gavidoc

If it has the metal black insert, that type of bezel will be easier to pop off on your own. They are similar to the way a Speedmaster bezel is put on. Same method. USe a knife to pop it off (or you could easily wedge some razor blades into the seam and stack them up at the 4 corners). Once you get a portion past the bezel lip, it will pop right off. As for reinstalling, I've always used a big Socket Wrench that fits around the crystal. On my Gen Speedy, I lined up the new bezel so the tachy was correct, taped it on to the crystal with clear box tape, put a screw through a piece of wood, chucked it into my drill press and pressed down (with socket applied to the bezel and around the crystal. Took 30 mins. to do.

More then welcome. I've never seen them in a Sub movement. Only the Tudor equivalent of the Rolex DateJust. Even then only on the silver dial ones and not all of them. Only appear to have been used on the 2824-1 movement watches. Never seen a silver date wheel on any other movement. I once owned a 2824-2 Tudor that had a white datewheel. I figure that if you send these in for service to a RSC, they replace it with a white date wheel just like the vintage date subs.

They did make them for the 2824 movements. Very rare but they exist. I just missed out on one as I was outbid at the last minute.

That is really great condition stephane. Great addition. 1 question: is the date wheel white or silver?

Just use the Mrs. and give her a rep$ she'll never notice.

Agree with everything you said. I traded an Exp II with box and papers for my Near Mint 9411 that was serviced at the RSC Australia in May. Considering how much the Exp II have dropped in value on the 2nd hand market, I think I did really good. When comparing the vintage Tudor Subs to their more common Rolex counterparts, they have increased in demand and price while the Rolex have dropped in value. 5513's can be found for $3500 and white dial 1680's in the $4200 range. Unheard of even last year yet last year you could get a 9411 for around 2k for a great example and they sat around forever if even at $2500. I was able to get my 5513 from 1982 (with original dial and hands and the service dial and hands) for just a little more then I paid for my Tudor Sub. Never would have happened even early last year. I would pass on that 9401 if over 3k and no bracelet. Overpriced. A no bracelet 9401 should go for around the 2.5 mark dependent upon condition. CLoser to 2k if the dial and hands are rough.

AHHHH...No papers. That's why. I wouldn't touch an MN without provenance and papers and that's if I knew the seller. IIRC last one I saw go that had the DeComm paper went for close to 6k through a private person to person sale. That was a few months ago though.

Looks correct to me.

You might want to do some research on that balance and regulator as they don't look normal for a Tudor 2784 (different from all the ones I've seen).

I'm with Ubi. That dial appears to be a relume. Values for Tudor Subs (9401 and 9411) are definately NOT cheap. Poor condition ones from reputable sellers on forums can easily fetch around 2k now. The later 76100 and 79090's are still hovering around the 2k mark for a pristine example but be prepared to shell out (as Ubi said) 3k for a pristine Tudor Snowflake. MN's go for more then 5k though. IF you are lucky, you can find a correct Tudor movement (2784) for these 9411's for considerably less then $500 but you've got to search. They pop up on occasion but are normally run ragged. I was lucky and got a NM one for less then $200. Debating on using it for a watch myself or holding onto it as a spare for my Gen 9411. What's good about the gen movement is that if you are lucky and are able to source a real case, you could easily take it to an RSC and they'd fix it up like a gen and put real parts on instead of the aftermarket pieces. Technically if you're willing to shell out the bones, you could take a real dial/movement/bezel/bezel insert/crown watch with an aftermarket case to the RSC and they'd replace the case. Cost you a pretty penny but would propbaly be less then the current rate for a NM 9411 would run you.

beautiful. Where did you source the case from? Looks pretty good.

Watchco is a great group of guys. I've gotten two of these dials before from them. One was $59 IIRC and hte other was for $100. I was outbid on their last one for $104. I don't know about other RSC's but for some reason the Australian RSC's don't have lumed dials. The dials are delivered there in an unlumed fashion and they are lumed as needed by either the RSC or by an outside vendor. I own and have owned another snowflake Tudor that were serviced at the Australian RSC and both were like this (lumed by the RSC) as they were Tritium marked service dials. If someone sent in a 9401 to the RSC in Australia, they would put either a snowflake service dial (if they have any) on or they would put one of these on it. Lumed there in Luminova even though it is tritium marked.

If the hands are luminova, I would relume them. new hands can be obtained from RSC's. My blue has white luminova snowflake hands on it. If they are white tritium, I'd relume the dial.

Guys, Are you sure about those hands? Those pictures make it hard to say for certain IMO due to the angles. When compared to the second hand on my blue snowflake which was just serviced at the RSC Australia, the tail of the second hand looks longer (based on some of those pictures). The hour hand and minute hand lengths look correct from some of those images. Rule of Thumb that was pointed out to me: Simple way to check to see if the hands are indeed correct is to line them all up at the 6 or 9 index. The end of the hour hand will be right on the inner edge of the marker. The minute hand tip will be on the outer edge of the marker. The center of the second hand diamond will be in line with the inner edge of the marker and the "tip" will be in line with the outer edge of the marker.

Here is another picture of the watch in question under less glaring light. As you can see, the watch has a darker blue then all the reps as far as I can tell. Image from Rolexreference page and a feature that no rep has copied yet and I wish they would, a microadjustment different from the current DSSD.

If you look at the prices of a white dial 1680 right now, they go for around $4400. I dont' know how much a case from Phong is but consider the prices of the other gen parts. hands: Easily $250-$350+ for good ones. Dial: White dials I'd say are around $400. I dont' know about a red dial though. Insert: New ones from my AD are $100. That is their set price. Crowns: IIRC they charge $35 for one. Tube: Same, $35 (I honestly don't remember). Crystal: Tropic 127's can be found easily but I think they average around $75. Movement: Around $1000? Not including the case, if you went with all gen parts and the phong case you're looking at roughly $1850 + case to recreate a white dial 1680 that won't appreciate in value. Pay more for a matching dial and hand set regarding the tritium and it could be around $2000. I paid $850 for a matching MkIII dial and hand set for my Gen 5513 and got a great price as I was being quoted $1000 for them and I know they are original. I'd also go gen in that case.

Agree. Aftermarket with the correct pearl are close but still not the same. Sorry about the hands thing Ubi. Didn't notice you weren't referring to those. Agree that the dials have different lume. Current Rolex service snowflake dials are thick like the Beyeler's even though the service centers lume them since they are delivered unlumed.

Well done. Only thing on that beauty that is not original is the insert. All else IMO is original to the watch. I disagree with Ubi and believe the dial and hands have the original lume. It appears to have the correct thickness for 7016's and 7021's. Below are three images. The first two are mine, the 2nd is not. Watch one is a very early serial # 9411 that I owned (it was a 798XXX which puts it at the beginning of the 9411 production as the 7021 and 7016's ended shortly before that). The 2nd is a 7016 that was dated to I 68 and had the 7528 caseback stamp. The third is also a 7016 but with snowflake. Your lume is similar to these. I could see how the yak pee yellow of the indices might have you concerned but I wouldn't be.

Beautiful post. Again, awesome watches and I'd call those hands and dial modified gens.

Very nice watches but no offense (and perhaps this is just a pet peeve of mine) but don't say something is ALL GEN when the main parts besides the motor are not. In essence, what you're saying is that the only thing Gen is the movement, insert (?), and bracelet (?). Hard to tell when you mention a rep case and modified hands and dial. Still though, fantastic watches. The Ubi-Tudor is a nice piece and you aren't afraid to call it the Ubi-Tudor. Do the same with the other one, and call it a spade when it is. Nothing wrong with it. Would be interested in seeing a shot of the points on the ND case crown guards as they look different from Gens that I have seen on the bottom side. My apologies if you view this as a thread crap as that is not the intention.

I did have a source but it dried up. The dials show up from time to time on th eforums and Ebay.

in that case......Great deal. Enjoy the watches you got.

I've got a few questions and I hope you don't mind. Based on your story it is clear that your watch is a put together. So, my questions are: 1. Was your base 16013 have the same dial that you put on it and bezel? 2. Did the other guy know that this was a put together and not 100% original if you put a different dial and hands on it? 3. Did you tell the other guy that it was a put together? If you answered yes to one of the above, I say you got a hell of a deal. If you answered no to 2 and 3 then I say you screwed the other guy.

Look on the vintage rolex forum.

You can find 14060M's for around $2500-$3000. Dates for around $3000-$3500. 5513 around $3500-$4000. 1680's around $4500-$5000. Tudor Subs are a bit different. 7928: $2000-$2500 7016: $2000 7021: $2500-$3000 9401: $2000-$2500 9411: $2200-$3000 76100: $1500-$2000 79090: $1500-$2000 79190: $1200-$2000 These are more rough estimates. If you look that is.