JoJo35 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 ...anybody find any problems with this "perfect" red sub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 the clasp isnt original Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I agree, the clasp isn't correct- should be a smooth fliplock, but more importantly, the date font is wrong on the 3- should be the flat top 3. But then again, I'm never sure about those things, Rolex could give a shite about datewheels and could have replaced it, or maybe it's original. But chances are good it isn't original, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted December 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I agree, the clasp isn't correct- should be a smooth fliplock, but more importantly, the date font is wrong on the 3- should be the flat top 3. But then again, I'm never sure about those things, Rolex could give a [censored] about date wheels and could have replaced it, or maybe it's original. But chances are good it isn't original, IMO. NOT original Ok, that was quick, two things found not to be original within minutes by us. However, it's the second thing that really bothers me. Rolex would never install an incorrect date wheel upon service (correct service replacements were "flat top three" brushed silver date wheels, and later, "flat top three" white date wheels). So... A reasonable person may ask, if this part has been altered, what else? Certainly far from a "perfect" red, and IMO an embarrassment to the seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 no flat 3 .. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosnik Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I think that the reahalt is a bit more conical. I got suspect about CG too , I think reshaped. I think the insert is suspect too. The high 'red' intensity color may be is a picture problem too........ IMO: Our 1665 are sure better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted December 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Case and dial appear to be gen (dial definitely is). Crown is incorrect for MkIII dial, as it should be a 702/7020 combo. It looks like a later (and again incorrect for a vintage fanatic) triplock crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosnik Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Instead, that's really nice! http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/message/1259889109/fs-1970+Red+Sub-1680+w-9315+band...9%2C500%24+shipped+world-wide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 john buckley is a reputable vintage rolex seller. agreed that the datewheel and clasp are definitely not original, although that doesn't mean they are not 100% genuine rolex. describing the watch as perfect is certainly a bit of a stretch. deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I dunno about the clasp (and dw) but other than that, the watch looks very genuine to me. Absolutely nothing wrong with the dial, case and cg's, imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted December 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Instead, that's really nice! http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/message/1259889109/fs-1970+Red+Sub-1680+w-9315+band...9%2C500%24+shipped+world-wide I agree, although IMO overpriced. Correct crown, correct bracelet, yet rounded case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Dial I'm sure is genuine, but it sure looks too "new" for a vintage sub. I wonder if the reason the case is "rounded' was from possibly some vigorous polishing to get rid of nicks and gouges.The dial could be a service dial that was installed at a later date, or it could be a parts watch that was put together with all genuine Rolex parts, but not necressarily the right ones. That's what could have happened with the crown, tube, bracelet clasp, etc. We have members who build "Frankens" all the time, why not a Rolex guy or a Rolex authorized watchsmith? Arthur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Am I stupid or ... Who the hell can buy a watch at such price with an incorrect datewheel? It might be an Eta inside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 The insert is not original either. Without seeing the case tube, I can't tell if it's a 702 or 703 crown, but the crown does look more like a 703, IMO. I'm not sure about overpriced these days, Mark Greenberg also has a red sub up for sale w/ B&P for $14,500! And it's a MkIV dial, not a III. I would think there is some frankenizing going on these days- buy a good MkIII red sub (the value is in the dial)at $7800 and fix the bad parts- DW, crown and tube, insert, put it on a 9315 and you've easily added $2K of value.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted December 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Great discussion guys. Talk like this is good for the community, as everyone learns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I would think there is some frankenizing going on these days- buy a good MkIII red sub (the value is in the dial)at $7800 and fix the bad parts- DW, crown and tube, insert, put it on a 9315 and you've easily added $2K of value.... i'd definitely think you're right. another thing that is happening is that a vintage rolex will show up on ebay (where the watches typically fetch lower prices), and experienced collectors who know what they are buying (and are comfortable with buying off ebay -- many people aren't) will purchase the watch and then turn around and sell it on VRF and/or TZ -- sometimes making a quick $1-2k in the process. although what is strange to me about that particular 1680 is that john buckley knows all the wrong parts on that watch -- you'd think he would have fixed the watch up himself and sold it at a premium price, as that dial looks to be in really good shape. deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 My theory, delta, is that John just wanted to flip this quickly and make his money. I agree that he could have fixed it up, but then he might have had to be truthful about it. This way he can say, "I just sold this watch, I didn't do anything to it." A lot of places try to say a watch is 100% original Rolex, but on a 40 year old watch, that's very very rare. And even Rolex will put new parts in- sure they're genuine Rolex parts, but they're not the original parts, those have been replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 interesting thoughts alligoat; you're probably right re: JB's thinking on that watch. also agreed on the whole "100% original" claims. a perfect example is the sales listing rosnik posted in this thread, the seller of that watch states "all original", but the crystal is clearly a beveled service crystal and not an original top hat tropic 127. imho the only way to know for sure whether or not a watch is 100% original is to buy it from the original owner (and i think we all know it is almost impossible to find original owners of these sought after vintage rolex watches these days), and even then it has to be the rare case where that owner knows for sure that nothing was ever replaced. it happens once in a blue moon, but as you say, it's very, very rare. deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 It all looks gen to me as well. Perhaps, not all of the parts the watch originally left the factory with, but I would hazard a guess that the watch has been as it appears in the pics for many years. And the seller is about as reliable as you can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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