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Hi, I'm new here. I have a few simple watches* and now I'm in the mood to make a franken. I have no watchmaking experience but I've begun to buy some of the tools. This is a pattern for me. I bought guitars, I learned to play guitar, and then I learned to repair and build guitars. I bought a car, I learned to work on it, and then I pulled and installed clutches and engines and various parts to keep things running when I was in school. I really like the 6541 Milgauss look, because it's a little different. So, I have a few questions. I'm seeking advice and opinions. CASE: (1) How much to spend? (2) Something gen like (TOO NEW TO POST A LINK)cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260734819614&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNAFP:US:1123 - OR - something newly made, like a phong case? MOVEMENT: Where to source? What to spend? Difficulties involved in mixing and matching calibres to cases that weren't originally issued together? DIAL: NDTrading has dials, hands, and a whole dial/hands/movement set - but I believe the hands and dial are replica. Which brings me to the question you've all addressed before: If the case is a replica, the dial is a replica, the hands are replica, and the movement is genuine, is it a franken, or is it a replica? If the movement is the only real part in it, is it still a Rolex? I guess I think if the case were gen and the movement gen, even if they're for other ref., it's still a Rolex. Thank you! * a few simple watches means, mkII LRRP (1655 style), two skx007 mods similar to sm300, and a replica seamaster bond. Time for something a little more Rolex-like.

It IS NTD. NDtrading = Natalie's Passion = np0234. All same.

The most likely dial sources are NDtrading, Yuki & Phong. ebay is also worth searching.

The case then is wrong? i want to make some like these I see these in NDtrading and i love but is a little expensive for a rep.... (i know that hace a genuine movement, and some other gen parts but is franken rep not a gen, and 4000 usd is too much for these). Anyone know how i can make a decent rep for less money? thanks

[spun off from my Work-in-Progress thread.] I don't think there's any dispute that DW's 7032 has the most accurate Homeplate dial in the aftermarket. Unfortunately, it's let down by hands that are crude representations of the actual units. So what's a Monte Carlo owner to do? To the best of my knowledge, there are five options other than DW's: Jewelry & Watch, NDTrading, Classic Watch Parts, Yuki, and... Tudor. (Good luck finding gens!) At the time I bought this 7032, I also ordered a CWP handset as it looked to be the best available. Yuki's 7032 handset was out of stock for a long time, but returned to shelves about two months ago. I never considered buying the expensive NDT or Phong sets for reasons cited below. So let's compare three of those handsets with the real deal. The photo is obviously a composite, but I've taken care to resize all objects to scale: HAND LENGTHS (in mm) Genuine (est) Center-Tip Center-Tail Overall Sweep 14.6 4.0 18.6 Hour 9.1 2.1 11.2 Minute 13.2 2.1 15.3 DW Center-Tip Center-Tail Overall Sweep 13.8 2.7 16.5 Hour 9.1 2.5 11.6 Minute 13.6 2.6 16.2 CWP Center-Tip Center-Tail Overall Sweep 13.1 4.0 17.1 Hour 8.2 2.4 10.6 Minute 12.0 2.5 14.5 Yuki Center-Tip Center-Tail Overall Sweep 14.3 3.0 17.3 Hour 9.2 1.9 11.1 Minute 13.6 1.9 15.5 None of the aftermarket hands is a perfect match, so what's to be done? Let's keep it simple: 1. Get the Yuki handset, but keep the DW subdial hands. 2. Shorten the tip of the Yuki minute hand until it falls within the white minute track. 3. Strip/repaint the DW subdial hands so that they are white, with unpainted centers. In addition to being the closest to the gens in size and shape, Yuki's hands are the only ones that are faceted i.e. they're creased down the center. (This is more visible in the pictures at the bottom.) All other suppliers have minute and hour hands that are flat surfaces. For this reason alone, the Yuki handset is the only one worth considering. Unfortunately, Yuki's subdial hands are very different from the gen's. They're well-made and painted the right way, but they're also too thin to be credible. Here's a better look at the DW and Yuki sweep hands, flipped over. DW's sweep has an unsightly bulge around the center, and Yuki's color better matches the orange on the 5-10 minute sector. Nevertheless, DW's shade of orange is still an improvement over the pinkish hands of Phong and NDT. On my watch, I've kept the CWP sweep hand. It doesn't reach the minute numerals (as on the gen), but the tip is not as noticeable as the accurately long tail. Also, I'd like to get some return for sunk costs! I hope this has been helpful to present and future Association members.

Well the J&W case is the choice i would make if money were not an issue.. The NDtrading cases seem to have problems fitting gen crystals sometimes.. I would also be interested to hear some first hand info on the Yuki case as I am planning a similar build for this summer. As long as all the engraving is correct on the yuki case, then I think most other issues could be machined or modded out for considerably less cost that the Phong case.

A couple of years ago, while doing some reconnaissance for my Phase I '42, I located a reasonable albino Daytona dial (from a website that has since vanished into the ether), but, ultimately, I just was not sufficiently enamored with that model to pursue it..............& I think I have enough Daytonas to keep me off the streets. I wanted to use their dial, but NDtrading wanted $850 for the dial alone. When I asked why such an excessive price, they said 'dial has special paint'. I suspect, as is usually the case, the same dial will eventually begin to appear in the listings of many of our usual sources & for a reasonable price. Anyway, this cost me about $2,500 & everything except the dial & insert is gen (many parts NOS), & since I did the work myself, I know that everything is in correct working order & correct for the model Based on what I have seen, highly unlikely. And the biggest question, again, based on what I have seen, is how many (serious) problems would be lurking inside. So, if you have no other options, that is certainly 1 way to get an albino '42. But I think you can also see that you are paying dearly for the chance.

@freddy333, speaking of rare birds, when are you going to build one of these? I gotta ask, remember, I am living vicariously through you guys Also, when cruising through NDTrading's site recently, I saw this for $4k Just out of curiosity, what are the odds of someone buying this franken and actually getting one that looks as good as that picture?

Okay... let's give this another shot. The font, finish and everything about the dial looks like it's one of these: NDTrading Which would answer questions No. 2 and 3

That's what I'm thinking. If I had any money to do this, I would try the following; a. buy on of these http://www.1-pc8838.com/omse01021-planet-ocean-chrono-ssss-blkbezorg-7750-p-5858.html or this http://www.1-pc8838.com/zn00101-defy-extreme-dlcru-white-asia-7750-28800-p-7408.html b. buy one of these (and hope I actually do get this case style) http://www.kingshowbox.com/goods.php?id=3924 c. buy the dial (this is the expensive part, and I did have an aftermarket dial and decided to sell it a few months back) Now, I'd have to prep the movement by removing the date wheel and mechanism since the Daytona does not need it, but I would hope that at that point, I could install the dial, swap the hands and case from the rep and have a decent seconds at 9 Daytona with proper subdial spacing. Of course, I would have to be lucky in the following points; 1. The A7750 rep movement from the Zenith/Omega which is advertised to have subdial spacing same as El Primero actually does have said subdail spacing. 2. The dial would physically fit the case without being too small or way too big. 3. The hands from the rep Daytona would actually fit the rep movement from the Zenith/Omega (China parts are known to be of the non-standard status most of the time). 4. The distance from the dial face to the stem is the same on both A7750 movements after the date mechanism is removed from the Zenith one making the case tube to stem alignment work. At the end of the day, I still would be spending a good bit for parts that may need extensive modding to fit together if they can be fitted together at all. About $300 a peice for the two reps and about a grand for the dial (or a few hundred anyway for an aftermarket, if anybody would sell me one). I suppose Phong or NDTrading may be able to source a dial, but it still would cost. I am sure everyone is tired of hearing me cry baby over this issue by now, but consider the following. If I could conceivably do this on my bench at home and come up with something feasible, wouldn't it be that much easier for a rep producer, with access to all the mentioned parts, do the same? We have seen the rep factories turn out copies of the DSSD and the ProPlof, both are watches that have very proprietary designs that do not transfer to make other rep models, then why is it such a chore for them to do this with parts they already produce? They will probably have to do the dial design from scratch, but they all do dials so well these days, I would not think that be a major hurdle. As far as what we want as collectors not being a blip on the rep makers radar, I do feel that some of our input they do go with eventually. If they truly did not care, would we see the recently upgraded DRSDs and Subs that have better pearls, proper case markings, etc.? Would we be seeing Josh putting R and D into the vintage Explorer II, even down to the folded link bracelet, right size hands and dial markers that come to the edge of the rehaut? Oh well, I'll let this drop (as applause is heard from the crowd..), but I do like the debate on this, and maybe one day we will see either a cool franken kit to emerge, or a full on rep come to market. Ciao

Hi everyone. This is my first post in this forum, but I've been spending a lot of time reading previous post to gather information on my first replica project. I'd learned so much from this forum, and I'm about to make a purchase on Joshua's 1680 as a base watch for a 5517. But there are some questions I want to clear before I buy anything... 1. I'm planning to use NDTrading's dial with the feets relocated for 2846. Will the diameter fit the case? 2. Is tropic 19 crystal used in gen 5517? If I want to fit a gen crystal, do I need JMB's retention ring for that? And who's JMB? An address I can contact him would be great. 3. Will gen tube & crown fit this case? 4. Will aftermarket insert for gen fit? And any suggestions, tips and past experience are very much appreciated. Although, this is not my first time working with watches, but this IS my first time building a replica/tribute watch, so I need all the help I can get. Thanks for your time. Wabbit

Due to the sudden appearance of a number of '59 'Big Log' 20mm vintage 7206 bracelets on ebay, most of which appear to be coming from Asia (generally, Hong Kong), I think it is safe to assume that this bracelet is now being repped & aftermarket parts sellers (such as NDTrading) are attempting to scam buyers. It strains credulity to think that a half dozen rarely seen bracelets would suddenly flood the market & all coming from the same corner of the world (a corner that has become notorious, in the past year, for repping vintage Rolex bracelets with great accuracy). On the positive side, I would expect these soon to be available through our normal channels at the usual aftermarket prices.

The PT dial is slightly larger than my ndTrading dial. The ndT dial would have worked in the PT case as it didnt fall through the rehaut... would be very close but it would work. I'll go measure mine, hang on... Ok I'm back PT1680 case rehaut 25.89mm ndTrading 1680 dial 26.16mm PT1680 dial 27.03mm MBW 1665 dial 26.50 Even thought the ndT dial is smaller, the datewindow lines up perfect. The only difference is that the diameter is smaller and the minute markers are shorter because of the smaller outside dia. Looks correct when mounted into the case. There should also be no problems mounting a gen dial (without mods) into this case as the PT dial is already larger than the MBW dials. This PT dial actually looks really good now. The matt clearcoat and 5min marker modding made a BIG difference. I see no need to put in a more expensive dial after doing this mod. dizz

Well here it is... We all know the flaws of the new vintages, but we are starting to figure out the fix's for them. JMB got the retaining ring figured out and this is an easy mod for the datewindow that everyone can do with the right tools. The datewindow on the 1680 dial is way too small and barely lets the font show through and also makes the cyclops appear out of alignment. Mods: Pulled the dial off used very small square file to slowly open the window touched up filed edges with black paint, worked the 5min markers a bit and sprayed dial with matt clearcoat. Its not "perfect" but dont forget this pic is supersized. At normal size with the naked eye, it looks pretty damn good compared to before. The opening is aprox 75% larger than before. I dont have a before pic but you guys will instantly see what i mean. I removed material mostly from the inside edge and some from the bottom to expose more of the font. This is a pic from the website showing how the datewindow is too small and almost covers the font on the left side of the window. Here is my Puretime dial after mods Looks 100x better. It really needed the matt clearcoat to add some texture to the plastic looking finish. This watch just keeps getting better and better. Its actually more fun doing all this work instead of buying an MBW. Swapping a dial is easy, but modding the datewindow and refinishing it adds a sense of pride to the build. I guess if you wanted to get really fancy, you could even bevel the edges of the window to make it perfect, but i didnt want to run the risk of my touchup paint not matching and making a mess of it. Oh and YES the gen/aftermarket dial fit perfect and datewindow aligned bang on. I used the NDtrading dial as an example while i removed material. I suspect all the cyclops alignment issues are caused from the too small and right justified datewindow. Hopefully this fixes all the datewindow issues. Good luck and have fun dizz

Well here it is... Pulled the dial off used very small square file to slowly open the window touched up filed edges with black paint, worked the 5min markers a bit and sprayed dial with matt clearcoat. Its not "perfect" but dont forget this pic is supersized. At normal size with the naked eye, it looks pretty damn good compared to before. The opening is aprox 75% larger than before. I dont have a before pic but you guys will instantly see what i mean. I removed material mostly from the inside edge and some from the bottom to expose more of the font. This is a pic from the website showing how the datewindow is too small and almost covers the font on the left side of the window. Here is my Puretime dial after mods Looks 100x better. It really needed the matt clearcoat to add some texture to the plastic looking finish. This watch just keeps getting better and better. Its actually more fun doing all this work instead of buying an MBW. Swapping a dial is easy, but modding the datewindow and refinishing it adds a sense of pride to the build. I guess if you wanted to get really fancy, you could even bevel the edges of the window to make it perfect, but i didnt want to run the risk of my touchup paint not matching and making a mess of it. cheers dizz [edit - oh and YES the gen/aftermarket dial fit perfect and datewindow aligned. I used the NDtrading dial as an example while i removed material. I suspect all the cyclops alignment issues are caused from the too small and right justified datewindow]

Sorry for necro-post.....but would anyone know if ingod44 dial (26.5mm wide) will fit correctly in Phongs 1655 case set? I believe Phong's dials, like NDTrading dials are 27.3mm. I know both fit the 1570 movement...but it seems that Phong and NDT provide little bit more diameter on the dial edge compared to Ingod's dial...you can even tell by the comparison of the dials. So is the GEN Rolex dial 26.5 like Ingod's....because Ingod seems to refer that he remakes the dial on actual Rolex blank?

Sorry for necro-post.....but would anyone know if ingod44 dial (26.5mm wide) will fit correctly in Phongs 1655 case set? I believe Phong's dials, like NDTrading dials are 27.3mm. I know both fit the 1570 movement...but it seems that Phong and NDT provide little bit more diameter on the dial edge compared to Ingod's dial...you can even tell by the comparison of the dials. So is the GEN Rolex dial 26.5 like Ingod's....because Ingod seems to refer that he remakes the dial on actual Rolex blank?

In lieu of feet, these dials have a flange that runs perpendicular to the dial face which is pressed down around the outer edge of the movement's pillar (main) plate. The dial is held (onto the movement) by friction The dial's form also has a 2nd purpose, which is to hold the datewheel in place. Without the dial fitted, the datewheel would pop off the movement as soon as the date change mechanism trips. In addition to the 6542, early Subs & other 103x-based Rolex dials are made similarly (the dial pictured above is a 1050s DJ). And, yes, NDtrading's dial is made the same way.

If anyone is interested, NDtrading sells a red dial 6542 (I had been considering using this until I received the white 1) (These dials are made to fit a gen 103x movement - they have no feet &, instead, clamp onto the pillar plate, so you cannot mod them for use with another movement unless its dimensions exactly match the 103x's)

I'm no Tudor specialist, but... it doesn't look half bad. It's better than the dials being sold by both Jewelryandwatch and Yukiwatch, and about on par with the NDTrading dial. The only big issue I can detect -other than what looks to be a temporary datewheel- is that there should be a tiny gap between the homeplates and the minute track. I would also be tempted to yellow those indices a bit, though you can find gens with white plates. Colors look a bit odd. Maybe the photo was taken with Josh's camera?

Well this is the beginning of the end of yet another watch project... I started this one in 2007.. worked on it for a bit, then forgot about it for months, then worked on it some more... now 3 years later, its well... almost done Started with this. Bought it used of this forum. I think its from paul or trusty, not sure. took it all apart to start the crown guards Modded the guards into pointed guards from the late 60's Got the guards done... bezel insert is nice and new.... that will change soon though. Also clarks t-19 crystal installed. Gen Rolex tube installed and triplock crown aged and faded the insert... Got it back together.. hhmmm not good enough.. ripped it apart again and did some more work to the CG's Now its finally done.. well sort of. I need a proper clasp on the bracelet and prob an NDtrading or Yuki 5513 dial. Im going to go with a plain dial instead of the comex dial. I knows its not 100% correct but I like it. All my frankens are so nice and pretty and I wanted one old one that was just beaten up and looked like it mad of had a service 5 or 10 years ago, so newer crystal and crown anyways. Bezel insert would be original by the looks of it Specs: Old Wo-Mart 5514 case modded Gen spring bars Gen 24-703 crown aftermarket triplock tube clarks T-19 dome crystal Modded, aged and faded bezel insert ETA 2846 slow beat movement Dial and hands aged Caseback sanded down All new lubed gaskets Gen 9315 Rolex folded bracelet with 380 end links. Bought from parts drawer of local certified Rolex watchsmith Future mods: NDtrading or Yuki 5513 dial Proper 9315 clasp or 93150 Clasp aged to match bracelet. Hope you enjoyed it. This is by far the most comfortable watch I've ever worn. Dizz

Pics not sufficient to properly qualify the case (but looks similar to most aftermarket cases), but the bracelet is clearly low-end. Were it me, I would stick with DW, Phong, NDtrading or Yuki.

Andy, there was a brief discussion on 1016s a couple of weeks ago. Genuine 1016 cases are very rare, and very dear when they do show up. Yuki is an option, but one that hasn't been tested yet. It looks good in the pictures, but it's hard to gauge the accuracy from the angles the shots were taken. NDTrading has a pricey replacement available. It may also be due to the angles at which the photos were taken, but I think it looks terrible. MBK sells the best out-of-the-box 1016, and it's also a good base for projects (as shown by Lanikai's and crockey's gilt-dial Explorers). The dimensions are a bit off, though. The problem with most of the cheaper (i.e. $250 and lower) 1016 reps is that they're based on old rep Datejusts that are all over the place, dimensionally. You can take a close look at a couple of mine here. One came from Hont, and the other was from Narikaa. Pretty much the same case. That said, I would like to give Silix's ROLS048 a try if I were embarking on another cheapo 1016 project! It looks like a promising base, with more softly-contoured lugs, thicker midsection, and lugholes in roughly the right place. The caseback is very different, though.

My two cents: I spent a fair bit of time looking for an accurate rep DRSD dial. The conclusion is that there is none available. Each maker product has some flaws. Note that the current one avialable on the market is a replica of Mark 4 dial. The charactersitcs are "skiinny Coronet" and closed 6 (610 m). Let's start with Ebay seller: New model of NDTrading (the older ones are better) Older NDTrading (A geninue collector even said "he paid his lession to be able to tell the difference". Lastly, I found that MQ offers the best dial on the market. I think if you can widen the indices on 6 & 9 o' clock in The Zigmeister's tritum lume (like what Freddy did on his dial). That will make a rather perfect one.

Brightlight: My mistake. I just checked eBay and the case I remembered was complete but dented, and sold for $1500. The one you were looking at sounds like a phenomenal deal. If you do decide to go with Yuki, I'd be very interested to know your impressions of the case. It looks good in pictures, unlike the terrible 1016 replacement being sold -for $900!- by NDTrading. Finally, I would like to apologize for raising the price of your dial by an extra five bucks! I also noticed that the day after you won it, the same Hong Kong-based seller had five more with a Buy-It-Now of $111... It looks like a good dial with crisp printing of the text and markers. The numerals are more rounded than is usual, but I've seen gen examples on which the tritium goes pretty much where it pleases. My biggest reservation concerns the '6', which appears to have levitated a bit!