lanikai Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 IMO.. the closest to the genuine Rolex steel has been produced in the 316F steel.. Within the 300 ss grade there are multiple grades of the, 302,..304 and the 316's (this being the strongest and best in resisting corrosion).. all have a certain amount of Chromium in them and nickel, iron being the main component.. the chromium added to iron along with other metals give iron it "Stainless Steel" name,.. "resistant" to corrosion with more strength and less weight with the 316L steel my wrists turns a little blackish.. even with the 914 steel in the gen. Rolex, maybe due to the nickel in the metal.. dunno.. and I haven't worn the DSSD long enough in the day to see if this is the case with the 316F also.. It is the "finish" that gives any metal it's final "look", the genuine Rolex is no exception.. very fine brushed "satin" finish.. lends to more sheen than the coarser brushed finish IMO the new DSSD I have from Perfect clones comes the closest to the genuine Rolex steel in aesthetics... the genuine Rolex must have a good amount of chromium in it, my statement comes from the fact that when I take a capecod cloth to it the cloth does not turn as soot black as the 316L steel does.. making me think there is more nickel in the 316L than chromium.. ergo the reason the steel is darker and oxidizes faster. The black soot like residue forms on the cape code or polishing rag when you use a metal polish due to the oxidation being removed from the metal. I took a little piece of capecod to the DSSD 316F and found much, much less oxidation or nickel (or whatever alloy it is) on the cloth.. Regardless of my thought's here are some pics of the DSSD 316F next to my gen. Rolex Explorer First here is the old 316L DSSD next to the gen. .. dull, dark and no sheen in comparison to the genuine Perfect Clones new DSSD 316F steel next to the gen... focus viewing the links on the bracelet that are lite up .. Not the same height in the pics.. but you get the point I tried to get the watches exactly in the same location for the next 2 images.. I had to do them obviously separate form each other. I could not get the different sized links to be placed exactly the same.. but close enough. Gen. so, ..imo the makers nailed this one.. and I will repeat it has to do with the finish just as much as the metal itself.. I will have to refinish my Milgauss in order for it to have a more satin finish.. it is on the coarse side.. just gotta get to my cousins jewelry shop to borrow his satin finishing wheels .. and the Milgauss bracelet will be as good as the DSSD. thanks for viewing.. AC Lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Thanks for taking the time to post up Lani, and I agree, the steel does look a bit brighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted December 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 thank you JJ .. gonna take a capecod to it tonight and see if it will make a difference.. although with as much chromium in the 316f.. I don't think it'll make as much difference as it does on the 316L.. AC/Lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Thanks for that comparison. This steel has been the missing link in our reps for a long time. It looks like this version is worth the extra money. Damn my wallet will be empty once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Steel color? I didn't see anything... I only saw that EXTREMELY BEAUTIFUL white Explorer II there. Then there was some other big and clumsy looking watch... Seriously... nice comparison. Good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted December 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Steel color? I didn't see anything... I only saw that EXTREMELY BEAUTIFUL white Explorer II there. Then there was some other big and clumsy looking watch... Seriously... nice comparison. Good work! Thanks BT.. believe it or not.. my frankens get more wrist time than my gen. outta the 2 gen expl. .. the white dial is my fav.. AC L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Thanks Lani. It's the fist time I trully see a difference. I'll second BT: that white explorer looks great. Is it a Tritium dial ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted December 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Thanks Lani. It's the fist time I trully see a difference. I'll second BT: that white explorer looks great. Is it a Tritium dial ? tis that Stephane !! Patina coming on sloooowwwly.. the 316F steel looks even better in person.. AC/L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 The biggest difference between the 316F and 316L is the carbon content which is greater in the F. (AISI Standards) As well as the levels of Phosphorus, Sulfur and Molybdenum. From the manufacturers point of view the 316F is cheaper to buy and also has a greater machinibility than the 316L therefore increasing the lifecycle of the machining tools used. This I would suggest is the main driver for its use. Of course a better machinability does imply a better or finer brush finish. I have seen a comparison of the two on a TAG and others have been discussing this on other forums(I am surprised Lani's Ears aren't burning!!) they also havent noted any significant difference, certainly none that would warrant any increased costs. What will be interesting to see is when the feedback starts coming in from the average member in terms of the watch they have been sold and its looks. As I assume Lani's orders are given that little more TLC at the QA process as you might expect given his reviewer status. There are other differences in respect of these grades of S/S which I and others have discussed elsewhere but in the main I believe the biggest benefit in the use of this material is to the manufacturer by reducing OH's and Lifecycle costs and not the end user. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member X Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Great pic comparison, thanks again Lani! Definitely looks better than the 316L so let's hope that this is a win-win situation - manufacturers cut costs, we get a better product, it lasts just as long as the 316L... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavidoc Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Lani, You'll need to do a comparison of the cases if you're using your Exp II. Jury is still out but is leaning towards all rolex bracelets except the newer ones (like DSSD) are 316L and only the cases are 904. That might explain why your DSSD bracelet is so close to your Exp II bracelet. I tend to agree with this assessment as the tones of my Exp II case to bracelet were not a match when I owned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest techlogik Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 There is actually more Phosphorus, Carbon and Sulfur in the 316F. Molybdenum is different, overlapping slightly on the scale, could be less in 316F. Tensile and yield strength are better for the 316F The AISI standards for Ni (Nickel) are actually about the same for 316L and F. Of course, since this is Chinese made, who knows what they are putting in this stuff. Until I see a metallurgy analysis of the watch case/band claiming 316F to prove that fact...I don't believe it. They probably just chemically dipped it to change the appearance knowing the Rep makers. Heck, if all we know the 316L is nonsense also..has anyone been able to verify and prove with lab mettalurgy testing it is for sure what they say? Or seen raw supply order paperwork from the steel provider claiming it is?!?! Yes, it looks brighter...but that doesn't mean much to me except is does look more gen like in appearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted December 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Lani, You'll need to do a comparison of the cases if you're using your Exp II. Jury is still out but is leaning towards all rolex bracelets except the newer ones (like DSSD) are 316L and only the cases are 904. That might explain why your DSSD bracelet is so close to your Exp II bracelet. I tend to agree with this assessment as the tones of my Exp II case to bracelet were not a match when I owned it. Ok .. thanks gavi.. more constructive than the post after yours.... I'll add that to my comparison of the crystal heights.. thanks for not listing the googled compounds .. seen it a dozen times myself.. this thread is mainly to "compare" the aesthetics and not the chemical composition that most people who post them don't know WTF they mean.. there are only a couple of members whom work with metal, and know wht the compositions refer to.. ergo .. I did not attempt to impress with things I have no knowledge with... I do know chromium and nickel.. as my skin reacts to nickel and I've worked with chromium..so I stuck with the issues I am familiar with. PeteM Icon Posted Today, 04:43 AM What will be interesting to see is when the feedback starts coming in from the average member in terms of the watch they have been sold and its looks. As I assume Lani's orders are given that little more TLC at the QA process as you might expect given his reviewer status. that is a bold statement from a noob Pete.. I am just like any other customer/member.. that I do these reviews does not give me "special" status.. you can do them.. that's how I started reviewing watches .. buy them, take pics .. so others can have the opportunity to choose.. you will find for all your time and effort ... there are those who appreciate it by crapping on the thread..and those viewing,.. using the info and not having the courtesy to say "thankyou".. takers in life I post the Dealer to avert me getting 50 pm's which take a good part of my day to get through... as in the past I just post the watch without naming any dealer and get swamped with PM's and inquiries on the thread... and it's not like I don't have other things to get done.. The raffles ...which as a noob I'll fill you in .. in case you think I get "special" privileges from that too. sometime ago Admin would have to dig in his own pocket to meet the monthly bills.. and or ask members for donations.. it was always the same members donating rather large amounts of cash while others turned away and surfed .. while others payed for their weight. I donated a couple of watches for auction to raise money for our monthly usage.. after some time.. I was asked if I could take on the responsibility of "raffles".. and this being my one and only fora that I call home.. I accepted.. Until now Joshua and Andrew are the only dealers that have donated watches.. a lot of them actually, along with my own collection of new unused pieces we have done ok as a community .. with members paying for raffle tickets to support the monthly usage.. we will be in need of more raffle funds for our winter months shortly. I do not get "special status" from this either.. I'm in service to the community.. as others are and some remain anonymous.. old time vets whose passion for RWG is endless. So .. as a Noob .. this was to fill you in on what "we" do as a community.. reviews can take up to a full day or longer .. Andrew spent 40 hours once on a comprehensive review on Breitlings.. we receive no pay, or compensation... so if you think I get better treatment than any other rank and file member.... think again Pete We are a "not for profit fora".. and rely on members as a community to share knowledge and experience.. some share only negative .. that is their course in life too.. imo.. So as you "learn" what we are as a community.. someday I hope to read "your" reviews and "thank you" for the endless hours spent on these beasts..everyone starts somewhere in life, as is true in this community also, be one of the good guy's and give back.. which I believe you will ~ AC/L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Lani, I've been thinking about replying or not. And, as the answer to reply or not was REPLY, I started thinking about how to reply. I'll avoid members of the community to read long replies, so in short: 1.Lani is an asset for this place. No doubt, no debate,...it's so fucking obvious 2.Those who think Lani get paid or receives a "discounted" watch for his reviews...move, you do not belong to our community. And, in fact, I would vote for a free watch to Lani sent by dealers, allthough most of you would not. 3.Those who think this place is making profits, pls go elsewhere, you do not belong to our community. It's time for everyone to contribute sending some $. Indeed, untill the recent past $ were coming from the same members over and over ... It's your turn guys and gals if you want to keep a source of valuable information for your hobby. As a conclusion I will say that EVERYBODY is welcome to spend hours to prepare a review and photos to share with our community. But, unfortunately, takers take and go away as soon the have their best Sub and never contribute Lani and many other precious members: thanks for your time and dedication to the community All the best, Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 thanks superb report as always ! i think what Pete really wanted to ask was (and me too ) : what do i have to do that i can afford all this watches ???? cheers, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 I agree 100% with stephane. Lani is the most generous and giving forum member you will ever encounter. And that says lot because there are lots of very knowledgeable and generous forum members out there. Doing a review is time consuming and requires a lot of thought and planning to get it right. First you have to take the photos, Thank God for Digital!! After years of photography, spending countless hours in the darkroom breathing toxic chemicals processing film, only to finish throw the filmstrip on a light table look at all the slides and pitch the whole roll in the trash! It Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Lani- Very interesting and thoughtful post. Unfortunately it is also going to result in a further reduction in my liquid net worth which at Christmas time is always a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Lani- Very interesting and thoughtful post. Unfortunately it is also going to result in a further reduction in my liquid net worth which at Christmas time is always a bad thing. You always have a way to make me chuckle at life W... thank you Arthur.. just got up and didn't have my coffee on my last post AC L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fer Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Lani... Thank you very much for you efforts. And keep those illuminating reviews and notes coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citidon Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I have to second Lani's review. I have a gen SD and the Super SD Rep and the finish is different. But my GMC IIC with 316F steel is much closer to the gen steel. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatchaman Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Lani, I think you've just increased the forum demand for Cape Cod Cloth. Group buy, anyone?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Interesting Post for shure Lani thank you. But I don't believe the manufactures use what the dealers stated. They claim 316L and now 316F. So can we trust them about the material? Who knows really?!? I've handeled various Rolex Reps to mod and most where different in Steel. Some really hard in metal,some really soft and this on the same Modell. I think we need a specialist to analyse the material to clear the facts. But this is onl my opinion. But again head up for your really great Posts Lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Interesting Post for shure Lani thank you. But I don't believe the manufactures use what the dealers stated. They claim 316L and now 316F. So can we trust them about the material? Who knows really?!? I've handeled various Rolex Reps to mod and most where different in Steel. Some really hard in metal,some really soft and this on the same Modell. I think we need a specialist to analyse the material to clear the facts. But this is onl my opinion. But again head up for your really great Posts Lani thanks T I don't dobt the synopsis that the steel used is not what it is claimed to be.. the mian thing for me is the aesthetics.. colour.. and sheen.. with the rep biz.. who knows whats really in the steel?? I still am of the thought that this new steel may have more chromium than whatever it really should have... but "for me" grail fo me has been better steel for the aesthetics.. you are much more technical.. in a very good way, is my point.. but thank you for your generous words.. I truly appreciate it.. AC/Lani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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