid-November.

Well, given all that, I will settle for correct date wheel font (thanks for the heads up, Finepics), better crown, better cyclops and better lume.

The hands will have to remain what they are -- a replica (approximation) of the original. BOUGHT THE GEN HANDS OFF THE BAY!! The watch is running wonderfully, and hasn't left my wrist since I bought it. That makes me happy with it, which makes it good enough.

Thanks for the replies I have received.

Plus the hands, pam 063 are actually for 029 and are about 1.5 mm too long.

DAMMIT! That's right. I forgot about that. That's probably a davidsen thing, isn't it?

Well, I've got the best starting platform, anyway. I've got the 2893 movement and 1) an upgraded Palp crown on the way; 2) an upgraded cyclops sapphire crystal on the way from Davidsen.

Which leaves me with the one remaining piece. The ever-elusive DATEWHEEL. I've searched the site and elsewhere, and it looks like Finepics is going to be working on some, but not sure when/if those datewheels will be available for purchase. I guess I may just not be following the threads, though. It's possible they're on the way soon. Does anyone know?

I'd like to get all the work done at the same time, installation of all new parts, relume, etc. I LOVE this watch and don't like being without it for months on end, so it's going nowhere until all the pieces are in place.

Thanks in advance.

Z.

Thank you for your post. It was a very informative read.

Was a new thread started? I'm still hoping to reserve one of these, just not sure how to go about doing that.

Thanks, and, uh... bump, I guess.

What I want is a crystal w/ cyclops and AR to go on my PAM 63. Anyone know where I can find one?

If I get a non-AR crystal, is this something that Palp or The Zigmeister can handle?

Found this thread with a search.

I'm contemplating buying a new crystal with upgraded cyclops from Davidsen, which don't come with AR coating. What are the advantages of the coating? IN other words, what performance am I giving up by trading my current AR coated crystal?

Hi thanks for your words. Last time I talked with Palp he told me that the hands will be shipped later this week or early next week. I am waiting for the crown to finish my 177h.

cheers, vaccum

Hey, it's the truth!

I can't wait for that Palp crown... it's going to transform the look of that new 63 I've got coming in. Then it's lume time.

Vaccum, can you relume non-sandwich dials and hands?

I am on a trip right now...Had the option of 3 "GMT" watches: A Hamilton 2893-2, an Omega rep, and Trusty's Exp. II rep. They all keep proper time, so there's no wrong choice, but I find the Explorer to be the easiest to use.

(I'm operating on the assumption that most people like to show the local time with the main hands of the watch).

As an example, on a flight tonight, I update the time on my watch by +1 hr. in one simple step:

1. Pull the stem to the first position, and advance the hour hand by one hour. (You don't have to worry about precisely moving the hour hand, as it advances in 1 hour increments).
   

...The GMT hand time did not change. It continued to represent my "Home Time".

With a 2893-2 based GMT, that same procedure would require multiple steps:

1. Memorize the current time of the GMT hand.
   
2. Move the stem out to the second position, and advance the main hands by one hour.
   
3. Move the stem to the first position, and set the GMT hand back to the memorized time.
   

Now, neither of these is a big deal. I'm just saying that the GMT with adjustable hour hand is a bit easier to use. There no argument about the quality of the 2893 movement...I'm happy to own one. However, some collectors trust those crafty Chinese enough to use entire movements designed and made in their factories. In this case, all they've done is add a few gears to a workhorse ETA movement...and in the case of Trusty's Exp. II, it looks like they've done a pretty good job.

Uh, oh. I'm starting to think that maybe I don't know how the 2893 movement works. The GMT hand is not independently adjustable like the 2836-2?

A couple of points:

1. Vacuum, if you offer this service to people in the US, you could make a killing. These boards are full of people looking for this type of service. You would have no shortage of customers, and soon you would be making your own waiting list.

Give it some thought, it could be fun and lucrative.

2. When are the palp crowns due in? I'm following the thread elsewhere, and I placed an early order, I just haven't heard anything definite.

Z.

Well, I bought a watch with the 2893 movement installed.

So the 63 with a 2893 is on the way. I have given some thought to selling my current watch and getting like $150 out of it.

Here's my question, do you think I would be better served to utilize the case, crown, CG and crystal and purchase a movement and dial, starting a frankenwatch project? Will a Davidsen dial work with my watch?

I could sell it, like I said, and get about $150, I guess, but if I sell it, but a new case and start again, I'm sure I'd be more than $150 down.

Thanks in advance.

I don't think there's any question that the 2836 movement is not as good as a 2893 from the standpoint of GMT function, and isn't that what we're talking about here? On the other hand, the 2836 can be regulated to be extremely accurate (see my post about replacing the movements in this forum), so the base movement of good quality and produces solid results. But I think you can expect some problems at some point with the GMT function.

That said, I think it's possible to get the GMT hand working properly, provided someone (like The Zigmeister) who knows what they are doing gets their hands on it. The 2836's only inherent inferiority to the 2893 is that one was designed as a GMT, the other not. Granted, in this thread, that's a MAJOR inferiority.

If you go the movement swap route and the hands don't fit you can always pick up a set of gen hands (tritium or lume). But then you have to budget another $220 to the project. Buy the 2893 version.

On the advice of other members, I have decided to buy a 63 with a 2893 movement.

Concerning my 63 with the 2836, I recently had the movement serviced and regulated. The main time is unbelievably accurate. More accurate than any watch that I own or have ever owned, including Rolex, TAG and Omega. The watchmaker who regulated had it on a monitor and told me that the deviations were so small that they barely registered at all. That's impressive.

What I take from this is that the 2836 is a great movement. It can be made to be extraordinarily accurate. It's the GMT hand that's a bit of a problem. Most days it keeps great time, perfect time. But some nights it stops, and I have to reset it again in the morning.

All told, I'm going to sell it for $150 as soon as I can take some pictures of it.

I think I would sell the 2836 and buy a new 2893 - 63 or do nothing at all. They seem to have come down in price. One of the benefits of buying a 2893 already made is the rep makers seem to have made some effort to duplicate the movement decoration with the only real flaw being a missing "i" in Officine. The 2836 with GMT hand adds a separate hand which moves in concert with the hour hand. But you have to set the gmt right in the first place. The 2893 actually sets in 1 hour increments exactly in sync with the hour hand as a dedicated GMT movement should. I have heard a couple of folks complain that you can't reset the GMT hand on the 2893's in 1/2 hour increments. Someone here said that makes one timezone impossible to replicate. If that is true there are quite a few gen GMT's watches which won't do that either (including the gen 63). Beyond the decorated original movement most 2893 63's come individually numbered and with a good quality metal movement spacer. IMHO, if you do not want to replace what you have, I would stick with it as is and not bother with the transplant. By the time you factor in the movement and the installation you are adding another $300 or so. If you can sell what you have for $200 (??) you can buy a 2893 for $400-500

Thanks for that advice. Makes a lot of sense -- and you're probably right! The only problem is that I've seen a lot few of the 29s with the genuine 2893, but no 63s. If you know someone that has one, let me know and I'll contact them.

Thanks.

Z.

So following The Zigmeister's thread below regarding the 2836 movement in the Rolex GMT, a "bastardized" movement, as he calls it, I'm wondering whether it's worth it to buy a genuine 2893 movement for my PAM 63. I've got a Palp crown on the way, and I can get a 2893 for about $200. That's some money invested in this watch. Then you have to take on the cost of getting it installed. But here are a couple questions:

1. If I do buy the new movement, can it be installed into the 63 without significant modifications? I can't do it because I have ZERO watchmaking skills, but can it be done by someone with know-how?

2. The GMT hand on the 63 powered by the 2836 is sticking and lagging behind -- it just won't keep good time. Is this something that can be fixed, or am I forced to buy the 2893 if I ever want to have a truly functional GMT watch.

3. Cost concerns -- there will be a good deal of money invested in this watch. I'm just simply asking -- is it worth it?

4. Anyone done this modification?

Thanks in advance.

Z.

I am guessing that your model has the GMT hand closest to the dial face. I am trying to remember how it's done on that model (the GMT gear to movement connection), typically the GMT gear (or on the one I reviewed the Hour one) has notches in it (which act sort of like a clutch). It's doubtful that these notches would be slipping (you can feel how much tension is required to overcome the "clutch" as you change the GMT time when you set the hand), I would have to guess that your problem would be more related to the hand slipping on the post, than the GMT gear slipping...only a guess but seems more likely.

There is little room on the 063 between the hands and dial, GMT hand getting out of sync with the rest is fairly common and whenever I have noted it, it was the hand hanging up on the dial face...

RG

I can only respond with a bit more speculation. Stating the obvious, the guy said it was clear that the movement was modified so that the day function would control the GMT.

What's interesting is that I can take the main time hands and move it around the dial, and the GMT tracks just as it should, keeping a three hour lag, for example. I can do this for several days' worth. All the way around, the main time works around the dials twice, the GMT once, with the date changing over at midnight. I don't know why it would work when wound manually, but not work on its own. But, that's exactly what's happening.

I'm not too worried about it though, Zig. This is a watch that I've contacted you about before. I've got a crown on the way from Palp, so I'd planned on sending it to you for relume and maintenance once that 183 you've got is finished, and once I've got the crown in. There are enough people on the board with the 63 that they might like to see what's really causing the problem.

This is an extremely enlightening write up. I've got a 63 with the 2836-2 movement as the GMT. I just sent it off to be fixed. It came back working, and worked perfectly for about a week, then started to fall behind. I think what he said is happening (and forgive the very layman's explanation here) is that there is a "clutch" that keeps the GMT hand moving, and it appeared to be slipping.

The GMT can be independently set, and it will keep good time for a couple of hours, then it just sort of slows down.

The COSC standards for Mechanical watches, is -4 to +6 seconds per 24 hours...that is achieved on only the most expensive watches, after adjusting by specialized watch timers...

You have a $400 replica, never adjusted or worked on by any specialist, and it's as good a timekeeper as a watch costing $1000"s more...

Your well within the BEST Accuracy of any mechanical watch, if this is not accurate enough, my suggestion is to get a Quartz, as no mechanical watch can be expected to keep up with a atomic clock...

RG

This is a great point, Rob. Many people new to the world of automatic watches don't realize that there is no way that ANY mechanical timepiece can be as accurate as quartz. It's not about having lower expectations, it's about having different expectations.

I recently got 063 GMT PAM which I'm very happy with. However, I noticed that when I compare the US official time clock, over the duration of 24 hours, 6 sec ticking faster. Occasionally, GMT hand gets slightly out of sync. I don't know if it is typical problem or not. Is it possible to calibrate this movement so that it can be fairly accurate? When will be the best time to do service? I tried search, but nothing ame up. I don't know if I entered wrong clue. Thanks in advance!

I think that I was having the same problem. If I understand what you're saying, the main time keeps pretty steady time, and doesn't fall behind more than is usual for automatic watches. But the GMT hand will sometimes lag behind, i.e. you've got it set three hours behind but it doesn't always stay there.

If that's what you're saying, then there you will have to send the watch away to have the movement fixed. Apparently, there is a little clutch that controls the GMT hand and it is known to slip a bit. It's not a matter of the accuracy of the watch, but it is caused by a mechanical problem is the watch. Not a terribly serious mechanical problem, but a problem nonetheless.

Thanks,

Zach

7753 is too late but the others should be plenty to go around. As soon as they are closer to coming out I will make a post and take provisional orders.

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of this thread from the Dark Side! This is exactly what I'm looking for. I understand that you're not yet taking orders for the 2836-2 in my 63 GMT, but as soon as you are, I will take one.

Thank you in advance for the hard work on this.

Zach