gavidoc

So far my costs are considerably different. Prices of Tudors have gone up while the Rolex Subs have gone down (especially vintage). My latest one was a trade of a Rolex Exp II for the Tudor Sub. Market value of the Exp II is around $2700 right now. I am in the process of making a franken No CG Tudor sub that uses a gen refinished rose dial, a gen Tudor 2784 movement, and an MBW case. So far my cost is hovering around $400 for the parts. Keep in mind though that a Tudor marked 2784 High beat will cost substantially more then a 2783 slower beat. If I wanted to go extreme and put an unfinished original dial, for a snowflake, those can cost around $300 and up. A triangle dial like what is on the one above can be had for as low as $50 up to $200. Great watch. Not a big fan of the triangle date dials but the no date triangle dials are great. What type of ETA are you using?

Thanks UBi. For the life of me I can't remember where I got that bracelet from. It was a rep but could fit the full size Rolex spring bars with no issue. Lani, beautiful pictures. Polexpete, FIX THAT HOUR HAND!!!

I'll chip in. All gens that I have owned over the past 4 years (and own 2 still). . My first. The one that started it all. 9411 blue dial. Serviced at RSC Australia My 2nd. 7928 My 3rd: 9411 black Group shot: My 4th: 9401 black from original owner: My 5th: 7016 from original owner. Few years back I ran into some financial issues nad had to sell them all. Of course before the prices skyrocketed over the last 2 years. After things settled, I always wanted to try and get another blue like my first one. Same glossy service dial and all. I offered to buy back my original Blue when it went on sale on ebay for a lot more hten it sold for last year but the seller refused. So I settled for this: My 6th: 9411 original blue that I sold after 4 days since it wasn't speaking to me the way my original Blue did. It seemed like an imposter. And finally my 7th and last. I searched high and low and found her. The twin of my very first love: 9411 blue just serviced at the RSC Australia with the EXACT same service as my original one. I did an even trade of a gen Exp II for it. And of course, gotta throw into the mix Blue's more famous cousin: Still got her original matte dial and hands too. So get with the program Lani.

If you decide to not pursue this endeavor, I will purchase the dial from you. I could put it to use with a real 9401.

First of all, great find. Watcho sells good stuff and you got this for a great price. That dial is for a 9401. It will not work on a Tudor 390 or a 2483. You could use a 2784 if you so desired but the movement that that dial is normally paired with is the 2776 no date. That is the last dial variation for the 9401 and was discontinued when they issued the 76100. That late 9401 and 9411's used this dial at the same time that the transistion 76100 was being made. While it might seem strange, this dial came with both the snowflake hands as well as the lollipop (not mercedes) hands.

I had one of these and it was a cool watch. The only thing I didn't care for was the extreme concavity (is that a word) of the bezel and the way it met up with th high dome of the crystal. That feature just wasn't aesthetically pleasing to my designer eye so I ended up selling it for $300 more then I had bought it for. What's funny is that I bought it from a friend of a friend but sold it on.....wait for it....watchuseek.

Good call on not getting that 5513. I agree with others who say that you get the newer tritium gloss dial and you'll be wanting a matte. That happened to me. I picked up a '82 5513 from the original owner. Original bracelet and clasp (dated to 82) and the good thing was that it was always serviced at the RSC. bad thing was the replacement Tritium gloss dial and luminova hands (latest service). I got it for a great price but still wanted a matte dial and hands for it and ended up getting some on ebay for it. There was a tirtium 14060 U serial on timezone for $2300 the other day. Incredible price.

Granted to most a real sub bracelet seems cheap and flimsy and if I personally had a modern sub I'd be annoyed at the bracelet as the Sub has evolved from a tool watch to a fashion piece, but I wouldn't have anything else for my 1982 Gen 5513. Wouldn't be the same to have a solid bracelet with SEL's on it. A gen 5513 with 93150 bracelt is very light and comfortable to wear. IF you fit the endlinks properly you get very little rattling noise out of them as the parts that rattle are the actual links and your wrist helps to diminish the sound of them.

Flared balance wheels are also on Gen 6497's. The ETA movement data sheets show the flared balance wheel.

Buying from DSN is like playing Russian Roulette with 3 bullets in the cyclinder. 50/50 chance something isn't kosher. Uncle Jay had issues, I had issues (which were taken care of but still, the number of issues shouldn't have been there) and if you do a search of them, you will be able to read up on them. Search under my name and Uncle Jay's.

1.6 mm screws. 3-4mm long is what you need. Only thing is that the PAM screws while being 1.6mm thread count are larger in diameter then a normal 1.6mm screw. You can use them but there will be a small amount of play when you put the screw in the hole. Check an Ace Hardware store or an older privately owned store that sells individual screws in the rows of bins. Lowes and Depot will not cary them.

At one point I had a Gen Omega Speedmaster '69, Omega Speedy Mk IV, Omega Planet Ocean, two Rolex Tudor Subs, a Sinn U2 and a Sinn 156 that were rotated on a regular basis. I then purchased a few PAM reps and sold all the gens except for my Speedy MK IV and still rotate it in on a regualar basis. I wear a watch for 2 days and then go to the next one.

If you want to see how they make a rolex case, follow this link and then click on the 904L Steel image. 904L

On my 240 from David before the movement died on the first one the date stopped working just as you describe. After I got the replacement I popped the thing open and removed the date wheel (I like the font) before doing this I tried to figureo ut why it wasn't working. Turns out that one of the screws that holds the plate over the keyless works was loose. Once I tightened it up, the date set with no issues.

I own a 243 that had a horrible play to the bezel (as I'm sure a lot of you have submersible pams that do as well). Well, I decided I had to fix the thing and proceeded in removing it. Sylar pointed out that this was a difficult task for some and that if I could provide pictures of what I did that it would be helpful. So here they are. HOpe they help some of you. My 243 is a cartel purchase from Andrew but I don't know of the other submersibles that are available. Hopefully some find this usefull. Attached is also a ppt slide show for easy printing so that you can refer to it while doing the actual work. I explain in this how to remove your bezel without bending it and also how to make it a bi-directional bezel. Powerpoint of the same tutorial: http://webpages.charter.net/jrmyers01/243%20bezel.pps

Ok not Tantalum but I really dig the 172 as those blue hands just POP. Unfortunately you can't get the 172 anymore in a real TI case. Sucks I know. Yet, I really like to have date on my watch so that was a problem as well. Then a thought crossed my mind, what if.......I contacted Davidsen about his 240 and wanted to know if it was possible to do a 240 with a Stainless bezel and crownguard and he said, "not possible as the parts don't match." Bummer I thought. Then he sent me a replacement for my first one which went bellyup and in the package he sent a polished Ti bezel which he worked up for me as he remembered I had originally wanted to create a two tone. So, I popped it on to the 240 I got from him and removed the crownguard off the faulty 240 Take 1. I fixed it so that it would work and then polished it up. Put it on the watch with the brushed lever and my Ti/SS bracelet and now have my dream watch. A two tone 240 that takes its cues from the 172 and the 036. Now if I could just find some blue hands that would work on it...... Here are the pics. They don't look as good now as they did earlier. And here are the wrist shots. Thanks for reading this.

So, as perhaps 10 of you know, I did a Gavidoc Candid Review of the DSN 240 at the beginning of June and the watch was....well....found wanting in a few places. DSN 240 Candid Review Take 1 As a recap here were the issues. 1. Movement was dead. Not on arrival but 24 hours later. 2. No gasket in the crown. 3. Poor crownguard and lever. 4. Huge ding in the case. 5. Goober under the cyclops. It's grade was a C+ on my Gav Grading Scale. Nothing to really right home about. So, on to Take 2. After the initial issues with the 240, I contacted David and after a bit of back and forth, he sent out the replacement. He said he was working on improving the crownguard on the TI model as well as the crown (to accept a gasket) but I was going out of town and wanted a replacement "now." He told me it would be about 2 weeks before it was ready. One week later, it was sent. He even threw in a polished TI bezel free of charge as I had originally contacted him about doing a two tone 240 ala the 172. It arrived in lighting quick speed of 4 days this time and I had it in plenty of time to take on vacation with me. I wore it all that week (I've started the third week of ownership so far) and it is still doing great. Of course, the first thing I did was to look at the improvements. 1. Movement as stated is still going strong so that's a good sign. So problem 1 taken care of. 2. There is now a gasket in the crown and the lever has a tight action on it as a result of the gasket. So another issue taken care of. The crown sits nicely against the case. 3. Crownguard and lever are a huge improvment. The first one I got had the lever slightly too high in the CG (the pin wasn't centered) and didn't tighten down on the crown at all. Also, the opening for the lever was poorly made and was uneven. The lever itself was ok but the tip of it was also uneven. The replacement is much better. The pin is centered and pressure is applied to the crown. The guard is slightly uneven and doesn't sit perfectly flush to the case so it will require a bit of rework to make it perfect. The opening for the lever is very straight and true and the lever itself is now even. Problem 3 was taken care of. Problem 4 was a huge ding in the case. Well it turns out it isn't a ding and is a fault in the maching process of the cases as this one has it too. Just not nearly as noticeable. I can honestly live with this one as you really have to look to see it. Problem 4 not perfectly taken care of as it is still there. Problem 5 was a goobern under the cyclops. The goober is gone on this one now but you can notice a distinct spot of AR between the crystal and the cyclops. Not annoying 100% of the time but it can make telling the date somewhat difficult. My Take 1 had this as well. So while the goober is gone, there is still an existing problem here. So there you have it guys. About 3 weeks after the intial purchase I got a watch that was working and is pretty good. This one is a definate improvment over the first one. If the ding in the case was completely gone and the AR on the crystal taken care of this would be a strong B+ closing in on an A-. As it stands, it's a solid B. A refresher on how my grading works: A+: 100% 1:1 copy to the Gen (unachievable) A : No real flaws except with a loupe and has RC Tritec super lume and serviced movement A-: Serviced movement but has a different brand of super lume. B+: Like A- but with unserviced movement. B : A few noticeable flaws.

I ran that facility up till Jan. of 2007 yet still work with vendors of these types to this day. That is why I want to know the names of the companies you talked with as I would have a vested interest in discussing work opportunities with them on a professional level as this would definatlely help time to market and save on some of my R&D costs which in turn means less of hit to my budget if they are legit and making educated quotes based on machine setup, machine time, finish time, programming time (if any), CAD/CAM time (if any), tolerance requirements, material costs, and time constraints. A another big one is if you had a part in hand when you discussed making these parts with them or was it done over the phone and via pictures and if you went as far as a real quote or a guessitmate based on small talk. These are legitimate questions if you want to say openly that you could have had these made for around $15 after members have paid for them. What you do with comments such as these is make people wonder if V has taken them for a ride. While it might be out of interest in helping others, without substantiating your comments with hard facts (such as written quotes or the names of these companies), you do the opposite. IF true I'll apologize for being a doubting thomas and eat crow but as Rod Tidwell says, "Show...me...the...money." As for accuracy of the parts, while I see some variance in the very tip of the lever and what appears to be a difference of maybe a .5mm radius difference in the opening, I would personally call these a 1:1 replica taking into account tolerance variation which you will also find on the real product between runs and even within the same run.

1200 units, not many for resale, ability to purchase for $3800 (last year's price). What has been the average % price increase on PAM's over the last year? If the watch is in top condition I would personally purchase it for that price. From my experience with vintage Tudor Subs those that had papers would typically sell for approx. 20-25% higher. On vintage Speedy's the price difference was also around 20-25%. On newer watches it is harder to judge but from my personal experiece with real Omegas, the price difference on the aftermarket is more around 10-15% dependent upon model. With some brands, you can actually contact them to have them send you a copy of the original papers for your watch after authentication while others will send you some servicing papers if you have it serviced by the brand. I would buy it if it is that rare and then have it serviced by PAM one time to have new papers to go with the watch before selling.

Tootall, I would love to know your source that can do small watch size parts for around $5 a piece in small quantities via laser machining (remember each CG is 3 parts) including materials. I ran the ID R&D Shop for one of the largest appliance manufacturers in the US for 8 years and outsourced intricate parts to numerous machine shops across the country when the workload was too high for my team to handle. Most of the time I was doing small runs of parts and there was no way in hell any of my vendors would have been able to meet my tolerance requirements, finish requirements, time constraint requirements, numbers requirements, been able to do 3 different parts by CAD then machine, delivered both the CAD data to me and the parts and been able to stay in business with the equipment they used, and the pricing you're talking about. So please, if it is a legit business, I'd love to know who it is. Otherwise, To V, Fantastic work and I'm sorry I didn't commit the first time. If you have any left or plan on doing more I would love to get in on the next batch.

Peepshow you smarta$$. At least tell him how to contact Davidsen as he asked where/HOW. Daborn, Look in the collector sectoin. He's in there. Has his own forum with a way to get in touch with him.

FYI that pics you get might not be the watch you receive. Wasn't so in my case. Also, it might "only" be a $300 rep in our eyes, but keep in mind that in mainland China (not including HK where I think he is) an average family of 3 with two working parents making around $20000 US is doing good.[/] HK it's higher but by a lot. So, a $300 watch to us is a huge chunk of change to someone in China and to some is the equivalent of more then 3 months wages. DSN is doing pretty good with the money he is bringing in for these reps when you think about the fact that they should more then likely cost him less then $100 (I'd be surprised if they cost more then $75) to make.

I have added a closeup of the lever in the first post. Notice how it is pretty rough on the underside which makes me wonder if these are cast and not machined. My 104 from ioffer has a smooth lever on the bottom. Update to the issues: David said he is willing to send me a replacement before I send mine back which is great. He wants me to hold off for 10 days as he said he is improving the model. Seeing as his improvements sometimes aren't what I would call "improvements" I've asked for clarification on what his improvements are going to be. If it is to the lever and crown guard then that is great.

Sinn watches are fantastic but one of the big things I think that make them stand out from a lot of the others available is the technology behind them. I've owned both the U1 and the U2 and there is something about the Uboat steel that you really can't get with simply bead blasting a case. Tegimented parts have a certain look to them. While you could mimic the look of a Sinn, you would never be able to match the fit and finish of the Sinn. Sinn is German engineering to the highest degree and was once very affordable. Unfortunately, with the state of the US dollar it has severely hampered the average consumer from being able to purchase them new at an affordable price as the pricing of one from the only US dealer is normally a couple hundred higher then what you could get the watch for in the EU. Would I buy a rep of a Sinn? Nope. I'd just save up and get the real deal. It's well worth it in this case to save and get the real deal.

Sure thing. I'll take a pic this evening and post it.