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Last year I bought a NDTrading dial like that and was going to put it in a MBW case but ended up selling off the stuff. I just can't justify having that much $$$$ tied up in a rep. I guess I'm just a cheap skate but I'd rather invest that in a gen. I don't mind having $300 or so in a rep but when it comes to $700-$800...that's a bit much.

Yes, those are all gen Rolex calibers (movements). NDTrading dials are designed to fit gen Rolex movements. If you want to use their dials on an ETA, you need to clip off the dial feet & either epoxy them back onto the dial in the correct positions for an ETA or use dial dots or some other method of affixing the dial to the top of the movement.

usual suspects: Michael Young- classicwatchparts.com in Hong Kong ndtradingcorp.com- Natalie, don't know if she'll sell an insert separately jewelryandwatch.com- don't know if Phong has this part And you'll have to see if they are the correct insert- we noticed yesterday that NDTrading was selling a 5508 insert which had a little metal ring around the pearl- whereas the correct 5508 insert would be an all acrylic pearl.

I went to NDTrading's site and the bezel insert they're showing on the 5508 now has a small metal ring around the pearl. The one that I got from them 3-4 months ago was just an acrylic pearl- no metal surround. This is also a NDT 5508 with a 1520 movement, 6mm Rolex crown, and gilt hands not quite yet 'aged' to match the dial lume- it's still a work in progress. Also, I still need to age the pearl which will just be a little staining to darken it- easier than messing with the hands which entails pulling the movement and taking off the hands.

Have you missed all of the threads regarding Vietnamese cases & NDTrading?

Stephane -- What is the story on the case back? Where is it from (NDTrading?????)? What case did you fit it to (MBW???????)? Do you have more pics?

I was trying to be kind, but Doc is exactly correct. Gen (with appropriately faded bezel) in top left corner I still like the watch though. Just needs a better dial. You have to be very careful with NDTrading dials -- a couple are pretty respectable, but many are obvious aftermarket jobs.

Hello, I have a question about those NDTrading or other cases like this one. Do you know if the bezel is better than the one on the MBW cases? Regards Chris

My dial on left (which is the same as yours, except that it has been relumed), NDTrading on right

Wondering if a NDTrading 1680 dial will fit my MBW without any alterations to the dial? Anyone have any input or experience?

I do all my own stunts.......and Mods. The case is from NDTrading. Here are a few more pics:

Some members might find this informative -- The DRSD dial at left was purchased on ebay a couple of months ago. The seller told me he purchased the dial from another seller who did not know the original source, but said it was not NDTrading. I have purchased dials from NDTrading & know their products fairly well & I have never seen this version of the dial available from them or any of the other usual dial sellers. Ziggyfied Preciouswatches at left, unmodified NDTrading at right Version 1 Gen

NOBODY This watch from Paul isn't too terrible: http://www.pam111.com/product_info.php?cPa...roducts_id=1811 This watch from Silix has an eta: http://www.silix-prime.com/product.asp?id=1851 Andrew and Josh might also have some of the vintage "Bond" type subs, all with flaws. OR you can go to NDTrading and buy expensive parts and build a Bond sub, but their cases don't necessarily take an eta movement- more like a gen Rolex 1030/1530/1520 movt. Building an NDT Bond will run $2000-2500 or more w/ a Rolex movt. The search for a Bond sub isn't an easy one.

Diesel -- Let me clarify. This is the original dial, which had slightly too-narrow & oddly colored index markers, but was otherwise very good as is This is the dial after Ziggy relumed it & then I applied a light coat of clear, matte varnish. (I think Ziggy had to scrape the area around each of the index markers before he added the new lume, which changed the surface texture of the dial. Then, when I applied the varnish, it left those little mottled areas around each of the index markers where the dial had been scraped smooth. I have seen 2 dials that Rolex had relumed many years ago (before Tritium was taken off the market) & the surface had a similar appearance. So that is another thing I am still debating back & forth.) The 2nd dial is my MBW dial, which has pretty correct looking index markers compared to most of the gen DRSDs I have seen. The appearance of the index markers on the 1st dial is about the same whether it is seen through the crystal or not. As usual, Ziggy did an outstanding job on the lume. However, I think the new, thicker lume intensifies the (slightly too-narrow) appearance of the 6 & 9 index markers, which, although they were not perfect, really did not bother me before the relume. So I have been wondering whether I should see if Ziggy can redo those 2 index markers to widen them a bit or whether they fit within the range of normalcy for a gen Double Red???? Toomuchgear -- Not an NDtrading, but similar. I got this dial a few months ago on ebay, but I have not seen another like it since then. Unlike the NDtrading dials, the crown is dead on accurate for a V1 DRSD (the NDtrading crowns are similar to later DRSDs) & the font spacing is much better. But, as I mentioned above, now the index markers look off (too narrow), but I am not sure if it is just me or if they are too narrow for a DRSD?????? By the way, this watch contains a gen 1570, which fits the MBW DRSD case like a glove (after removing 1/2mm around the outside of the 1570's date disc holder) With that in mind, do you think it is worth asking the Zigmeister to take another shot at widening the 2 index markers (&/or re-texturizing the area around all of the markers to remove the mottled spots)? What do you (all) think?

I don't think so, but you could try- or try with a $15-20 rep 5513 insert. PMWF lists the size for the 5513 insert, OD is like 36.50, ID is 30.30mm. Maybe Natalie at NDTrading would sell you the insert only- never hurts to ask. It's not the greatest, but if you stain the pearl, it might look OK.

Yes a genuine white 1680. The reds are crazy $$$ and just an unfinished dial would cost many thousands. If you try to fit a 1680 dial into the MBW it will be garbage (resale) and that's not good. You would ruin the red dial trying to put it into a MBW case because the date dials are 1mm or so larger and would have to be trimmed down. On the other hand NDTrading's case would accept the genuine dial, but they are BIG $$$ for aftermarket cases. Go for a 5513 dial since that's what the MBW case was copied from. They look better anyway in my opinion and you can always resell it later. A 5513 dial would fit perfectly without modification. That's my plan when or if the dollar ever comes back.

I'm thinking NDTrading, only it's a 6538 with the 6mm crown, not the correct 8mm Brevet crown. Lume on dial markers looks pretty white, which is better than the stock NDT dials which are too yellow IMO. It cost me a little over $2200 to build a 5508- $800 for the case, $240 for the dial, $880 for a 1520 plus $200 to service, hands, crystal and crown/tube- maybe it's closer to $2300! So his price for the franken isn't too bad. That bezel insert is straight from NDT- signature flat pearl!

I prefer the NDTrading case. If you look at the area where the "ears" of the endlink rest, you can see the edging/step of the NDT case in the picture here The watch at the bottom with the smooth fold-over is the NDT: As well as at the base of the crown/tube: Now the MBW has only a smooth transition from where the caseback covers to the edging of the case shown here: here are a few more of the NDT. I would say it is like a Channel that that surrounds the caseback: I hope this helps ....

Paul's DRSD has a working HE valve, and I would think this one should also. But, I don't think a gen T-39 will fit or a gen insert for that matter. To do that, you have to go to the MBW ($350+) or up to the Vietnamese cases from NDtrading or Jewelry and Watch. But it might still be a fun watch to play with- trim the cg's, reglue the crystal for WR, put a good pearl in the insert, maybe even a gen crown and aftermarket tube, drill the lugholes, grease the o-rings and have it water tested. If you did the work yourself, you could probably do it for under $500 including the tools and the watch.

The cases (most likely out of Viet Nam) come from NDtrading & are custom made to fit the 1570. Without any mods, they are the most accurate vintage Rolex cases I have seen. But whether these bare cases are worth nearly 3 times the cost of an entire MBW watch is a judgment call.

Yes & no. It all depends on which flaws (every aftermarket dial has a different set of flaws) offend you the least. If you are interested, I have a new (unused) NDtrading DRSD dial for sale & I can save you some money. PM me if you are interested.

I fully agree with you. It's how the watch is globaly that makes it vintage or not: aged dial, light scratches here and there, second hand or used crystal... All these parameters must be there for me otherwise I feel like wearing a modern watch. Yep, sure. I have only one NDTrading (5513), and was a bit disappointed though. It's currently being redone. Would you really recommend NDT for 1665s? I mean their price is so high that it would put my trilogy at an insane value.

Not sure if it will be the best, but I appreciate the compliment. After Ziggy does his stuff on the dial (which is already a winner in my book), I think this watch will definitely raise the bar again. And I agree with you about the NDtrading and similar dials. The quality of these aftermarket dials (none of these are repainted, they are all newly made from scratch) is evident when you compare them to the MBW dials. But, on the other hand, we often lose sight of the fact that the MBW dials will easily fool the average Rolex owner as well as 99% of the public (and that is not an exaggeration). We are MUCH more critical than anyone we might typically run into in a bar or restaurant. Even most of the sales clerks in ADs would never be able to tell an MBW dial from an NDtrading, even if they knew what to look for (this is not a recommendation to try to fool your local AD, because store managers & watchmakers usually CAN tell the difference).

Freddy, it looks like you're gearing up for the best DRSD project the community has ever seen- I'm excited to see how it turns out! I wish you hadn't brought my attention to the flaws with the aftermarket dials- ignorance is bliss! But I am glad that I've got a better feel for what could be improved. It's an interesting process of deciding 'which' flaws are less irritating to yourself, individually, and then accepting the flaws that are inherent to the chosen dial. When I looked at the MBK dials, I couldn't get over the difference in the quality of the NDtrading or 're-painted' dials, in the sense that they "just looked better" to me, even though as I've come to discover, they're actually not necessarily any more 'accurate'. As time has gone on, I've become less concerned with absolute fidelity to the original, and am more sensitive to the quality of appearance, even if somewhat flawed.

You know, I haven't even done a lot of looking at the GMT that NDtrading offers- I'd just assumed it was 1:1 like their SD and supposedly their vintage sub and explorer. If it's not suitable as a base, then it looks like the idea of an easy to adapt GMT is even further removed from possibility than I'd originally believed. I agree that it's not worth it to go overboard with mods and $$ trying to get a chinese rep to achieve the same effect as the better options. I have tried to avoid the idea of going into the dangerous territory of the DW daytonas, but I have a feeling it might be the best choice given the options and potential $$ involved. I'm not sure if you'll still be checking this one, toomuchgear- but if you could give me some of your thoughts on the decision you made to go with a DW, I would be glad to hear what your reasoning was at the time...and whether you'd completed your sub projects before you lept off that bridge.