vandal.tbh

P.S. 267 replies and almost 4000 views has got to be some kind of forum record! I think all-in-all, despite all the accusations and name-calling it was an interesting, informative and successful thread. One of the things I love about this forum is that the moderators don't over-moderate! Thanks you guys! Freedom of speech - freedom of the people! I look forward to getting my PO back from Andrew and doing a full review on it, that I can link in this thread...where it belongs!

Thanks Cougar! Just finished my second one and am only posting the link here on this thread because I cried so hard about my PAM and DSSD here that I feel obligated to produce some closure! Here it is: http://www.rwg.cc/topic/142483-review-panerai-pam-177-titanium/ Enjoy!

Hi guys! Today I’ll be reviewing the Panerai PAM177 on the rubber strap. I want to preface this review by saying that this is only my second review on this forum. I’m a relative newbie when it comes to reps, but I have been a lover of fine watches for many many years. Being new to this there may be things I fail to cover or simply do not know, so please don’t hesitate to ask me other questions. And I am always open to suggestions on how to make my reviews better and more valuable to others. Background: I am new to Panerai’s. It has only been in the past few months that I’ve gained an appreciation for their simple but elegant beauty. Some of the things I looked for in picking out this watch were a sandwich dial face with superlume, a small seconds hand, and an exhibition back. I really like the PAM-386M as well and I will probably end up purchasing that one down the road. I have never seen the gen of this watch (or any other Panerai for that matter) in person, so my only comparison to the real thing is through photos and YouTube videos. The Dealer: I purchased this watch from Andrew at Trusty Time. He has been outstanding to work with and I plan on leaving a thorough review of my experience with him on his section of this forum later today. Please check it out if you plan to purchase from him. Here is the link to the watch I purchased: http://www.yourtrustytime.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_49&products_id=8784 This is the detailed description of the watch copied from the website: PN177NRU1 - Pam 177 N TI/RU Black Asia 6497 21600bph H Factory Best!!! Pam 177 N Series Upgraded!!!... Platinum Plated Bridges/Dagger Swan Neck Regulator Movement!!!!..... Made with a Genuine as Sample... Original C1 + C3 Super Luminova on Dial ..The Best 1 : 1 Pam to Date .. Swiss Quality Colourless AR Coating ...No Mods Needed.. All Parts Directly interchangeable with the Genuine. Immediate Delivery!!!!! MOVEMENT: Asian 6497 Manual Handwind Movement, Platinum Plated Cortes de Geneve Decoration on Bridges, Correct Shape Dagger Swan Neck Regulator, 17J, 21600bph CASE DIAMETER: 44mm THICKNESS: 15mm DIAL COLOR: Black Dial, Black Subdials, Numeral/Stick Hour Markers, Original C1+C3 Super Luminova Applied on Markers and Needles CASE MATERIAL: Full Solid Titanium Case 1:1 (Same color tone as genuine) BRACELET: Rubber (Antidust Quality) strap with Pre V Titanium Buckle FRONT GLASS: Sapphire Crystal Colourless AR Coated as per the Genuine. Done by Vendor who does for Swiss Genuine Brands BACK GLASS: Sapphire Display Case Back, Individual N Series Serial NXXX/800 nos and Matching Individual BB nos , Every Serial Number is Individual Engraved with Individual Scan Film, Not by Running Computer Program CLASP TYPE: Titanium Tang Buckle OTHER REMARKS: Water Resistant, No Recess Central Pinion, Polished Head flushed Lug Screw, Flush Polished Head Lever Pin, Notch for Bezel Prying at 5:00 Ordering/Shipping: I ordered this watch (along with a Rolex DSSD reviewed elsewhere) on Jan 13th through Andrew’s website. I received a confirmation email immediately. I received QC photos on Jan 15th. The watch arrived on Jan 28th but it had spent a full 5 days in the possession of customs at JFK, so taking out that delay the order-to-receipt time was 10 days which I consider to be excellent processing time from China to the US. The watches came well packaged. Each had a rubber bezel/case guard, was wrapped in thin plastic sheet, then folded up in a lot of bubble wrap and placed inside a thick Styrofoam box. The Styrofoam box was shipped in a standard cardboard box. You could drop this package off a 10 story building and the watches would be fine. The watches came well packaged. Each had a rubber bezel/case guard, was wrapped in thin plastic sheet, then folded up in a lot of bubble wrap and placed inside a thick Styrofoam box. The Styrofoam box was shipped in a standard cardboard box. You could drop this package off a 10 story building and the watches would be fine. First Impression: Talking the watch out, I carefully cut away the plastic film and removed the rubber bezel guard. I was amazed at how nice this watch looked in my hand. The quality of the appearance, and the fit-and-finish of this watch was way better than website photos or QC pictures could represent. This is a gorgeous watch, especially the movement, and I am extremely pleased with this purchase as my first PAM. Here are some photos: Further Investigation: The Crown - The first rep I purchased had a serious issue with the crown and the stem not engaging the movement correctly, so I had to send it back. So the first thing I did was to pull the crown out and test it. Unlocking the crown with the lever proved to be a good first impression of the quality of this watch. The lever was tight, but not overly tight. I pulled it out and wound the watch. The winding of the movement had a nice resistance to it with an almost inaudible vibrating sound as the watch is wound. It has the feel of quality. I then pulled the crown out to the first click which had a solid tactile snap to it. The hands turned smoothly without any play when adjusting the time. The Case – I absolutely love titanium. I couldn’t have enough titanium parts on my mountain bike when I raced them in my 20’s. They were strong and light, but I also loved the color and texture of the metal itself. This case is made of titanium and has a high-quality look to it. The one thing I will admit is that fingerprints and smudges are harder to wipe off than on stainless steel. The case is nicely machined. All the lines are precise and sharp. The crown guard looks solidly constructed as well. The screws that hold the crown guard to the case look to be high quality stainless steel (maybe I’m wrong about the SS part, they could be polished titanium). There are screwed in bolts that hold the straps in place vice the normal spring bars. I also like this feature a lot. The Crystal – The crystal looks very nice and has a nicely colored AR coating. There are some Panerai’s that have a big rounded looking domed crystal. Some people may like that look, but I purposely avoided it on this purchase. I don’t like how much they distort the face (particularly the numbers) when viewed from off-angles. I can see how this may be something that some people find interesting, and maybe someday I will too, but this watch has a relatively flat crystal. The crystal seats uniformly around the entire front of the case’s bezel. The Face – The face of this watch is very nice looking. As with most Panerai’s, it is very simple. I cannot speak to the accuracy of the fonts, but the quality is excellent. Everything is crisp and clear. It has numbers at the 12, 3 and 6 o’clock positions and a small sweeping seconds hand at the 9 o’clock position. Every other hour has a simple hash mark at the hour marker. One of the specs for my search in this Panerai purchase was the sandwich dial. For the newbies out there like me, this just means that instead of having one face with the numbers lumed onto it, this watch has two separate faces sandwiched together with the numbers cut out and the lume in between. The lume on this watch is outstanding. It glows extremely bright (much brighter than it looks in my photo) and lasts for a couple of hours. Here's my attempt at a lume shot (I need to get better at these): The Strap – The watch I bought has the rubber strap with “Officine” on the bottom part and “Panerai” on the top part. The strap seems very tough, but also flexible. I have a rep Bell & Ross that has a rubber strap that is very stiff and wants to push the watch away from the wrist. This strap fits nicely and comfortably right out of the box. The buckle is also machined from titanium. It is nice looking but the edges are a little too sharp. Normally sharp edges would be a plus, but these seem just a tad too sharp and catch on the strap a little more than it should. It has a nicely engraved “Panerai” on the top. I’ve seen a photo of a titanium Panerai on the forum that had a nice black suede strap with black stitching. I plan on buying one to alternate with the rubber strap on this watch because it looked so nice. If anyone knows where I can find a good deal on one please let me know! The Movement – This is where this watch really shines in my opinion. I love looking at a nice movement through a crystal exhibition case back. I started off looking for an automatic Panerai, but once I saw the look of this manual wind 6497, I changed my mind. The photos on the website and the QC pics do not do this movement justice at all. I was concerned that the movement would look cheap in person, but it does not. It looks very nice and I couldn’t be happier. My only complaint is that under extremely close scrutiny, you can just make out some fingerprints on the bridge. I plan to remove the back and clean these off very carefully with a q-tip and tiny amount of alcohol. I don’t plan on touching any other surface, but if this is not recommended, someone please let me know how I should go about this. You can see for yourself the beauty of this watch's movement in the photos. Trust me when I say that it looks better than even these photos make it look. There was an option for an 18,800BPH version of the movement that was $70USD cheaper, but I was told the 21,600BPH movement that I chose was more reliable in the long run. I doubt you could tell much of a difference in the beat rate between the two, being that the seconds hand is so small, but I didn’t want to skimp and purchase what might be a lesser movement. I chose the 21,600 movement, but in all likelyhood, the 18,800BPH movement would have been just fine. I will say it swings around so smoothly that you cannot see any beating of the seconds hand. The watch back has the words “OFFICINE PANERAI – BB1446039 – OP 6725 – TITANIUM – (OP LOGO) – (PAM FISH) 300m - N106/800” nicely engraved on the edge. The engravings are relatively deep and very sharp. The back crystal looks nice as well. The Fit – I have exactly a 7” wrist. I’m not sure how that fits in to the world-wide average, but I feel my wrist is average to slightly below average. The watch looks very well proportioned on the wrist to me. Unlike some of the larger Panerai’s, this 44mm looks just about right. Some of you with smaller wrists may shy away from the bigger watches, but I think this one is a nice compromise. It’s a large watch with a lot of presence, but it does not look awkward or out of place on my 7” wrist. Conclusion: I spent $288USD on this watch. I’ve found the gen selling for around $6700 online. Panerai is not as well known a brand to the general public as other watches, so I doubt most people will even know what it is much less whether it is rep or gen. But something I do believe is that anyone looking at it will recognize it as a beautiful watch. I would not hesitate to take it off and show someone the movement either. Overall the fit-and-finish of this watch are outstanding and well above my expectations. I am very happy with this purchase, and very happy with my experience so far with Andrew at Trusty Time (www.yourtrustytime.com). Again, if there’s anything in my review that wasn’t clear or if you have any additional questions I can answer, don’t hesitate to ask… I hope you’ve enjoyed this review and have found it helpful!

Oh, something I forgot to add. I ordered this watch with the optional Swiss ETA 2836-2 movement vice the Asian clone 3135. I did this based on a few recommendations. It runs at the standard 28,800 BPH and works wonderfully so far. I'm sure that the 3135 clone would have worked great as well, but I went with the ETA based on what others said.

Well, too late for me to read this post! I just received my DSSD from trusty Time. However, I absolutely love it! I posted the review here: http://www.rwg.cc/to...-dssd-ultimate/

Thanks! Yes, C-350 with the AMG sport package and racing wheels. I love it!

Well said Adeodatus, I couldn't agree more! In an effort to bring everyone else back on topic (well, I guess it's still off topic since it's a Rolex review in an Omega section), here is the link to my review on the DSSD: http://www.rwg.cc/topic/142480-review-rolex-deep-sea-sea-dweller-dssd-ultimate/ Enjoy!

Hi guys! Today I’ll be reviewing the Rolex Deep Sea Sea Dweller (DSSD) Ultimate. I want to preface this review by saying that this is my first review on this forum. I’m a relative newbie when it comes to reps, but I have been a lover of fine watches for many many years. Being new to this there may be things I fail to cover or simply do not know, so please don’t hesitate to ask me other questions. And I am always open to suggestions on how to make my reviews better and more valuable to others. Background: I am not a Rolex enthusiast. In fact, I don’t care for the looks of most models of Rolex watches. There are a very few of them that I like, but the DSSD is certainly one of them. I love the look of this watch. It’s hard to pick out exactly what it is that makes me like this model when I do not like most Rolex watches. The ceramic bezel, the caseback, the rehaut and the face are some of the things I like most about it. I have never seen the gen of this watch in person, so my only comparison to the real thing is through photos and YouTube videos. The Dealer: I purchased this watch from Andrew at Trusty Time. He has been outstanding to work with and I plan on leaving a thorough review of my experience with him on his section of this forum later today. Please check it out if you plan to purchase from him. Here is the link to the watch I purchased: http://www.yourtrust...roducts_id=6579 This is the detailed description of the watch copied from the website: ROLSD017 - Deep Sea Dweller SS Blk Asia 3135 Ult V The Ultimate Version of DeepSea ...Same Deep rehaut as Genuine. Crisp Engraving within Lugs, Excellent Pearl and Lume on Dial... Correct 10 on bezel.....Updated Bevelled Edge Date Window....Parts interchangeable (Except Dial and Movt) interchangeable with the Genuine. Made with a Genuine watch as Sample... MOVEMENT: Swiss Eta 2836-2 Movt CASE DIAMETER: 43mm THICKNESS: 17.5mm DIAL COLOR: Black Dial, White Dot Markers, Blue Lume on hour markers and needles and Bezel Pearl. CASE MATERIAL: Solid 316F Stainless Steel BRACELET: SS Oyster Brushed Bracelet with New Design Divers Extension FRONT GLASS: Dome Sapphire crystal BACK GLASS: Solid case back with Titanium Seal, 2 piece case back BEZEL: Full Ceramic Bezel With sandwich numeral insert (modded to Correct "10", bezel RLACC01001, maintaining the Ultimate V's Pearl). Unidirectional rotating Bezel. HACK MOVEMENT: Yes CLASP TYPE: Flip Lock DATE INDICATOR: At 3:00 position (set via crown, beveled edge date window) OTHER REMARKS: Close 6 and 9, one-piece screw down crown with o-ring with thick crown tube (same size as genuine). M Serial numbers and model numbers between lug and rehaut. Waterproof from factory to 5 atm...50m Ordering/Shipping: I ordered this watch (along with a Panerai reviewed elsewhere) on Jan 13th through Andrew’s website. I received a confirmation email immediately. I received QC photos on Jan 15th. The watch arrived on Jan 28th but it had spent a full 5 days in the possession of customs at JFK, so taking out that delay the order-to-receipt time was 10 days which I consider to be excellent processing time from China to the US. The watches came well packaged. Each had a rubber bezel/case guard, was wrapped in thin plastic sheet, then folded up in a lot of bubble wrap and placed inside a thick Styrofoam box. The Styrofoam box was shipped in a standard cardboard box. You could drop this package off a 10 story building and the watches would be fine. First Impression: Talking the watch out, I carefully cut away the plastic film and removed the rubber bezel guard. I was amazed at how nice this watch looked in my hand. The quality of the appearance, and the fit-and-finish of this watch was way better than website photos or QC pictures could represent. This is a beautiful watch. I find myself sitting there like an idiot just staring at it. The watch is heavy and has a very solid feel to it, which I like very much. The top of the case and bracelet are brushed while the sides are polished. This contrast gives it a nice, quality appearance. The ceramic bezel is gorgeous. It is very shiny and the numbers and hash marks are crisp and clean. The case back is awesome and is one of the reasons I bought this watch. I thought that maybe the titanium alloy back would look cheesy in person, but I was wrong. It looks very cool. The band also looks very good. All of the links swivel nice and freely without having a loose feel to them. The Solid End Links (SEL) fit nicely into the case. The clasp works well and is easy to operate and adjust, but this is the first place I noticed a slight lack in quality. More on that later. Here's some photos: Further Investigation: The Crown - The first rep I purchased had a serious issue with the crown and the stem not engaging the movement correctly, so I had to send it back. So the first thing I did was to pull the crown out and test it. The crown unscrewed from the case very smoothly, and had a very solid feel. The crown pulled out nicely and had a nice tactile “click” at each position. Manually winding the watch (in the first position) is smooth with a nice resistance to it. Setting the date (with the second position) was also very nice with each day clicking by with a little snap at each change. The hands also operate very smoothly and without any slop when adjusting the time (at the third position). The Rolex Crown emblem (I think there’s another name for this, but I can’t think of it) looks good on the tip of the crown, and the grooves around the side of the crown are crisp and nicely machined. The Bezel - I then checked the operation of the bezel. It turns nicely without the very stiff resistance I’ve felt on other bezels. Not too tight, but not too loose. The clicking sound as you turn the bezel is also nice. I know it sounds strange, but I’ve turned some bezels and the clicking sounds hollow and tinny which gives an impression of cheapness. This bezel does not have that. The ceramic on the bezel is a deep polished black with a very high-gloss shine to it. I was concerned about the numbers on the bezel looking sloppy on the edges where the white meets the black, but with the naked eye, they are razor sharp. I’ve noticed that some pictures that are blown up very close will show some very slight irregularities, but this cannot be seen with the naked eye. The pearl also looks well constructed. It is perfectly centered in the triangle at the top of the bezel. It is raised with a tiny steel tube and filled with the lume. The top of the lume is rounded and polished and despite its tiny size, looks well made. The grooves around the outside of the bezel are also very nice. I will admit that this is one area I can tell the different between the rep and the gen. The gen’s grooves seem to be more precisely machined with sharper edges. However, in person they are so small that I think it would be very difficult to tell the difference without a loupe. With a high-res photo comparison, this will be one of the parts in which you can see a difference. The Case Back – Like I’ve mentioned, this is one of the things I really like about this watch. The dark titanium alloy back is held to the case with a stainless steel ring. It has a unique look that I’ve not seen on any other watch. The ring has engravings along the edge with “ROLEX OYSTER DEEPSEA – SEA-DWELLER 12800 ft = 3900m” written on it. The engraving is relatively deep and black in color. I don’t know how accurate the font is to the gen but it is crisp and spaced evenly between the edges. The grooves around the bottom edge of the ring are sharp and look well machined. The Bracelet – Like I mentioned earlier, the bracelet is brushed on the top and bottom and polished along the edges. It has nice quality feel to it. There are small screws holding the removable links vice pins, which made sizing the bracelet very easy. I was very careful in removing the pins because I didn’t know what the quality would be like. But when they were out I took a good look at them and they appeared to be solid and well made. The bracelet on the wrist is very comfortable and did not pluck the hairs off my arm like so many other watches do. The Clasp – The clasp on the DSSD is very cool. It folds down on itself and secures with an authoritative snap. Then a smaller clasp folds over the edge of that one to hold everything secure. On mine, this second clasp has a slight defect as can be seen in the photo. The top right arm of the clasp is bent slightly outward and leaves a small gap from the edge of the larger clasp. I think that I could probably wrap it in cloth and tap it lightly back in place with a hammer, but right now it doesn’t bother me very much. I also don’t want to risk damaging it so that it doesn’t work. If anyone has had experience with anything like this before, I’d appreciate your advice! This clasp has a very cool “Glidelock” feature where you pull out the top of the clasp and pull the end of the bracelet in and out for fine adjustment by 1.8mm lengths. Pushing it back down engages teeth in the clasp that holds everything steady. It works very well. It is designed for divers to quickly adjust to the thickness of a wetsuit sleeve, but it also works extremely well to fine tune the precise fit of the bracelet. The very edges of this “glidelock” clasp are not machined very precisely and have a sloppy edge to it. This would be extremely hard for anyone who is not specifically looking for it to notice. The fold out parts of the clasp is probably the one area of this rep that I think could be improved. The build quality is fine, but the printing of the Rolex emblem looks very cheap. You can judge for yourself in the photos. This concerns me very little because the only way anyone would ever see them is if I removed the watch and handed it to someone to inspect. Even then, I’m not sure it’s bad enough to immediately draw attention to it. The Crystal – The crystal looks beautiful. It is not as “domed” as I had anticipated, but it is slightly domed when looking at it from the side. Visually, the crystal sits perfectly. However, if you run your finger around the edge of the crystal (where it meets the bezel) it is not seated exactly flush. I had heard that this was common with this rep, so I was looking for it. Had I not read about it, I may have never noticed. I think that this might be able to be fixed with a case press, but that’s just a guess. Anyone else who’d like to chime in on this, please do. I may try to fix it in the future but as it is now, no one would ever notice this in a million years. Before I received this watch there was some question of whether the rep or the gen had the small “Rolex Crown” etching on the crystal. Well I’m here to clear that up. They both do. It is very, very difficult to see with the naked eye, but if you hold a powerful flashlight at the right angle, it’s there. I managed to catch it in one of the photos. It’s hard to see, but when you can see it, it looks well done. The Face – The face of this watch is gorgeous. It’s very simple which I like. I’m no expert, but everything looks nicely aligned and positioned. I cannot speak to the accuracy of the fonts, but the quality is excellent. Everything is crisp and clear. The lume has a nice blue color when freshly charged, but is not very bright. There are really three levels of brightness on the lume of this watch. The brightest is the hour markers, then the hands, then the pearl. I charged the lume with an extremely powerful aviation flashlight (185 lumens) for 30 seconds. The hour markers were adequately bright and the hands were also adequate but noticeably dimmer than the hour marker. The pearl was barely lit at all. If you wanted to mod this watch, I would say the lume is the first place to start. However for me, it’s not that much of an issue. I will probably leave it as is for some time. The lume also dims down to nothing within about 30 mins. My attempt at the lume shot (I need to get better at these!) The Fit – I have exactly a 7” wrist. I’m not sure how that fits in to the world-wide average, but I feel my wrist is average to slightly below average. The watch looks very well proportioned on the wrist to me. Unlike some of the larger watches such as U-Boat and Panerai, I would imagine that just about anyone could wear this watch without it looking too big in diameter. I will say that the watch is fairly thick and if anything, the watch sits up high off your wrist. But it’s no show stopper. You’d have to be analyzing it to notice this fact. Conclusion: I spent $408USD on this watch. Considering the gen costs more than $10,000USD I’d say I hit a gold mine! I’ve heard that Rolex watches are among the most widely (and cheaply) repped watches around. Even people with gen watches are constantly asked if their watch is real. However, this watch screams quality. I think just about anyone who wasn’t a Rolex enthusiast or AD who took a close look at this watch would have to determine it was real. The watch is absolutely beautiful. The things about it that are not accurate are so minor that they almost don’t warrant notice. I am very happy with this purchase, and very happy with my experience so far with Andrew at Trusty Time (www.yourtrustytime.com). Again, if there’s anything in my review that wasn’t clear or if you have any additional questions I can answer, don’t hesitate to ask. I hope you've all found this review informative and helpful!

Thanks guys. The reviews should be up in a few hours, I'll post links. @Lovecraft, I have exactly a 7" wrist myself, but this Panerai is a 44mm and I think fits my wrist perfectly: I think you should give it a try if you like them!

Sunday drive..

I know this is still a little off the topic, but I just finished photographing my watches and am right now in the process of writing reviews for each that will be posted in the respective Panerai and Rolex areas, as well as a great review for Andrew in the Dealer's section. I will post links to each review as soon as I'm done so that the folks who were following this extremely long (and in my humble opinion awesome) thread will know where to go to see them. Here's a quick picture to wet your whistles!

Thanks a lot guys. I am so excited to finally have them. They are both awesome. I'm going to take some time tomorrow with my daughter's camera (yes, she has a nicer one than I do) and write up a really good review. The DSSD is a seriously nice rep and I love it. But the PAM 177 is unbelievable. I am so much more impressed with it than I thought I'd be. I can't wait to get some photos for you guys. Hopefully tomorrow. Once my PO gets back, it'll be glorious!

Pictures don't seem to want to load with my cellphone for some reason. Here's one more try...

They finally arrived! I'll take some proper pictures later. Right now I'm headed out the Rolex dealer. (Just joking!! Going to buy a new ottoman and see a movie)

Just arrived today!

I can't decide between the first link or the second. They are so similar.

By reusing these kinds of things you're not "erasing" anyone's memory. I think it's the opposite, you honor the memory by keeping the item useful and in most cases probably making it a treasured keepsake. One with a great story. I've been collecting important keepsakes throughout my career. I don't want them to sit in a box in my attic when I could use them for another more practical and meaningful way. Just my opinion!

It's only the forth longest? I think we can do better than that! My watches didn't show up today, but I didn't really expect them to. But if they don't show up tomorrow I think I'm going to drive my car off a bridge!

I doubt that it will arrive today, I'm guessing probably tomorrow, but who knows. I've got the camera ready!

Wow! You are kidding about the size. I thought the TOF was on the bigger side!

Oops, forgot to post the link: http://www.replicamania.com/jaeger-le-coultre-duometre-retrograde-power-reserve-rose-gold.html I'd buy from Trusty or Perfectclones, but Kuvarsit's site has the best pictures I've seen. Really makes the waches look nice. If he's a good dealer, why not check him out and add him to the trusted dealers list?

What do you guys think about this one? I think it looks awesome. Also, anyone ever buy from replicawatches/kuvarsitwatch? I have had someone on this forum say they had a good experience, but I never hear about them anywhere...

Haha, I was just thinking that

wow...

I'm itching to do my own soon. I love living vicariously through others' good fortunes! Thanks for the pics, it's a beautiful watch!