freddy333

You are right. There is alot of variation in the gen DRSD dials. doubleredseadweller.com has a dial section that shows some of differences. I always compare the rectangular hour marker at 9 with the round markers above and below it (at 8 & 10) to be sure the 9 marker is the right length. I think the problem is that the round markers are smaller on the rep dials and so they had to shorten the rectangular markers to maintain the proper perspective. If they made the 6 & 9 markers the correct size (to match those on the gen dials), they would stick out too far (in either direction) beyond the smaller round 8 & 10 markers above and below it. I guess the factory chose to shorten the 2 rectangular markers instead of just making the round markers the correct size to begin with. Like I keep saying, there is always something obvious the rep factories miss (or purposely get wrong) that leaves me scratching my head.

Hi Avitt -- Yes, I saw the same Timezone thread and it looks like the same dial or at least from the same source. I do not think that all of the tritium dials had that canvas texture. At least not from what I see in some of the other Timezone posts and Rolex books. The one thing that does seem to be common with all the tritium markers is their grainy appearance, which is lacking on the OEM WM/MBW dial. This is one of the things that aftermarket dial got about right. I noticed the slight difference between our MBW dials too. Since your MBW dial is older than mine, I think that is the reason for the variation. It looks like the variations are just variations and not improvements. Different factories maybe?

Yes, I was just going to inquire as to the source of a $250 (working) V72. But if there is one, please PM me asap. Seriously.

Hard to see the pearl, but the rest of the insert looks good to me.

There is apparently some confusion regarding the differences between the OEM WM/MBW DRSD dial and a generally well done aftermarket dial that Polexpete used in his watch (I purchased one of these dials as well). So, to try to clear up some of the confusion, I am posting side-by-side photos of both dials so everyone can see the differences between them. Unfortunately, the comparison is not 100% fair because I did not have a second WM/MBW case & movement to fit the aftermarket dial onto. So I placed one of the vintage datewheels that was recently produced by RWG members under it and a gen T39 crystal over it. In this way, the two dials can be seen under similar conditions. There is some difference in the way light is refracted through each crystal, but when viewed from straight-on, the differences are minimal. The dial on the left is the OEM WM/MBW dial with OEM datewheel and crystal. The dial on the right is the aftermarket dial with the recently modded datewheel and gen T39 crystal. Some of the most noticeable differences are * the width of the index markers at 6 & 9 * the color of the lume (you cannot see it in the photos, but the lume in the aftermarket dial looks very much like tritium in both color (slightly whiter around the edges) and its 3-d shape * the printing on the aftermarket dial is crisper, but somewhat uneven (note, as one example, the spacing between the H and R in CHRONOMETER (on the other hand, there is too much spacing between the letters in SEA-DWELLER & SUBMARINER on the WM/MBW dial)) * the coronet in the aftermarket dial is narrower at the bottom (which is incorrect), but also crisper and more detailed at the top (which is more accurate) * the font in ROLEX is more correct on the aftermarket dial (note, for instance, that the sides of the O are wider than the top and bottom, which is correct) There are other differences to be sure. But, all in all, and as good as the aftermarket dial is in many ways, I think the OEM WM/MBW dial comes closer to matching the gen DRSD dial. For comparison, here is a gen version IV DRSD dial Opinions?

Just before reassembly, I always clean the inside of the case and crystal with Windex (glass cleaner) and a Viva paper towel (this brand will not scratch the plastic). Then I use a can of compressed air (available at office supply and computer stores) to blow any remaining moisture, dust and debris out. Just be sure not to touch anything on the inside of the case as you reassemble.

I do this with every new watch -- manually wind it, slowly, 40-50 turns and then set it on my desk and let it run for about 2 days. If it stops running towards the end of the 2nd day, then I repeat the test. If it stops, again, near the end of the 2nd day, then it is probably fine. But if it stops much before the 2nd day, back it goes to the dealer. Most of the dealers here will repair and return it good as new (if not new).

If you do not see the release button, can you post a clear photo of the rear side of the movement near the stem? Maybe someone will be able to spot it for you.

That is too bad because your original work (aside from the scratches) looked pretty good. You probably could have touched-up the scratches with a black magic marker. It is such a small spot that if done carefully, I doubt you could even see the color difference with a low power loupe. But I guess that is water under the bridge since your watch is gorgeous now.

If you are talking about the pre-16520 Daytonas, I can tell you that the versions with the Asian 7750 movements have fully functional chronograph movements (tri-compax), but they are also self-winding (automatic), which is inaccurate for the vintage Daytonas as these were manual wind. You can always remove the winding rotor to make a sort of pseudo manual movement (at least you will not hear the rotor winding when you move the watch). But if you do that, you would almost have to also replace the rep crown and crown tube with gen parts, since the daily winding would quickly strip the threads and you would have to replace them anyway. The versions with the 'Lemania'/Venus movements are bi-compax. That is they have only 2 working chronograph subdials -- at 3 & 9 (they have a dummy subdial at 6 (the hand in this subdial just replicates the movement of the watch's hour hand, but this can be 'frozen' by removing a gear and (permanently) fixing the hand at 12 to simulate the correct 'off' position of the subdial on the gen Daytona), but these are manual (hand-wind) movements, which is correct for the early Daytona. Check the Collectors' section as some of the collectors here display both versions. Which is better for you? You tell me.

Very interesting progression, Avitt. I see why Sherrington removed the lume on the last dial. The color looks off (too yellowish). I am also giving second thought to the original WM/MBW datewheel as it has those quite genuine looking slightly serifed fonts.

I am not sure what defines a 'super rep', but there have always been varying levels of quality in the rep world. And I am going back more than 20 years. I remember when just a small handful of mail order rep dealers (this was long before the internet) began for the first time to offer the 'ultra exclusive' (ultra expensive for the time) new ETA based Rolex reps that had real gold plated bezels. But I have only ever bought watches that I think (at least, at the time) are visually accurate enough to pass as gens and which fit my style. Fortunately, while my watch knowledge and style have improved over the years (with maturity comes wisdom), so have the reps. But while I am amazed at how accurate some modern reps have become (while not perfect, some of the current 116520 Daytona reps look and function so similar to the genuine articles that owners of the gens must now ask themselves if their money was well spent), I am also constantly maddened at how often the rep makers fail to get some of the more obvious (and easy to achieve) details right (the cheesy 3, 6 & 9 hour markers on some of the current 116509 Daytona reps spoil an otherwise perfect reproduction dial).

I do not think there is any way to verify the state of the pinion without at least removing the hands and dial, which the dealer may balk at. And, even then, you may still need to at least partially disassemble the movement to locate the source of the problem. I would try pulling out the stem and moving the hands around the dial for several revolutions -- in both directions. Do this a couple of times. I had a movement once which had a gear that would intermittently (every few months) pop out of place and it resulted in symptoms similar to what you described. This got it working again. If it still appears to be 'stopped', I think you will have to return it to the dealer. Ziggy may have another suggestion, but that is what I would do.

In another post, Ubi posted a photo showing a gen Triplock crown next to a rep. The main problem, as and you can see from the comparison photos, is that the shaft that runs through the center of the rep crown (what the stem screws into) is narrower than the shaft in the gen crown. And the hole in the rep crown tube is made to fit the narrower shaft of the rep crown and the wider shaft in the gen will not go through the rep crown tube. So if you want to upgrade the crown to a gen, you will need to replace the crown tube also.

Ziggy's procedure is the most likely to work, but olivia's suggestion of trying to loosen it with penetrating oil is worth a try before you break out the drill. One other option, if there is enough of the head left you might try tapping on it from the side of the head with a small chisel. If you place the edge of the chisel at the right angle, it will bite into the edge of the screw head and you might be able to tap it in the direction to loosen and remove it.

I do not know what you mean by a jeweling tool, but you do not need a staking tool for basic repairs. Most watch parts supply houses (ofrei.com, julesborel.com) have watch repair kits. If you are going to take a watch repair class, the class can tell you what you need. If you plan to learn on your own, I cannot guide you there. You will have to buy what you need as you need it. All anyone here can tell you is to get quality tools and learn to use them correctly. Good luck and have fun.

The two thoughts that come to mind are carefully scraping print off with a pin (if you want to remove the print, but leave the background color) or just spray the entire dial face with paint remover (if you want to remove everything). If you plan to match the same colors, I would find the correct paint colors before you do anything.

I order pretty frequently from Ofrei and never had any real problems with Bob or anyone else in the company. But Bob Frei can be a bit unpredictable sometimes. I have had one very nice off-topic telephone conversation with Bob (he knew one of my relatives) and a couple of not so pleasant conversations (I do not think Bob is naturally a 'people person'). I have also received a couple of very strange emails from Bob where he ranted about his problems and things that had nothing to do with me. But as others have stated, as long as you know your part numbers and quantities and order by phone, you should be alright.

Exactly.

Avitt -- I will definitely keep you (and rwg) posted on my progress regarding the He valve. I have ordered some drill bits and will probably end up renting a drill press to get the rest of the work done. As repaustria already made clear with his version, it takes an already good rep up another notch. As far as the dials go, I had a feeling you would have the same issues I have regarding the narrow hour markers on the DRSD dial I have (and Polexpete posted a photo of). But I should say that, in person, the lume on that dial is quite well done. It is hard to see in the photo, but (on mine at least) it has just the right hint of original white color around each of the hour markers (the round ones too), which looks like alot of the vintage tritium you see on the gen watches. And I agree that there is probably a near-perfect replacement dial out there, but I also suspect that it will cost no more than the dials I have already found (under $400). There are so many variations of these DRSD rep/aftermarket/repainted dials (each gets one thing right and another wrong) that I think it is just a matter of finding the one with the least objectionable combination of sins. The search goes on.

Yes, that is the way the dial should look. I could be wrong, but one of the better Rolex books (I believe it was The Best of Time) said that some of the Comex Subs used the thicker Sea-Dweller cases in order to fit the He valve.

The photo I posted in the Stamping thread was to indicate the design and layout of a gen Comex non date Sub 551x caseback, not the dial. The issue I have with the width of markers relates only to the DRSD dial Polexpete posted (which I have as well). I have seen dozens of DRSDs (including those on doubleredseadweller) and none have such narrow coronets or index markers at the 6 & 9. Does that make more sense?

I am not sure what number I will use, but if it contains a 3 I want it to have a flat top since I have seen this font used on another gen Comex caseback. It is also the font on the datewheel and I think it looks cooler than the round 3.

Yes, it is engraved. A definite shortcoming and something that I will need to address. But after I have stamped the number, the plan is to either soften the sharp engraved corners with an engraving bit (I think it was KingKiteSurf who did that with great success (it fooled me) on his DRSD caseback) or to sand the entire face to remove the sharp engraved edges and then polish it. The second option will probably result in a more authentic looking vintage watch that could have seen daily duty with a Comex diver.

Here is the original caseback -- the infamous 'Comex 729', which is referenced in just about every tutorial on how to spot a fake Rolex Compared to that and the caseback that comes stock on most Comex reps, I think it is a great improvement and comes much closer to the version of the Comex gen in that Antiquorum sale. And after I add my own serial number, it will be unique and almost impossible for someone else to have the same one. But if you can direct me to a better caseback that is for sale (for a reasonable price), I would greatly appreciate it. And, like all of my modded watches, they can only be seen here (or on my wrist).