freddy333

I may be alone in this, but I do not think having a yellowish crystal makes a watch look more vintage or old or real. It is rare for a crystal to remain on a watch long enough to turn yellow, naturally. They almost always crack, leak or become too opaque (from scratches and wear) to see through before they will discolor. In almost 25 years of watch collecting (and growing up with a watchmaker in the family), I think I have seen only 3 discolored crystals, and 2 of those were artificially discolored (yours being the 3rd).

Thanks TeeJay.

Yes, I agree completely. But I am not talking about adding anything that is not normally seen on a gen Newman. Of all the gen Newmans I have seen with black dials, most have been the black plastic bezeled 6241 models. I have only seen a couple of the silver metal bezeled 6239s. Although my original plan was to build a 6241, after seeing how the 6239 combination looks, I am no longer quite sure which model I prefer. At least with the black Newman dial, which is why I appreciate your comments. Any others?

Tony -- My original plan was to do a 6241, but fate stepped in -- DW sent me the wrong bezel (metal instead of plastic) & case (a 6239 -- twice) and after trying the 6239 combination out, it started to grow on me. And then it occurred to me that there are fewer Newmans floating around with silver bezels than black. So I am wondering if that, alone, may give the watch a bit more credibility. What do you think?

I am having trouble deciding which model to construct - 6239 (silver bezel) or 6241 (black bezel)? Which do you prefer and why? (the only difference is the bezel)

I have purchased several vintage gen crowns on the bay. I got 1 lot of 12 Triplocks (702s & 703s) and a couple of Twinlocks, 1 used (awaiting an MBW 5514/5513)and 2 NOS (destined for Newmans). They show up from time to time.

Thanks Watcher. I will check with my local dealer. I believe the gen springbars are gold, which explains their expense.

Are you sure that is a gen dial? Your pearl looks odd too.

Try ebay.com & ioffer.com & timeman.com & classicwatchparts.com Note that most dials sold separately are 'repainted' and usually contain one or more inaccuracies. The trick is to select the dial (with the least objectionable (to you) mistakes) that fits your case. You may need to check with the seller to be sure his dial's dimensions (and location of dial feet -- the 2 pins on the dial's backside that orient the dial in the movement) match yours. Most repainted dials are meant to be fitted onto gen movements and the location of the dial feet nearly always differ from the location required by ETA and other movements used in rep watches.

I agree. Unless you know what you are doing and have personally disassembled, reassembled (with all new gen seals, gaskets & proper sealants) and just water pressure-tested it, I would never swim, bath, shower or dive with any rep (or vintage gen) watch that is important to you. It is just too risky. Buy a Seiko or new gen Rolex for that.

The PMWF insert is what I used, but I replaced its crummy pearl with Ofrei's $10 Illumines Dot (bezel insert pearl). Click the following link and look for this entry near the bottom of the page Illumines Dot for Bezel Insert $10.00 Illumines Dot The gen crystal is always best, but it is expensive and may not be as reliable due to its age (the Plexiglas material will likely have lost some of its elasticity over the years). Clark's T39 superdome is reasonably priced and, although it slightly refracts images that pass through it, looks (from the outside) almost exactly like the gen lens In general, I would recommend that you hone in on one or two gen watches of the same vintage and design (some differences may only be apparent to you after alot of study and examination) and use those as your model. I would recommend doubleredseadweller.com as the place to begin since it explains many of the basic model and range variations. After that, Antiquorum is a good place to continue your 'studies'. There are many tutorials written by RWG members that will help to guide you through most of what you need to know.

I am not sure if it matches the pearl on your insert (these may be the bare pearl (without a metal surround) used for vintage inserts), but Ofrei sells an Illumines Dot (bezel insert pearl) for $10. Look for this item (it is the 3rd from the bottom) Illumines Dot for Bezel Insert $10.00 Illumines Dot on this page

Avitt -- You just saved my cookies. I tested the hole with a 1.8mm probe and it does NOT fit through the 1.3mm holes I drilled in the lugs, so the body of those springbars (which I just ordered) will definitely remain in place. Unfortunately, I do not have a .78mm probe, but, hopefully, the the pins will not look too small & will keep me in business until I can figure out what the correct (gen) parts should be. I assumed Rolex used the same diameter springbars on all of their vintage watches, at least for the men's sizes. So it never even occurred to me to check this out before I started drilling. But now that I am looking through my photo archives, it looks like the springbar holes on the Daytonas are a bit smaller than the hole in Subs and Seadwellers. So unless someone (Ubi) knows otherwise, I will leave the lugs on the next (6241) case alone.

Thanks, Avitt. Are these 2mm dia or did I bullocks up my case by drilling out the lug holes for the 2mm springbars?

It depends on the width of each lug. On some watches, the pins actually do reach the end and you can see them quite clearly. But on others, they stop just short of the end of the hole Same springbars, different cases

After drilling out the lugs in my 6239 case to fit gen (or similar generic) 19mm springbars, I am not finding them anywhere. At least not at any of the usual parts houses. Am I correct that the springbar diameter (2mm) and style (single-shoulder) on vintage Daytonas are the same as other vintage Rolex models? Do I have the size or style wrong or does anyone know of a source for these?

Nice work & a great pictorial. Did you drill the lugs to fit the proper 2mm springbars? Hard to tell from the photo.

Avitt -- Loctite was my plan, but I would really like to figure out the 'proper' method as I am sure there is one. As for the case shape, now I see what he was referring to. This item from the 6239 chapter of Rolex Daytona - A Legend is Born may be helpful Here is the DW I am not quite sure the factory had a clear plan when they 'cut' this case, but it is what it is. As for the DW crystal, I was not planning to use it. I just wanted to get opinions on the shape since all of my generic crystals (from Helfands) were either flat or flat with a slight bevel. But I think you and Ubi already answered this question as, based on your collective recommendations, I am awaiting a NOS gen T21 from Astorlive.

6241 cases -- Yes, so he says, but I will know for certain in a few days when the next shipment arrives. The 6239 case has all the proper markings between the lugs & inside the case back (though the lug markings look more like modern etchings than vintage engravings). I do not know what you mean by 'heavy' countersink, but the holes for the pushers appear to have the correct (small) amount of countersinking And note the shape & height of the crystal (the shipping plastic is still covering the top surface). As I mentioned earlier, it looks almost like a superdome. As far as I know, all the vintage Daytonas (up to the 165xx model) used the same case. The 2 models you mentioned differ only in the components attached to and placed inside them. Although I have only done a test fit of all the components, I saw no problems with the way anything (except for the crown tube, which has now been addressed by Avitt & Ubi) fits in the case. Though I have still not solved the question about how I am going to screw (tighten) the pushers down into the case. The DW's pushers, unlike those from Ofrei, do not have anything on the screw part of the assembly to grasp with a tool. So I am not sure how to tighten them down, at least without leaving plier marks or damaging something? The non-screw pushers that came with the DW case fit fine. But I should mention that these pushers differ in construction from those I have used before from Ofrei (This is a disassembled Ofrei pusher) Note the splines around the bottom of the screw part in the photo, which can be used to grasp when screwing the part into the case. The DW pushers, which are constructed slightly differently (and are a minor pain to reassemble), lack these splines, so there is nothing to grasp with a tool. In addition, the thread pitch in the case & on the DW pushers are a bit more coarse than the threading on the Ofrei parts or previous Daytona cases I have installed pushers into. So you have few options with the DW case other than to use the DW pushers. Except for the threading on the pushers (which is not very 'clean'), they seem to be of reasonable quality, similar to the Ofrei parts. But I disassembled and overhauled them anyway just to be safe (neither had any sealing grease on the internal rubber gaskets (they do now)).

Hello & welcome. If you hear 'sand' inside your watch, it probably needs servicing. If you know how to overhaul an automatic watch movement, you can do it yourself. But if you have to ask a question like that, you probably don't. I would recommend checking with the seller or try some local watchmakers to see if they are willing to work on a replica watch. If you cannot find a local watchmaker, try ziggyinfo.com (in case you do not already know, Ziggy is THE MAN when it comes to watchmaking skills and making reps run right).

Avitt -- I think my T21's are from Helfands, but none of them look domed. At least not domed like the DW crystal, which looks almost like a superdome in comparison to the Helfand's T21's. But I find that there are often variations in crystals from the same seller.

I already tapped the case (it needed it). And if the tube worked without countersinking for you, then it should work for me. Thanks. I have another question that probably does not have a 'right' or 'wrong' answer, but I would like to get an opinion. My 6239 DW case came with a '300 UNITS' metal bezel and DW is sending an additional pair of '200 UNITS' bezels (a metal one & a black one) and a 6241 case. So I will have 2 cases (6239 & 6241) and 3 bezels (1 '300' metal, 1 '200' metal & 1 '200' black plastic). As far as I know, the gen 6239 was made with a metal bezel, but they left the factory with either a '200' or '300' UNITS scale (The Daytona book shows both). The 6241 differed (cosmetically) from the 6239 in that it has a black plastic bezel with either '200' or '300' units. But most of the 6239's & 6241's that came with Newman dials have '200' units bezels. Which bezel would you fit to which case for a Newman dial (my dial is black, but I could not find 2 similar 6239s with black dials)?

I noticed that about 'f l a n g e' a couple of months ago. For the gasket, I was thinking of just using the case gasket from a Triplock crown tube. Or are you talking about making the gasket out of harder material?

Thanks Ubi. The crystal that came with the case looks like a domed T21, which is why I was wondering if maybe DW had switched to an improved rep crystal recently. Anyway, I ordered a gen NOS T21 yesterday and I will compare it to the handful of aftermarket (flat and beveled) T21s I already have when it arrives. Did you countersink the (gasketed) tube on your vintage Daytonas?

Thanks Avitt. That is what I was thinking.