Rolexman

Open her up. Probably a loose screw that is jamming some gears. The gritty feel when winding is the main spring slipping. This is normal because it does not run and therefor has no way to release tension. Slipping protects from over winding.

So it looks manufacturer knows about it since the watch You got actually was set at -30 secs/day

Keen eye. Indeed.

106 Hours... Stil running at 237 amp and +60 s/day

PS: I think the rate gain will stabilise after some winds and the oils are distributed over the main spring coils. Like I said before. It is normal for a movement to speed up when the amp decreases. This clone p3000 does that a bit more than usual but the freshly oiled barrels could cause some uneven power distribution. Will keep monitoring it but this is such a great!!!!!! movement.

Rolexman the time keeping characteristics are not the best, there is a reason the gen has a different and almost opposed gear train configuration, that is most likely were smooth and consistent transfer on power is lost as it makes its way to the escapement. The other problem is not every rep owner can adjust their watch nor should they and definitely not all have a timegrapher. This needs further looking into once it reaches the general rep population we will know what the real deal is and how bad the time keeping characteristics of the movement is. Thanks and great write up, keep up the good work!!!!!

Thanks M! When timekeeping (rate) is involved the gear train usually has no influence. It is caused by the power supply (barrel) and power release (balance). So yes, the gear train is designed completely different than the gen but in my opinion that has nothing to do with the bad iso.

PS: still running for 94h now....

Excellent work Rolexman, reminds me of the old days and The Zigmeisters reviews

Thanks buddy.

Some PR answers. It is now surpassing the 80h power reserve which is phenomenal!!

Here are some timegrapher pictures which show how the movement performs throughout the PR cycle. Personally I think the rate gain is a bit much. Some is normal by the decrease of amplitude.

Causes for the rate gain can be plural but my guess is the design is flawed. They just added another barrel not caring about performance (throughout even power transfer). It gives a larger PR so who cares about time keeping.... That and a hair spring that is probably not very isochron due to a poor dog leg (technical stuff). Just remember if you want to wind this watch every 2 days to regulate it 30 seconds slow when fully wound. Then you will get a pretty accurate time keeping.

Fully wound

24h

48h

72h

....And replate the bridges because they are made out of a brass coloured metal which will shine through. But technically possible. A job for Marlin

That timegrapher comes with 52 degrees as the default and must be adjusted, I would assume that as the high beat 6497-2 which beats the same as this movement at 21600vph it should also use a 44 degree setting, but can't be sure as this is an in house movement and there are no specs on it yet.

Indeed. Also the lift does nothing for the rate and beat just the amp. At full wind and 52 lift it hits the 340 amp. That is why I believe the lift is somewhere around 47-48. but I will check as soon as I have checked the power reserve.

I did read the full review before asking my question. I can only see the tip of the cannon pinion in your pictures. I was wondering if you had one like the hour wheel picture. The cap was asked to further discuss the construction. Thanks.

I see. The canon pinion is capped. But you do not see that cap because the minute hand is constructed with a very long tube and a closed centre. Presumably just plated silver. This mimics the look of a cap. Therefor the 'cap' you see when everything is assembled is not the canon pinion. I did not inspect the hands very thoroughly but I believe the cap to be apart of the minute hand which can not be separated. Have to look into that though. The way the dial and movement bond no other hands will ever fit.

 Did you happen to take a picture of the cannon pinion?  Does this version also have a cap that fits over the cannon pinion?  Thanks again!!!!

It can be seen on multiple pictures. The cap is of no importance on this movement. Read the review and you get your answer

Updated see post #1.

Enjoy

AR seems to be improved. Nice.

Does it, by any chance, have the function of the gen where crown position 1 changes the hour only?

Nope.

I just pulled the movement apart and I am so excited I want to share my first findings. Off course pictures and more details will follow soon.

Nothing on this movement is fake. Everything works like it should, is extremely well finished and oiled to perfection throughout. It looks as if they designed this movement from the ground up. Twin barrel and all!

Everyone who screams it is not worth the extra $100 is full of it. It's absolutely worth it!

First of all a big thanks to Toro Bravo for a lightning fast delivery and smooth transaction. You can't go wrong with him and he is definitely on his way to being one of the best dealers throughout the boards.

So here it is guys. My review and opinion on the new p3000 clone. I will not go into the watch itself because member Ale has done some very extensive research and has aded all the info to his 'panerai bible' so look it up. I will start with a short 'management summary' before I continue to the pictures.

This movement is not based on an existing movement. It has 2 barrels and the movement design mimics the genuine p3000 design. It is however completely different. Genuine parts are absolutely not interchangeable. I have never taken apart a genuine p3000 so I can only go by internet pictures. If I would have to set my money on a manufacturer of the p3000 clone it would be the factory that produces the IWC Jones movement. In terms of finishing and design I get the same vibe. Besides both barrels the movement was oiled properly and clean. Parts were finished well according to rep standards. Some plating issues here and there and discolouration of metal. But when dealing with Chinese movements this is normal and it does not affect long term reliability. The p3000 clone was easy to take apart and is absolutely serviceable. Getting it back together is a different story. The gear train is extremely wobbly and the gear train plate very difficult to assemble. You need a special tweezer in order to reach all the gears and align them properly with the jewels. It was perhaps the hardest bridge I have ever had to install. Especially because spare parts are non existent. So if you break one little pivot say bye bye to the movement. Also because most jewel holes lay very deep it is almost impossible to see what you are doing when oiling them. Even with a 10x loupe you are almost working in the dark... But when finished this movement runs like a champ and I see no reason why it would be any less reliable than an 6497. I think this p3000 clone is on par. I can not yet comment of the power reserve as I immediately torn the movement apart to review but I suspect it will reach those 72h without a problem.

The details:

When I first saw the p3000 when it came out a couple of weeks ago I was very excited. The p9000 clones could not get my motor started as they did not clone any of it's functions. Only the aesthetics was looked after with some decorative plates. A pig in a dress or whatever you want to call it. But this new p3000 clone however was a whole different story. I could clearly see this was not based an existing movement (e.g. 7750/ 6497/2824 etc). So I did not hesitate and ordered one right away to review...

Upon arrival I could not take my eyes from the back. The movement just looks gorgeous.

Nice detail inside case back

They even hid the ugly movement tabs underneath the pretty ones lol.

Before taking the movement apart I put it on the timegrapher. It runs at 21.600 bph and the amplitude was ok but rate and beat were off. As this new movement has a free sprung balance (so I thought) I was a bit terrified as regulating it can be a b!tch.

However upon closer inspection I noticed the rate stud hidden order the bridge. Thank god! That means the stellar screws on the balance are for show and this movement can be regulated like any other.

Here you can see it more clearly with the decorative plate removed. An incabloc shock absorber which is also very reliable.

Solid bridge and underside balance view.

Clean "POL" engraving underneath the balance. No clue what it stands for.

The oiled barrel jewels

Look at the 3 layered dial!!!!!.... That will need a special canon pinion right?

Huh?.. That is a deep hole.

No special canon pinion but special hands. So forget replacing them..

Here you can see the base plate with the dial removed. Nicely finished and clean. No date option and a normal keyless which has some grease...

Some part close ups..

Here is the barrel bridge removed. Nice and solid.

The 2 barrels exposed

The underside of the barrel bridge (I used foil with this movement as the brushed plates are prone to scratches)

Barrel 1 (clean but not oiled)

Barrel 2 (clean but not oiled)

Here you can see both main springs. The barrel 2 mainspring is longer.

Here is the gear train. Completely different than the gen p3000 with a aded pinion to transfer the power to the top of the movement: the canon pinion (= minute wheel)

The pinion I'm talking about

Other parts are also well finished

Final shot on the timegrapher taken a hour ago after full service and regulation. Performing like a gen ...

Here is a genuine p3000 (pictures from Google search) and you can see the similarities and differences in bridges and gears.

Well that was all folks. Hope you liked the review. Based on my findings I would say the watch is definitely worth the extra $100. Although not a 100% the same in appearance and function as the p3000 it comes very close. Maybe the closest we will ever see? It is a reliable movement and it will give you that extra dimension of a genuine feeling. I'm still testing it so unfortunately I can not yet comment on the power reserve whether it actually is 72h. But I think it will come close.

Tanks for reading

Mark

Your advice was excellent CJ.... I'm also guessing here. Only way to be sure is to examine it in person off course.

Good luck on the repair and you are right. If it is a keeper a full service is worth every penny!

You probably pressed the hack between the base and cover plate. So it is out of position. The fact that the hack is now wedging itself between the base and cover plate means other parts that normally are aligned are now out of position. This could be the cause of other functions now not working properly anymore.

Watch sent and tracking working. Only a matter of days before the movement review guys. Kudos to Toro's super fast service.

no way!!, 72 hours power reserve is impossible...

Why? Most 6497copies (ST36) are capable of reaching 52 hours with one barrel.

Great pics! Love the details.

Mine says hi

That sounds awesome, M! Looking forward to it!

Sent from my SHV-E250S using Tapatalk 2

Thanks. Just approved the QC pics

I bought one myself from toro and will be tearing down the movement as soon as I get it to do a review... I'm very curious

Stem too short or crown clutch problem. Easy fix.

Looking good....

I'd like to order one today.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Yes sir. One number 36 to go! Coming right up....

Love the analogy you found. But it's ok