panerai153

Man, I would take a couple of those in a heartbeat. like the man said, in some of the scans, the rep looked more genuine than the genuine!! Someone needs to see where that guy got the fake from. i would bet he bought it at a watch show, or Ebay. You really need to have them in good light and a pretty good bit of magnification to tell them apart. By itself, not many folks around could tell it was a rep.

That has come up time and again over on the genuine Rolex forums. one has to ask why one particular person can have a 40 year old watch serviced and the next guy comes along with one that is very similar in age and condition and they tell him ,"Sorry, we don't service those older Rolex watches" As Freddy says, it's probably not what you know, but who you know that gets you in the door. I do know from experience, having had several Rolex watches serviced by RSC Dallas, you never get your old parts back.Some of the parts that were replaced were in pretty crummy shape, but I've had hands, a dial and several bezel inserts replaced as well as a crystal exchange every time. The crystals were throw away, but they took off parts that to me were perfectly usable and in reasonably good condition. I will say in comparison, we are buying parts like bezel inserts and crowns that are in worse condition than ones that were changed on my watches at service. Of course that reflects the fact that most of us can't get new service dials,hands, inserts, etc., as there isn't any source for them. It would be wonderful if we could walk into an AD or a RSC and buy a new insert, a set of hands, bracelet endlinks, etc., but it ain't going to happen! And the guys who have over the years cultivated some fairly reliable sources for parts aren't going to take a chance on getting cut off, by telling everyone where they can get a brand new 1680 service dial. and I don't blame them a bit.

If youy like the watch, why not contact the seller if he is in the EU, get his phone number and have a chat with him. Then if he sounds OK and photos of the watch looks OK, set up a meeting with him and look at the watch. I'm sure if he is a member here, and he has been approved by the administrators to sell a high value watch, he is reliable and will give you some sort of money back return if the watch is not as described.I think this would be a whole lot better than buying one off of Ebay.If you aren't impressed with the watch after looking it over and talking to the seller, it's a whole lot easier to say thanks very much, here let me buy the drinks, but I think I will pass on the watch. All you're out is a tank of gas and a couple of drinks. I'm assuming the watch you're talking about is a 1665. If you are looking to buy a 1680 or newer Rolex sub, you are getting right up there close to the price of a genuine. I have seen quite a few 16800's and early 16610's sell for around 3-3.5 thousand USD. The watch you are describing is 3668.00 USD with todays exchange rate. If you look hard, you could probably find a pretty nice genuine submariner for that price. Probably a good link to read would be here My 1665 Project . There are some very insightful posts about the price/value ratio of replicas. We are talking about watches similar to what you are talking about, "Super Frankens" with lots of genuine parts. How do you determine how much you should spend on a project. This will also give you some ideas, if perhaps paying 2800.00 Euros, is too much for a Replica, or is it a bargain based on the model it's repping.

Great Poem :thumbsupsmileyanim: I grew up under the tutelage of my grandfather whose favorite expression when someone said "It can't be done" was "Son, can't died on this place a long time ago, now go do it"

When I made my in full payment back last November, the advance deposit option was no longer available. i felt like I was getting in at a good price, because it was about to go up to 450.USD and then another two steps to around 625-650.00 USD. I believe the reason most of us got in was our faith (Now probably misguided) in George. You have to remember this wasn't WM9's first rodeo.George had built quite a few other models over the previous years, and deservedly so had a great reputation for producing probably the best "out the box" reps around. So this isn't like we were dealing with some guy that just showed up and asked for money up front for a concept watch. George had a proven track record of producing.Look at the WM9 V1,2,3 subs, the TT Sub and the Yachtmaster. Those are all reps that out the box would fool all but the most knowledgeable Rolex WIS. And now that they are probably not going to be produced anymore, the value will certainly increase, which is pretty rare in rep watches. I still hold out some hope, however faint, WM9's email is still working, even though he isn't answering. He or someone must be looking at the emails, or systematically deleting them, because if that wasn't the case, emails to him would be bouncing, which as of last week, they weren't.

I can't give you much encouragement. Here in the states, the only way you are assured of getting something on the stated delivery time is either USPS Express mail, Fed EX or UPS one or two day. I believe that even with the best method, it would be a real crapshoot to have a hard deadline of say Dec 23rd. Hopefully some of the guys here who have gotten watches recently can chime in. It seems like the last one I got From DSN took about two weeks regular EMS from China, but that was back in rthe middle of the summer, not less than a month before Christmas. Unfortunately, you can't use FedEX or UPS, because they have their own customs clearing, and they will scrutinize every package, (Especially since the Toner cartridge bomb scares) and if it's a Rolex, they will either confiscate it, or maybe worse charge you the customs duty of a genuine! Good Luck with your search

If a genuine crystal fits, that would be a nice addition. What hands are you looking at? Clark, Mr. Scumbag aka WO990. genuine dial, crystal crown/tube would make a really nice watch. Genuine crown for sure to start, as the rep crowns are too big.

the "Watch Out" crew over on TRF must have gotten to him. Probably why he pulled it. Or maybe he didn't realize it is a fake. i hope he didn't trade a big high quality diamond for that one!! Charlie, if you see something on Ebay, it's fine to post a link, as long as you don't abuse it by posting links to 25 auctions every day and expect the guys here to vet every Rolex on Ebay for authenticity. I agree with Freddy, I approach Ebay like it i'm in a minefield with no map! You can find a bargain on there every now and then, but you have to know what you're looking for and what the value of the object is. Outside of the out and out shysters on Ebay, are the folks who are selling beat up, worn out stuff and asking mint quality prices. Another thing, if you smell something fishy, run away. If it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Nobody in their right mind would ever start a genuine DRSD off at a 1.00 USD bid and no reserve. All of the guys selling good quality watches are smart enough to protect themselves. they would much rather have a listing run out and have to relist 10 times rather than have someone steal a genuine DRSD for 2-3 k. Hell, the dials are 3 times that. Another thing, what are you looking for? Do you want to build something from scratch, or pick up a genuine Rolex at a bargain price? I'm not at all clear about what you're shooting for.

R, As usual you leave us speechless. Another work of the master. You can send it on down to me, you have my address :whistling: , Seriously, that is one beautiful watch.

It sure looks like the insert is canted, not the crystal. Clearer photos would help, but it's definitely higher on one side. It's proud of the bezel rim on ons side and below or flush on the other. I think the slanted insert is giving you the illusion that the crystal is slanted. I would take sneed's advice. definitely expoxy seal the HE valve. On every DSSD I've seen, the HEV operates opposite from the way it's supposed to i.e. pressure from the outside rather than the inside!

Rather than get the movement in the watch serviced,. I would put in a 2846-2 which is a slow beat movement. The more recent 2836-2's are fast beat 28,000 as opposed to 21000. Those who know can tell the difference.

There isn't much info on Explorers. but there is a ton of info on GMT IIC conversions as well as GMT 1675's (Genuine has the same hand stack as the ETA movements (2836-2 and 2893-2) So a really good GMT 1675 mod would solve the hand stack problem, but finding a case that would accept genuine dial, etc may be a problem.

I have to agree with Tom. I think in the end, what you are going to end up with is a sack full of parts and a whole lot of frustration. Most of the modern cases don't lend themselves well to extreme modding.Also, It's not really clear to me what you are trying to do? Are you trying to build a Explorer II or a GMT? You are going to have to start back from scratch, do a lot of research, pick the brains of some of the experts here who have tried what you are attempting. Realize that practically every permutation of modding has been TRIED on just about every Rolex model, some of these are extremely successful, others are abject failures.No matter how much you want a project to work, just willing it to work won't make it happen! Some just won't work, no matter what you try. Case in point, I have a very nice GMTIIC with a ICHS 2836-2 movement. i wanted very badly to get a 2893-2 movement into the watch. i even bought a couple of movements, sent the watch, 2893-2 up to Ziggy with great expectations. It was a no go. It just couldn't be done without so many compromises that affected reliability that Ziggy wouldn't attempt it. I'm afraid what yo are attempting is heading in that direction. First off, I would never start a project , especially one that is going to be expensive with the movement you are using. The CHS 2836-2 movement is notoriously unreliable. most of the watch repair folks here won't even work on them. Learn from others mistakes, don't invest a lot of money in a project that could be very expensive and time consuming ,only to have the watch break down and die on you in a few days, weeks or months.

You bought this one from a regular contributing member who would know what he was selling. It is an older MBW, It matches the serial number on mine. I just checked. Mine dates from about 2006. I am in the process of upgrading mine with a better dial, Rolex 1570 movement genuine hands, it already has a genuine T-39 superdome , genune crown/tube. Shoot me a PM and I can send you some photos of mine. Also may have some partss you could use.

congratulations on the Sub, it's a really nice looking watch. You know, when I scrolled down to the side by side photos, at first glance I knew the genuine was on the right. When you look at it overall, not necessary looking for "tells", the first thought is Quality. the insert engraving is deeper and thus makes the minute indicators and the numbers appear more 3 dimensional. Then when you look at the dial, it's just so crisp and everything "pops". That's not to say the rep is bad, because it definitely isn't, but my only way to describe the difference is the genuine looks like a photo that is spot on in focus, and the rep looks like a photo that is just a tiny hair out of focus. The dial print, the insert, etc. are just not as crisp and defined as the genuine. As most of you have stated, the differences are so slight that only a WIS, or a Rolex watchmaker could spot the differences, and then probably only from very close up.

Nothing wrong with that concept congratulations to you, Red and Andy I couldn't think of a more worthy and wise group. Having guys like you all are what makes this the best watch forum on the internet

Unfortunately, there are probably a lot of us who got in late (I paid for mine a little over a year ago) I believe I paid 375 at the time, and was congratulating myself that I got all in at a bargain price. Looks like the last laughs on me. Also unfortunately, there are a significant number of folks( me included) who have dealt with WM9 directly, so we are SOL. If the project is truly dead, then we are out our money, simple as that. I did buy a cheap 16600 SD, just to try it on for size. I have since sold it, as it really didn't have much appeal to me.Ii would rather concentrate on vintage SD's. I suppose old watches for old guys is pretty apropos.

The world of collecting, be it watches ,old masters, exotic cars, etc is as my wife terms it "a dark forest" I suppose not ever having the amount of disposable income that these folks have makes it incomprehensible. Put in perspective, if you have a net worth of billions, what's a 500k purchase. Another thing that always worries me about auctions is how much "Shill' bidding is going on. you have all sorts of frenzy on the auction floor as well as a bank of telephone operatives. Who knows if that person on the phone is actually raising the bid, or the operator is listening to the Time and temperature in Geneva! Another way of looking at this is from and investment standpoint, the Euro is looking pretty shaky now and over the long haul. So what would you rather have in your portfolio, a really sterling example of a rare Rolex, or Spanish or Irish bonds?

Don't worry, Mr Slimeball aka WO990 is immune to threats and disssatisfied customers, he has so many he just shrugs it off. If you are on Ebay, search Rolex hands you will see Clark. I know he's there, because I looked yesterday. His store name is Clark Watch parts and his user name is nostalgia-2000

I believe that you should do more research on the watches you listed above. by-tor has done reviews on the WM9/BK and there are all sorts of reviews on the DSSD. Back in the spring, it was the hottest ticket around and there were all sorts of reviews and photo reviews. Personally, I don't think you have a chance at a WM9/BK sub unlessyou get incredibly lucky on the sales forum. I bought one from a fellow member about 6 months ago, and this listing had been up for about 14 minutes when i saw it, PM'ed him with intent to buy and got it. Occasionally the BK Yachtmasters come up for sale, as do the DSSD's. If you are intersted in a DSSD, PM me, I may be able to help, and as fender stated, GOOD luck with one B4 Christmas from a dealer.

Try Clarks, also on Ebay. Better quality, and a much more reliable and honest seller. I would bet he has what you want.

Here is the deal. Relative to the GMT. Several years ago, one of our dealers who is no longer with us offered some PAM GMT's with 2893-2 movements. They were expensive and they didn't last long (for sale). They were replaced with the 2836-2's primarily because the 2836-2's were a whole lot cheaper and could be modified to have the GMT feature. 2893-2's are pretty expensive and are not readily available today. ETA is limiting the sale of movements and will over the next two or three years cease to sell movements to outside sources. This has a lot of smaller watch makers in a tizzy, because they have been using ETA's and modified ETA's for years. Fortunately, there are a couple of other manufacturers who are gearing up to produce movements which for all practical purposes identical in function and size to their corresponding ETA movements. At the present time, there are no dealers sellinig GMT IIC's or Explorers with the option of a 2893-2 movement. Personally, i like the 2893-2 because it is a purpose built GMT movement, it's very robust and will hold up for many,many years if serviced properly. The 2836-2 of today however is a good movement and also will do fine for a long time, again with proper service. Several folks on the forum have tried to replace the 2836-2 movement in their GMT with a 2893-2. Of all the people who have tried, i only know of two who were sucessful, and both said it was so difficult, they would never do it again. I had my watchmaker, who I believe is the best watchmaker/modder on the forum attempt to put a 2893-2 movement in my Rolex GMTIIC. He wouldn't do it, because of the problems both with the installation, and potential for ongoing problems that could crop up later. If you are interested in a GMTIIC read by-tor's reviews of the GMTIIC. It is a very comprehensive review. What he told me about my GMT IIC was this. The GMT IIC is a very nice watch especially in the ICHS version (Avoid the CHS version at all costs, it is well known for it's unreliability and tendency to die at a very early age)! His advice was to wear the watch as it came to you, because there were some things wrong that couldn't be fixed, and spending a lot of money modding would not be worth the expenditure. I did end up having mine relumed and the movement serviced, but that was the extent of my modding.I have no idea whether or not a genuine dial will work, finding a genuine crystal with the AR'er cyclops is next to impossible, and it would be cost prohibitive to put a genuine movement in that watch.One of the problems we are facing today is,Rolex is getting very tight with their replacement parts. A watchmaker has to have a Rolex parts account which in itself is becoming harder to get and to keep. Rolex is requiring that when a watchmaker changes out a part such as a bezel insert, they have to send the old part back to Rolex. I'm sure this is Rolexes way of controlling the used market such as Ebay. I would expect that almost all of the used parts that you see on Ebay were parts that a watchmaker exchanged for a new part and then sold the old part. With the way Rolex is cracking down, it may come a time when all you see on Ebay are aftermarket parts, no used genuine parts. So my advice to you would be buy a GMt IIC, either new or a used one off the forum (they come up for sale all the time) wear it and enjoy it. It's not a watch that will lend itself to extensive modding, and even if you did, there are enough "tells" that it still wouldn't be an accurate watch.

Congratulations and many wishes for a long and happy marriage. :thumbsupsmileyanim: As far as the watch, I agree that it needs to be something that is significant and has a history with you. It will be one that you will need to keep, for the sentimental value.Simple, elegant, understated. I also agree wholeheartedly with Freddy, this is the brides day. you are just along for the ride!! Never, never try to upstage the bride or even worser the brides mother on her wedding day. And to Pete, i don't think Freddy and I are modern men, we are probably more the old fashioned, older guys who have been there, done that and have the T-shirt to prove it.

Perfect advice. Some of those NOS movements that they are using now are dry as dirt from sitting on a shelf for umpteeen years. Another thing, I really believe that a Trusted member here who has been around and has done a fair number of sales/trades, etc. is not going to screw you over. I can tell you from experience, my worst deals have come with newer members with no track record, and dealers.

Happy thanksgiving to all. Wearing the "traveling" 1680. San Juan PR