gavidoc

That's an ok price with the bracelet. If it had the original dial it would go for between $3000-$3600. So, you put an original dial on it which will run between $500-$700 dependent on the dealer and you would end up paying right in line with what they are going for all original which your's wouldn't be technically. Are the hands original?

Agree. The hard part is sourcing the real movements.

Depends on the RSC. US RSC's are controlled by Rolex USA. Bit stricter then others. I've heard that the Australia service centers are more lax. Easier to get parts.

Unfortunately, one of the BIG misconceptions about Seiko is in the US and possibly to an extent the EU is that Seiko is a cheap watch. Seiko's high end brands are of the same calibre if not better then the likes of Rolex. Yet unlike Rolex who openly sell the high end everywhere and the sister brand everywhere (Tudor), Seiko went the other route. They saw an opportunity to enter the fray as a value low-mid lever product which took the entire watch community by storm. They are extremely influential in the ability to purchase Swiss made watches at reasonable prices today. Yet, to most outside the Pacific Rim none have heard of the Grand Seiko lines. Trully masterful works of art that are sold and viewed in the same light as many of the high-mid swiss brands. As others have said, it's not that Seiko isn't a good watch, it's that their approach to sales and marketing have made them a less desireable brand for replication. Everywhere that the main rep makers appeal to, Seiko isn't to the level of a Rolex or an Omega or even a Breitling and thus, the value behind development of a seiko rep isn't there. Now, if Seiko had a larger marketing approach to the Grand Seiko line, I'd bet that sitting next to the "Rolex" tab on many dealer websites would be a "Seiko" tab. To someone who is bombarded with the sales and marketing of a main swiss brand, the appeal of paying $200 for a watch that can be bought in a Gen version for $400 isn't there. The appeal is in being able to obtain a rep for $200 that is a replication of a $1500 watch. It's all about the branding at that point. The same case can be made for people who will spend $40 for a replica gucci purse when the $14 product at Target is of a better quality. It's the name. As for who's making the money, you'd be surprised at what the "factories" charge for a replica. If I can get a V2 Seadweller with bracelet in China at Lo Hu for $35 from a street vendor who is in turn making a profit, where do you think the rest of the money is going? To the dealer. The same "Cartier Submariner" sold on Eurotimez website for $100 was purchased for $30 from the same street vendor. That extra $70+ goes to the dealer. Not the factory.

Forgot to confirm payment. Now I've bought 2 more. Should only be 2 more tickets to go.

I just purchased 2 more.

Hi Marc, The main issue with the Yuki hands are that they are too long. Thankfully I was able to source a 2nd set of Gen hands.

Hey Ubi, I agree. I lucked out on my gen set. everyone else I know wants $400 or more for them. That's why I'm entertaining the yuki or cwp's as a temp fix. Don't get me started on gen blue inserts. Rare as hens teeth and when they pop up, astronomical prices. Was offered one that was barely legible and you couldn't even see it was blue. Guy wanted $300 for it. Yeah right.

I've never run into issues with stores like what you did. Typically if I wear my gen sub when I go somewhere to negotiate, I get a better price. Perhaps it comes with making sure you know what you're talking about. Example: I just purchased a new Altima with the cash for clunkers program. Traded in an old Bronco that i paid $2000 for 3 years ago and got $4500 for it through the program. Wore my gen to the dealership. Looked at the car, salesman did notice my watch and commented on it. Asked if I wanted to test drive it and I said that I wanted to work out the price first. Then I'd test drive. In the end, with the clunker rebate, they came off 35% on the car. Then I test drove it. While driving it I told them to throw fog lights and an extended warranty into the price and I'd buy. They did. I think alot of it has to do with your attitude and how you present yourself. Present yourself the right way and people will realize that you're wearing that watch not just because you can afford it, but because you know what the hell you're doing and that you got to where you are not because of your money but because you know how to handle the money and situations. I personally would have told the shoemaker to take a hike if he tried to change the price on me like he did to you. I wouldn't have waited till after the work was done.

In my urge to build a franken 9411, It's looking like I'm going to have the lucky fortune of both a black and a blue snowflake dial but I've only got one set of original snowflake hands. For those who have purchased them before, how do the classicwatchparts snowflake hands compare to the yuki hands, or do I have to look at getting both sets to make the perfect set? Thanks,

Well I stand corrected. Same as the 2824. Thanks Ubi. I've had issues with some 2824 hand sizes for the seconds hand, some I haven't. Must have been a tolerance issue on the hand itself.

IIRC the second hand shaft on the 2783/84 is slightly smaller. So some second hands might be hit or miss and the tube might have to be squeezed. IT is such a small amount that many times it isn't an issue.

Nice. So the gen dials wouldn't fit in the older mBW cases huh? I was able to fit a gen dial in my MBW case (more recent purchase from EuroTimez) with no issues. Fit right in.

There are many factors that will affect whether or not you get any sort of refund from paypal. 1. If purchased through ebay, if there is "buyer's protection" tied to the auction.2 2. You follow Paypal's form for further information 3. There are funds in the seller's account to get you the money back. I have had to file disputes through Paypal a total of 3 times. All 3 were for non-functioning or fake product. The first time, paypal found in my favor and I was able to get all the funds back. The second time, paypal found in my favor but no funds were awarded as the seller had emptied his account. I contacted my credit card and they did a charge back against paypal for the funds. I was put on notice via paypal for 6 months IIRC. The third time was just concluded. I purchased a movement and a tudor dial. They arrived and the movement was not functioning and the dial was a fake. Requested a refund per the seller's auctions with no success and opened a dispute. Followed all of Paypal's requests and 3 weeks later, I had been given a full refund. Below is an excerpt from the email they sent me with my refund and the bold was added by me: So, it's a crap shoot if you'll get all yoru money back. I was lucky as the total amount was 140.00 GBP.

But J, Surley you don't mind calling me Shirley while tickling. I remember that Destro MN. I don't want to see the 7016 again till you PVD it. Or is that your 9401? You have so many in the works I forget. Also, I'll respond to the email about the AD. I think I can get an insert but will have to check on the endlinks. I normally have to use one of mine as a "donor" that they give me the used parts back on.

Well tickle me pink and call me shirley. Never knew that and stand corrected. That's the beauty of the Tudors. Always something new to learn. Guess I'll look harder at the modded lollipop hand for the Tudor now.

Thanks for all the compliments guys. Thought I'd try the destro look for a while. If I don't like it, I'll just switch it back. It's sitting on my wrist as I type this with the gen 93150 from my 5513 I just sold (buyer didn't want the bracelet). Eddog, lollipop hand is a big no no for this one. The 9401 never used the lollipop hour hand. Only the early 76100's. Yet I think I might actually try that with a set of clarks I hvae laying around. Would be interesting to see how it turns out as they will fit on hte Gen 76100 but with that being all original, don't know if I want to do that. The image below is of the snowflake dial. Just waiting on it to arrive so I can lume my Gen snowflake hands to match it. I have a 2nd MBW case and a vintage real insert to go on it once the dial arrives. then my Gen 9411 blue will have a fraternal twin as well.

A couple of months ago I got the bug to build myself a snowflake Tudor Submariner 9411. Over the years I've been lucky to make contacts with the secondary market in rolex parts and sent out some feelers for a dial, movement, and hands for a 9411 project. While that one has been slowly coming together I had the chance to put together another sample. This one a 9401 when I was able to source a replacement dial and hands for that were luminova from the RSC HK. Here it is first with it's triangle fraternal twin, my Gen 76100 (which a good friend of mine keeps trying to convince me to sell to him). I did decide to do something different with this since it is using an MBW case and that was to put the crown on left instead of the standard right. That's the beauty of the ETA's used in these Tudor subs and the no date dials. As you can see, the dial is the newer replacement dials that are issued by some RSC's. I've heard that the Sydney RSC still has snowflake dials in stock for the 9401 as they do for the 9411 but that is unconfirmed at this time. And of course, the only route to go with a watch like this is with a real crown and insert. Nothing beats a pearl of the real thing. This build was surprisingly very easy to do and I'm glad I did it. For those interested, here is the parts breakdown. Gen Dial Gen Hands Gen Crown Gen Springbars Gen Insert MBW case that I modded the lug holes and crown guards on Clarks Crystal Clarks Crown Tube ETA 2783 Now I just have to finish the snowflake 9411 and see if the Gen case for it ever turns up that my friend keeps talking about. Hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed building the watch. All I really need to find now is a Gen 2776 for it. Will probably save that for a rainy day though.

Ronin, SeikoUSA may not work on the watch as it is 14 years old. Unless it has changed, typical SeikoUSA practice is to not to do spa work on watches older then 10-15 years as Seikos sold in the US are designed as a throw away commodity. Different story if we were in Japan or the Far East where you can purchase the Grand Seiko lines but those are only servicable in Japan and have to be sent back to the headquarters for work. The Seiko Citizen Forum have some good smiths who work on Seikos. Ken Setser is one.

His stuff isn't bad...if you're getting something like springbars. Picked up a pack from him for my Subs. Work pretty well. I also picked up a spare bezel and insert from that bastard for my Gen 7016 as he said "just like the original." Sure was...If you were a chimp trained to orbit the Earth in a Mercury capsule. Didn't fit, and was junk. Asked for a refund. He balked. I left negative and he left a retalitory negative (before Ebay banned sellers from being able to do that). Then he has the balls to tell me he'll take a refund if I mutually agree to get rid of the negatives. I told him I would so sent the bezel back and he refunded me. I then told him to eat sh!t as I was going to keep my negative so that slimeball would be stuck with his. If you search his feedback, there I am. gavidoc is my ebay id as well. 548 feedback positive and 1 negative from this jacka$$ is what I have. Pull your fingernails out. It will be more pleasant then dealing with Faisal unless you bought something simple like springbars or you like to orbit the Earth in a Sputnik satellite....and you're a dog.

Ok, I'm nuts about Tudor Subs. Even if I don't need one, if I see one that has a good price, I buy it and figure out the logistics later. This one is 50/50 that I'll keep right now but at the price I couldn't pass it up. Lo and behold to my wonderful surprise a treat when I opened up the package today. We all know how the 1680's originally came with the brushed silver date wheels before being butchered by the RSC's with white datewheels and I even knew that Rolex used Silver datewheels in the silver dialed Tudor watches that had the 2824-1 but went away from them when they moved to the 2824-2. Never had I seen one in a Tudor Sub though. Seeing as only one model # for the Tudor Sub used the 2824-1 and for a short period of time and that was the transition sub 76100. As we all know with Rolex, a transition period is just that. Move out the old nad move in the new. The 76100's are really hard to age due to the varying serial #'s used. Reason I say this is I have a Tudor 9411 that has a 971XXX serial yet this 76100 has a 227XXX serial #. I know that the later 9411 and 9401's (late 9XXXXX) serials were issued with the triangle dials and standard mercedes hands and that the early 76100's had a 9411 stamped caseback and lollipop hour hand and the later ones a 76100 caseback stamp and mercedes hands. This shows that what I know about the 76100 is now very little. These are trully the anomaly of the Tudor Subs. Anyway, enough with the rambling and lets look at what I'm talking about! For the first time to my eyes, a 76100 with a silver date wheel. The more subtle brushing of the 76100 silver date wheel (almost looks white in some lighting) and a closeup with it's older yet better condition 9411 blue brother with white datewheel.

That is absolutely beautiful. Fantastic work.

beautiful. Would love to know what type of decal paper you use and where it can be purchased. Thanks

Yep. It sure is.

Here are a couple: