manodeoro

1 hour ago, Jovi75 said:

 

I’manage a workshop of mec.machining.... so before to change it... I’d like to modify the case I have...
Otherwise I’ll change it ...
Ok, ok, i know I’m mad .


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I'm so sorry ... I forgot to post the pics of my 5513 bezel assembly

So here are the Tropic and bezel parts in the order they should come OVER the rehaut of the case :

1 - Tropic

2 - retaining ring

3 - washer (please no comment about the crazy shape guys 😀 I like my bezels really tight)

4 - bezel

Here is the bezel mounted over the Tropic

And here is the inner diameter of the Tropic ... more or less 28mm

So, considering the inner diameter of your rehaut is more or less 28.8mm as you showed here 

You must forget about reworking your case to the right dimensions.

The only way to achieve that would be to do as I did to modd my Silix 6538 case in a gen specs A/6538 :

- shave the rehaut of your case on a lathe

- build a custom rehaut

- press it on the case

That was THE way for me as the Silx case, apart from the rehaut, was really good compared to a gen.

But your case is 50 to 70% wrong 😉 so forget about reworking it and buy a Cartel watch as @marrickvilleboy wrote and use the case as a start.

54 minutes ago, Jovi75 said:

Do you have a link ?.
Now I’m eagger


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There's no link IMHO.

Just contact the TDs here and ask them for a Cartel 5513 ... then see what they offer, compare the prices and make your choice.

I have had good luck with '580' hoods from WSO except for a couple of the soldered tubes that came loose.  I was using a set with a Mary folded bracelet and after the tubes came loose I removed the tubes and installed the hoods without them.  Seems to work Ok.  A little bit floppy but Ok. 
The tubes might have come loose because of misalignment of the tubes and holes in the lugs.  Besides that, I doubt the solder joints are very strong to begin with.
 
My WSO 580 hoods will fit a cartel '5513' or a JMB '1016' with very little detailing.  This may be because of not having the internal tubes.
Try the hoods and spring bars without a bracelet to see if the hoods are a good fit with the case.  Sometimes they need a little bending or filing.
If you get the spring bars in the dead end holes in a JMB '1016' case with WSO 580 type hoods, you are in Deep Sheet.  

2 hours ago, By-Tor said:

Yeah and the fun was that the reps were dirt cheap. Paul sold EVERYTHING for $100 in his CARZY SALE. Yes some of the reps were [censored] but some were really good... like the Bond Seamaster that even had gen-like bracelet with authentic construction (that tricky tube & pin system).

 

Bought this Noob TT Sub for $150 from a dealer. Amazing quality.

 

 

Here's my gen 16710 and Noob GMT Master. These were about $200. Wrong hand stack but who gives a [censored]. They were cheap and FUN.

 

Here's gen 16613 and the old Noob 16613 (these were going for $170  back in the day). I paid $150.

 

If you ever decide to let that Noob TT go ...  my wrist is ready for her.

Guys !!!

The more I read your posts and the more I'm sorry for not having joined this forum earlier.

I joined November 2016, almost an "old man" already and quickly jumped into the build game (the first "watch" I bought was a 6538 case from Silix).

It feels like the game was more "have fun" than "show off" some years earlier, with all those cheap reps far from perfect but highly upgradable (is it an english word ? "upgradable" ?).

That's why I'm more in 5 digits and earlier, beyond the fact that these models were much more elegant ... I love reworking cases and drilling lugs, engraving, designing and building dials almost "from scratch".

38 minutes ago, madasboot said:

Very interesting manodeoro.

thank you for sharing.

here, the detail of an early rolex 3646 (panerai) caseback

and here some shots of my 3646 case (unfortunatelly my watchsmith lost the rhodium disk that separated the bezel from the case body):

 

You're welcome

and WOW !!! I love that caseback ... already uploaded the pic to use it as a template for engravings cause that 3646 could be one of my future build 

1 hour ago, madasboot said:

ahah... so true.

Palp helped me twice.

I guess that at some point I produced some autocad drawings to guide modifications on a 6152 jackson case (sources were scarce back in 2006). Lots of shaving, resizing and reshaping.

I do not remember if it was Palp himself or a metallurgist fellow but the result is such that i still keep the case with later updates (decent caseback and double shield bezel as in gen specs).

I got the reshaped case back with the note: too much metal out.

Finepics helped with dial reluming on a pioneer McSherry layered dial.

Later on came the VDBroucke 3646 prototype 3 piece case with brass ring... few were produced from a block of Staybrite... same material used in the 40s...

Some documents about Staybrite and Stainless Steel

https://hempel-metals.com/UserFiles/File/The Metallurgical Evolution of Staybrite.pdf

https://hempel-metals.com/UserFiles/File/75_Years.pdf

EDIT : sorry ... the links dont work ... will try to upload elsewhere

EDIT 2 : links OK

8 hours ago, jmb said:

You have way more patience than I, my friend!

In 1652 Axel Ostenstiern (a Swedish politician) wrote that "patience is the daughter of necessity"

And as you say in the USA ... "necessity is the mother of invention" 

So I could say that it all starts with "necessity" 😉 and that I don't have the machines and I don't have big money to send so that people would do those things for me ... so I have to be "patient" and "inventive"

But that would be only partially true.

I do all that because I like that, finding ways to do things and do these things.

And the process of the building (really building I mean ... not paying people to build for me) is as much as important as the final result

3 hours ago, jmb said:

Coming along nicely.

thanks Justin ... I still have some work to do on the case, lume the dial and hands and put everything together

One last pic before supper

Hi guys,

It's been a long time since my last post on that topic.

And now I see that all my pics are gone so I will have to reupload.

That build proved to be much more difficult than I thought but today I'm close to finish that watch.

I still have some work to do on it but I'm feel I'm really close.
So here is a little teaser

9 hours ago, Jovi75 said:

 

Big man may you send to me the measure of your case to be sure that it’s good mine ?.

When you can ....no hurry .... thanks


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I don't have a 5513 case 😕  BUT I have a 5513 bezel assembly 😊 on my A/6538 so I will disassemble, take measurements and post it there.

Probably today cause it's Saturday so I have some time.

BTW : I'm only 5'7" so "big man" is not really appropriate 😉 though I really prefer that than "shorty" 😂

15 hours ago, Nanuq said:

 

Ah well that explains it. In my world, no real Rolex exists after 1974.

 

Well ... as a vintage lover (and an old man) I cannot but agree

That said, 1984 was not such a bad year for watches in general and 5513s especially 

2 hours ago, Jovi75 said:

I purchased it used for 90€...



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So not that bad, even if it's still too much for such a case IMHO.

I have a bezel assembly from watchman408 (alligoat provided a link some post upper).

The insert is definitely not really good but the bezel assembly is OK and works perfectly.

If you want to chez before ordering one I can take some pics of the one I have and tell you the dimensions.

That way you can check if your case can take such a bezel assembly (I don't think so but ... you never know).

What could be interesting is to measure :

1 - exterior diameter of the rehaut on your case

2 - dial opening (inside smallest diameter of the rehaut) on your case

3 - overall diameter on your dial

With those infos you can check is your case can take your dial and if it can take, with some lathe work, the aftermarket 5513 bezel assembly.

I can't say if it's my phone or your pic but I really don't see any detail.
Could you please put another pic, really close-up and with a better focus ?

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BTW ... I don't want to be intrusive but would you mind telling us where you bought your case and the range of price ?

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What I meant writing « nice and décent »

Just some specific parts, like a decent pie-pan dial, that you cant get in Rep ... well, as far as I know

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N1 thanks

 

 

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Reading what alligoat, automatico and hologramet, all really seasoned members, have written here ... may I suggest you to stop buying so called gen parts (which are in fact aftermarket), put everything aside, read a lot, learn and then go back to the workbench ?

It will help you saving money (at least not lise any) and get a nice and decent 5513 at the end of the watch.

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Let us know how it worked  

On 10/13/2018 at 12:04 PM, earloflondon said:

I guess I need something like that after taking the measurements correctly

https://tapsndies.com/metric-tap-m25-x-35

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Those are very high grade IMHO.

You can find some cheaper on the bay http://globalaircrafttool.com/25x35hssspecialmetrichandtap.aspx

Just check your measurements twice as those taps are never cheap (unless you buy some chinese) so you really want to buy the accurate at first.

8 hours ago, earloflondon said:

Thanks for the info,

Yes, I would probably go that way if I had the correct measurement tool or device. That's my biggest problem, as though I have a micrometer to measure the diameter of the part of the tube that is to be screwed into the case, I have no way of measuring the thread distance. I think I'd better go to a watchmaker

Is there any place where I can get the tap with those parameter values mate?



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If there is a big toolshop in your area you could try to go there with your tube.

If they sell taps they will have what is needed for measurement ... or search ebay for a tap thread jauge

I received the package from riyi. I have this 6 mm crown and I need to tap the case. I couldn't find out which one to use. How to measure the tube? Here is the pic. Not do informative he?

 

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Measure the diameter D of the « screw » on the tube and the distance L between 2 threads.

If the measurements are ... let’s say ... D=2.5 and L=0.35 then the right tap is, in metric system, M2.5x0.35.

Hope this help but ask for more if needed.

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18 hours ago, automatico said:

"+ 100 and I must agree ... though you don't like Air-Kings"

 

Ha!

I do like AKs and still have a few...5500 type and 14000M/14010M (M = cal 3130).  I gathered the 5500 models up when they were fairly cheap and the 'M's when they were not very popular...plus one lonely 1002, now with a Yuki 'Explorer' dial.

I even have a few replica oversize 36mm AKs from years past with 3-6-9 dials like an Explorer.  I have worn a black dial 36mm AK rep quite a bit and never had anyone notice it was too big, not even rolex types. 

Now genuine AKs have swelled up to 40mm and the 'too big' 3-6-9 Explorers are too small.

That was a joke ... refeering to you post here 

I really like "vintage" Air-Kings ... 14000 and previous models ... first because of their size (my wrist is 6.5) and because they stay "under the radar" even  when patinated and shiny.

I have only 2 cause I'm really new to that game but I consider strating an AKs collection ... 14000 OOTB and my recent 5500 build here 

that still need a lot of casework but I already like it.

Next one will be a 4499 ... I'm already working both on dial design and case and I'm wondering how I'll do about the crown ... without going to Gen I mean. 

So that one could be a long-term project

Then perhaps an older one, 4499 with second at 6:00, or a two-tone 5507

3 hours ago, automatico said:

"She has a few that you can pick from that are pretty sad looking."

 

I too have noticed some of the higher priced dial offerings from the so called  'Premier Dealers" are not too hot.

 

 

"When I asked about a nicer (dial) there was a 500 min $24.95 Per."

 

Probably the same dials with better QC.

My guess is the 'Premier Dealers' and dial makers are all in cahoots and the dial makers sell to them almost exclusively.

 

 

"I just don’t think there’s magic to the guys that have the market cornered."

 

I have a friend in the printing business and he figured it would cost $3000 to $5000 to get started in the dial printing business (dials without applied markers), including 2 or 3 cliché plates but not counting the dial blanks.  He also said the same thing I did...applying the lume is the ONE thing that requires special training and/or practice. 

His estimate was for a high quality manually operated precision pad printer setup...not a low priced unit from eBay. 

Not counting the cost of the pad printer, each dial would probably cost $20 to $40 to make if you apply your own lume.  If the dials are good enough to sell for $150 each...there is $$ to be made after paying for the printer.

 

If a dial has two or more colors of letters/markers it means each dial will have to be printed 2 or 3 times so a high precision pad printer is required.  You will also need an air brush and compressor to paint the dial blanks plus paint, thinner, print ink, and lume material.  If you want 'Singer' Beyeler' etc stamped on the dial blanks, it will require a custom made stamp of some sort.

A dedicated hobbyist could master the pad printing 'art' in a few months...if they were serious about it and have good eye to hand coordination and dexterity.

 

+ 100 and I must agre ... though you don't like Air-Kings

For some time I've been "studying" the technics with a friend who does his own pad printings (no dials and he already said "no" when I asked).

Though his equipment is "medium grade" he gets really go results, even with multiple colors projects (I'm 100% certain he could print impressive dials if he only agreed to do).

So the more I work with Illustrator and decals, the more I consider pad printing my own dials.

16 hours ago, Dawagner said:

On 10/8/2018 at 11:31 PM, Jovanotti said:

So for a Dial *like* this she sort of hastily threw out a min order of 500 at $24.95. I imagine she didn’t really think I was serious. I think 500 is a bit absurd. But 200 I can live with and if I’m stuck with inventory for a while I’ll survive. I see the structural supply issue as getting worse not better and I am willing to take a long term view on ideas like this. Apologies again it was a 5513 reference Dial but the price reflects the enamel paint job so not highly relevant.


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HR did a single dial for me a couple times. Hope they didnt stop doing that. Been pretty happy with them.

They still do ... silk screen printing

They have "updated" the price, about $110 for custom printing + $49 for dial

8 hours ago, Nanuq said:

Oh yes, that's a beauty. Very tasty!

Thank you very much  

That has been my very first build, the one during which I learned almost everything I know now :

- reworking case and crownguards

- drilling and chamfering lugs

- polishing and brushing steel

- building dials

So, though I have achieved some better builds after that one, it remains my favorite. 

@automatico ... what's your problem with Air-Kings ?

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Tried to blue to case by heating with lighter, but obtained a yellowish and brownish colour pattern.

 

And the dial. It goes slowly, but gradually getting a more worn out look. All unintentionally

 

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I have a color/temperature chart somewhere so I'll search for it and post it here.

BTW ... may I suppose your cork says "vieillit dans nos chais" ?

So you're a French wine fan, congrats !!!

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@Nanuq ... here's a little teaser