By-Tor Posted March 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 @Gran: Nothing wrong with PMWF of course. Lots of great people over there. I love all kinds of watches and have owned plenty of cheap ones. I mean the guys who come here and tell how crappy the reps are compared to their $50 Orient Quartz. I never understood these claims. How do you measure the quality? If you get a rep without QC issues, the watch runs and keeps great time, how is it inferior to a cheap Japanese battery watches... most don't even have screw down crowns, have terrible bracelets, are light and feel cheap as hell... I simply don't get it. Watches like Sandoz and Marcello are probably equal to better reps but definitely NOT any better when it comes to finish and details. Cheap Orients and Citizens... not even close, imho. And don't get me started with Invicta... My Ebel BTR rep was MUCH better finished than any of my gen cheapies. The bracelet was incredible... brushed finish, SEL fitting, etc. Equalled my gen Breitling Pro 2. Seiko Orange Monster is an exception, it's definitely one of the best budget ones out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 These days, the only time I buy gen... Is to break it down into parts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 There's one good thing I can say about a Rolex Service Center and its pricing: my brother had a girlfriend, "Scary Mary" and she decided for his birthday to restore his 5513 as a surprise. This was about 12 years ago. She sent it off, with a letter to make it "good as new" and when it came back, the total was over $1,000. New bracelet, refinish the case, new crystal and insert, service the movement, leave the hands and dial alone. One Grover for that? Reps are lookin' pretty good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Scary Mary... What would prompt you to nickname your brother's girlfriend something to that effect? Or should I ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Agreed reps are just as good or better than most poor mans watches ...but nothing wrong with a Hamilton or the Poor mans watch forum(s) btw they list the Seiko SKX779K "Black Monster" or SKX781 "Orange Monster" as their favorite www.pmwf.com is a very very nice place I feel that By-Tor's comments In reguards to TPMW sites were not at the sites themselves but at some of the people that belong to those sites I would be In 100% agreement. By-Tor correct me If I am wrong. Mike (ps) I also like Hamiltons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 yes nanuq, forget about the rolex bill, we want to hear about scary mary more.... well thought out post by BT and everyone. I am in the same boat. The past few months I have bought a few gens, and a Josh Swiss SOSF (which by the way, have some movement problems, I have to get in touch with him about this). but I got a chance to look at the bill that Breitling would charge for a service on their chrono. and let's just say that are charging 3 times more than what Zig charge. and Rob if you are reading this, please disregard that last sentence! I mean it is just crazy! personally I'd trust Zig more, but the advantage of a Breitling service would be that they would have parts handy if it needs to be replaced. my gen had received a basic service from Breitling just last month. I do not think it's an overhaul. It was sent in because it was running fast, and now that I got it back. it is running at +10 per day. Pretty lame for a COSC watch that Breitling claim, I'd say. I am debating whether or not to go back to AD and tell them to send it up again. When we would have A7750 or ETA 7750 that runs well within COSC range, you have got to admire that. and I guess we are all spoiled by good reps and good gens. Gens because we want the finer finish, and reps because we have been spoiled by super reps. but think about when any of us get that first rep sub back in the 90s, and what we are getting these days. How can you not appreciate reps and how far we've come? this is still exciting time to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcoast68 Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 A couple of years ago, I went to a Rolex AD to inquire about a new bracelet for my GMT Master. When I originally got that watch, it had a folded link oyster bracelet that had a divers extension (wrong for that model) and I wanted to get a jubilee bracelet for it. I asked the price for a new stainless jubilee expecting to get a price of a couple hundred, nope, I was told $850 !! For a stainless steel bracelet!! And, on top of that, I was told that I would have to give them the old oyster bracelet . I said "thank you, but no", and walked out. Instead, I got an aftermarket jubilee, all stainless, for $50 . Sure it is totally unmarked, no Rolex logos at all, but it fits the watch perfect and this way, if I want to switch it out for another oyster later on, I would not be wasting on a $850 part . What about that folded link oyster? Well, it is now on my Tudor submariner franken and it looks every bit the part, give away my oyster bracelet, like hell !! That's right folks, that gen watch in my sig uses an aftermarket bracelet and I love that watch every bit the same. Good topic! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 yes nanuq, forget about the rolex bill, we want to hear about scary mary more.... well thought out post by BT and everyone. I am in the same boat. The past few months I have bought a few gens, and a Josh Swiss SOSF (which by the way, have some movement problems, I have to get in touch with him about this). but I got a chance to look at the bill that Breitling would charge for a service on their chrono. and let's just say that are charging 3 times more than what Zig charge. and Rob if you are reading this, please disregard that last sentence! I mean it is just crazy! personally I'd trust Zig more, but the advantage of a Breitling service would be that they would have parts handy if it needs to be replaced. my gen had received a basic service from Breitling just last month. I do not think it's an overhaul. It was sent in because it was running fast, and now that I got it back. it is running at +10 per day. Pretty lame for a COSC watch that Breitling claim, I'd say. I am debating whether or not to go back to AD and tell them to send it up again. When we would have A7750 or ETA 7750 that runs well within COSC range, you have got to admire that. and I guess we are all spoiled by good reps and good gens. Gens because we want the finer finish, and reps because we have been spoiled by super reps. but think about when any of us get that first rep sub back in the 90s, and what we are getting these days. How can you not appreciate reps and how far we've come? this is still exciting time to me! Heh, and my super franken SA with gen B13..... is the only chrono I have that DOESN'T reset perfectly to 12!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 I feel that By-Tor's comments In reguards to TPMW sites were not at the sites themselves but at some of the people that belong to those sites I would be In 100% agreement. By-Tor correct me If I am wrong. Mike (ps) I also like Hamiltons I am in agreement as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 fantastic post by-tor this thread sums up my collecting mentality to a T deltatahoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 yes nanuq, forget about the rolex bill, we want to hear about scary mary more.... well thought out post by BT and everyone. I am in the same boat. The past few months I have bought a few gens, and a Josh Swiss SOSF (which by the way, have some movement problems, I have to get in touch with him about this). but I got a chance to look at the bill that Breitling would charge for a service on their chrono. and let's just say that are charging 3 times more than what Zig charge. and Rob if you are reading this, please disregard that last sentence! I mean it is just crazy! personally I'd trust Zig more, but the advantage of a Breitling service would be that they would have parts handy if it needs to be replaced. my gen had received a basic service from Breitling just last month. I do not think it's an overhaul. It was sent in because it was running fast, and now that I got it back. it is running at +10 per day. Pretty lame for a COSC watch that Breitling claim, I'd say. I am debating whether or not to go back to AD and tell them to send it up again. When we would have A7750 or ETA 7750 that runs well within COSC range, you have got to admire that. and I guess we are all spoiled by good reps and good gens. Gens because we want the finer finish, and reps because we have been spoiled by super reps. but think about when any of us get that first rep sub back in the 90s, and what we are getting these days. How can you not appreciate reps and how far we've come? this is still exciting time to me! +10?? Totally unacceptable on a COSC rated watch, especially if it was being looked at specifically because it was running fast anyway... One would hope that the person looking at it would have thought "Hmmmm, this watch is running fast, so I'll try and tune it as close as possible within COSC..." If I can get an a21j to +0.2 a day, with nothing more complex than a set of dishwashing gloves, a toothpick and a radio-controlled clock, what's their excuse? Best of luck getting them to take care of it (and hopefully under the original service payment ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 I am in agreement as well What Is It they say about great mind's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Heh, and my super franken SA with gen B13..... is the only chrono I have that DOESN'T reset perfectly to 12!! I know chief, it's crazy isn't it? I certainly would think that you buy gen to have a more fine tuned movement, careful to details. But I wonder if they ever did any time testing! or additional QC for that matter +10?? Totally unacceptable on a COSC rated watch, especially if it was being looked at specifically because it was running fast anyway... One would hope that the person looking at it would have thought "Hmmmm, this watch is running fast, so I'll try and tune it as close as possible within COSC..." If I can get an a21j to +0.2 a day, with nothing more complex than a set of dishwashing gloves, a toothpick and a radio-controlled clock, what's their excuse? Best of luck getting them to take care of it (and hopefully under the original service payment ) Teejay, I am surprised as well. I don't know whether or not I should wear it for a month, and see if the movement would settle down, then see if it is still +10 per day. The original bill was for a maintenance before the 2 year warranty is up, so Breitling did it for free. on the breitling bill, it said "basic service" and then a bunch of gaskets and tubes were replaced I believe. but if the watch was sent in, stating "running fast" I would think it should now run slower, or at least closer to COSC specs. now do I need to wear this for a month? is there such a thing to get movements "settle down"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Teejay, I am surprised as well. I don't know whether or not I should wear it for a month, and see if the movement would settle down, then see if it is still +10 per day. The original bill was for a maintenance before the 2 year warranty is up, so Breitling did it for free. on the breitling bill, it said "basic service" and then a bunch of gaskets and tubes were replaced I believe. but if the watch was sent in, stating "running fast" I would think it should now run slower, or at least closer to COSC specs. now do I need to wear this for a month? is there such a thing to get movements "settle down"? How fast was it running before it was sent in? If it was running faster, say +15 or +20, then at least the movement has been regulated and adjusted, (just not monitored and adjusted enough ) If it was running at +10 when it went in, I'd at the very least go back and make them aware that you're aware that the movement is still running fast, despite the fact you paid a service bill to have the timing adjusted. I've heard about movements 'settling down', but never really observed it much myself. For the most part, adjusting the timing is one of the first things I will do with a watch, after all, it's no good to me if it's not telling accurate time (within reason for a mechanical movement, of course) Maybe a movement expert could chime in about if you should give it a month to settle in before taking it back, but one thing's for sure, as above, +10 is not really acceptable for a professionally serviced COSC spec movement which was adjusted for running too fast. I'm not saying they should have sent it back at +0.2, but at least +5 would have been more reasonable and within the COSC boundary... Best of luck getting it resolved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceberg888 Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Great thread, By-Tor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 How fast was it running before it was sent in? If it was running faster, say +15 or +20, then at least the movement has been regulated and adjusted, (just not monitored and adjusted enough ) If it was running at +10 when it went in, I'd at the very least go back and make them aware that you're aware that the movement is still running fast, despite the fact you paid a service bill to have the timing adjusted. I've heard about movements 'settling down', but never really observed it much myself. For the most part, adjusting the timing is one of the first things I will do with a watch, after all, it's no good to me if it's not telling accurate time (within reason for a mechanical movement, of course) Maybe a movement expert could chime in about if you should give it a month to settle in before taking it back, but one thing's for sure, as above, +10 is not really acceptable for a professionally serviced COSC spec movement which was adjusted for running too fast. I'm not saying they should have sent it back at +0.2, but at least +5 would have been more reasonable and within the COSC boundary... Best of luck getting it resolved well I got it from another member on the gen forum. He told me that the warranty is up, and he would send in to Breitling for a maintenance and then sell it to me. I asked him how fast the watch was running, and this is before he sold the watch and had Breitling do the "basic service". he told me it was at around +5. I was thinking for a COSC watch, we are just about at that borderline of falling out of the spec. but I figured since he is sending it in, it ought to get better. keep in mind, the previous owner told me that he did not get to wear the watch often. so his memory could be off. I just wonder if I take it to my local AD, if they are going to [censored] about it, cause I didn't buy it from them, and I hate dealing with snobby dbags in general....lol. I set the watch Sunday evening, and the watch has not stopped since then, I will do a final tally by this Sunday and see how far off I am. so far, both of my swiss 7750s, which I have tested for 1 full week of wear, is at 0, and +1 respectively. This Breitling will be no where near it, but I wanted to make sure it will not be over a minute fast either, cause that will be just sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 well I got it from another member on the gen forum. He told me that the warranty is up, and he would send in to Breitling for a maintenance and then sell it to me. I asked him how fast the watch was running, and this is before he sold the watch and had Breitling do the "basic service". he told me it was at around +5. I was thinking for a COSC watch, we are just about at that borderline of falling out of the spec. but I figured since he is sending it in, it ought to get better. keep in mind, the previous owner told me that he did not get to wear the watch often. so his memory could be off. I just wonder if I take it to my local AD, if they are going to [censored] about it, cause I didn't buy it from them, and I hate dealing with snobby dbags in general....lol. I set the watch Sunday evening, and the watch has not stopped since then, I will do a final tally by this Sunday and see how far off I am. so far, both of my swiss 7750s, which I have tested for 1 full week of wear, is at 0, and +1 respectively. This Breitling will be no where near it, but I wanted to make sure it will not be over a minute fast either, cause that will be just sad. Ahh, if you didn't have the watch prior to servicing, that does put you in a somewhat weaker position, in that you can't go in the AD guns blazing and say for certain "The watch was running at X before service, and is now running at Y, but it should be running at Z..." Did your transaction include papers for the watch, and if so, is there anything like a car's log book which might say what was done on what date of servicing? (I only ask as I've never owned a gen, so don't know if this kind of thing might be included in the papers) It might just be worth a phone call to your nearest Breitling AD to explain your situation and get their input and suggestions as to how to proceed with maybe having the watch 're-serviced'. It might just be worth cracking the caseback and regulating it yourself (certainly cheaper if you know how to adjust it yourself) Best of luck with it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 I have regulated all of my reps. but with my gens, I tend to be a little worried about cracking them up. the watch came with all paperwork, including the recent "basic service". I have a feeling that basic is not an overhaul at all. probably just a lookover and make sure nothing is out of the ordinary. but I even have that Breitling receipt where the previous owner said it was running fast. when I am not wearing it at night, I have the watch on the crown up position, hoping that it will slow it down somewhat. of course I'll wait til sunday and see how bad the deviation may be. I hope it is not too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 without reading the hole thread i kindly disagree with the TS example : please try to get new AR for your rep Skyland - impossible - you simply can not remove the crystal without destroying the hole watch and if you dont see and feel the difference betw a gen and rep Rolex holding them next 2 each other ? i dont know - maybe you should not wear sunglasses all the time not bashing reps here - they are okay - like always : you get what you pay for cheers, Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Frank, I think you missed my point. Of course we see the difference between them. Because we're ultimate watch geeks. And of course I'm not talking about standard reps... only the best ones. I just put my WM9 Sub next to my gen 16710. You know, like now... 10 seconds ago. Gen bracelet is smoother and has softer edges but it also feels considerably lighter. Naked eye can't see any difference between dial print quality, the bezel construction quality or the insert itself. Both have equally strong super luminova. Okay... my SELs (even though they're modded from v1) don't fit 100% perfectly on the rep... I'll give that to the gen. But if an ordinary guy out from the street had to tell which one is rep, he'd probably pick the gen. Because it feels lighter. Where are the huge visual differences man... you tell me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Frank, I think you missed my point. Of course we see the difference between them. Because we're ultimate watch geeks. And of course I'm not talking about standard reps... only the best ones. I just put my WM9 Sub next to my gen 16710. You know, like now... 10 seconds ago. Gen bracelet is smoother and has softer edges but it also feels considerably lighter. Naked eye can't see any difference between dial print quality, the bezel construction quality or the insert itself. Both have equally strong super luminova. Okay... my SELs (even though they're modded from v1) don't fit 100% perfectly on the rep... I'll give that to the gen. But if an ordinary guy out from the street had to tell which one is rep, he'd probably pick the gen. Because it feels lighter. Where are the huge visual differences man... you tell me... the shine - the GENEVA shine i agree - visually ist hard - very hard to call out todays reps - but fat SELs you could spot if you try im more not happy with the build quality of the reps - on my skyland i had to replace the movement - an my SA - from the same factory - the whole case and finally the steelfish got trouble with the "ETA" inside - but all reps from this factory are extremly accurate . beside the tecnical problems there are also some QC issues like : not centered bezel, lumedots - badly finnished bracelet ect ... if you can life with this and dont plan to keep your watches for a life time - welcome to RWG cheers, Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceberg1459 Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 im picking my gen lv sub today, ill make a honest comparison or an amateur review between the wm9 v2 sub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 I have regulated all of my reps. but with my gens, I tend to be a little worried about cracking them up. the watch came with all paperwork, including the recent "basic service". I have a feeling that basic is not an overhaul at all. probably just a lookover and make sure nothing is out of the ordinary. but I even have that Breitling receipt where the previous owner said it was running fast. when I am not wearing it at night, I have the watch on the crown up position, hoping that it will slow it down somewhat. of course I'll wait til sunday and see how bad the deviation may be. I hope it is not too bad. Rep or gen, they're all just watches, think of it like the guy who works on his own car rather than taking it to the garage for every little rattle Putting the watch crown up will help, but it is only making the watch lose time, which it will then re-gain, as opposed to actually regulating the movement to make the timing constant. If you have the paperwork, it might be worth giving the AD a call and asking if they would be prepared to re-examine the watch's timing as under the original service, given it isn't in COSC standard, but if they say it will cost more, I'd be tempted to do the regulation myself and save the $$s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 I just like watches, gen or rep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 without reading the hole thread i kindly disagree with the TS example : please try to get new AR for your rep Skyland - impossible - you simply can not remove the crystal without destroying the hole watch and if you dont see and feel the difference betw a gen and rep Rolex holding them next 2 each other ? i dont know - maybe you should not wear sunglasses all the time not bashing reps here - they are okay - like always : you get what you pay for cheers, Frank I totally dissagree Frank, although I do respect your opinion. I say you get much more than you pay for. Im talking about the "cream of the crop reps" not your average medicore reps. Although some of those are very good too. Im wearing my Breitling SA today thats so gen like It's scary, my watch repair guy agrees. The differences are all loupe stuff. This Is just one of many examples. I think these high end reps are the "best bang for the buck" that one could hope to find. To make matters even better most of my reps are keeping excellent time. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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