HEWLIO Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 I just got back from boston where i got my new gen. My dad and I had a good time finagling prices. We saw some really nice vintages. There wasn't a huge selection but I decided on a 16800 transitional. Its a great looking watch and I think i am really going to like it. Its a 1983, it has the box and papers. The dial markers are nicely aged which is right up my alley. The only problem is the dial has some sort of grease or something on it as you can see in the pics. I guess I don't mind it, it gives the watch some character. But other than that I just wanted to thank all the guys on here that have helped me out around this forum. Im not sure if I will stay in the rep world or not, but if not I have had one hell of a good time with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Great find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Now you'll need to find a dial, an insert with the correct pearl, a set of min and hour hands, and a vintage crown. What mil serial range is it? ...I hope you didn't pay too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEWLIO Posted April 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Now you'll need to find a dial, an insert with the correct pearl, a set of min and hour hands, and a vintage crown. What mil serial range is it? ...I hope you didn't pay too much the serial is 80xxxxx. Whats wrong with any of those things, they are original. I looked at the prices on ebay, and i dont think I over paid. How much do you guys think its worth? Ill get some better pictures in a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 My observations: The parts (except for the dial, and you did say you could live with that) are not original. Below is a pic of my transitional 16800: ...notice the matching hands, the inset and pearl, and the crown. For all new collectors ready to venture out into the gen world... remember, research research research! PS: come to think of it, I have serious doubts about the bezel as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEWLIO Posted April 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Umm... I really hate to sound harsh, but I did suggest you to research first The parts (except for the dial, and you did say you could live with that) are not original. Below is a pic of my transitional 16800: ...notice the matching hands, the inset and pearl, and the crown. For all new collectors ready to venture out into the gen world... remember, research research research! PS: come to think of it, I have serious doubts about the bezel as well... So are those parts real at least so i don't have to return it? and you didn't tell me how much it was worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Well, you did say that you finagled a fair price, so cost is relative I suppose. The insert and pearl is obviously a replacement lumi, as is the crown. The bezel has a different cut than my original, so evidently that was changed as well. The hands, wow, not even close (although the second hand looks original). Don't forget that even these transitional are really old, and parts do get replaced over the years. However, a buyer should be fully aware of obvious changes before attempting a purchase. After all, these things do cost a lot of money, and who do you want to have the edge, them, or you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEWLIO Posted April 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 (edited) Well, you did say that you finagled a fair price, so cost is relative I suppose. The insert and pearl is obviously a replacement lumi, as is the crown. The bezel has a different cut than my original, so evidently that was changed as well. The hands, wow, not even close (although the second hand looks original). Don't forget that even these transitional are really old, and parts do get replaced over the years. However, a buyer should be fully aware of obvious changes before attempting a purchase. After all, these things do cost a lot of money, and who do you want to have the edge, them, or you? ya i understand that parts do get replaced. I can tell that the movement has been taken out at least once. I am guessing that the dial is original and whoever had it before me decided to change out the hands, and did a poor job of finding ones that match. They had another transitional there and it was too white. but an interesting thing is the bezel was more like yours and to me it looked really worn out. Maybe thats how it always was, i have no idea. So can i call this a gen or what? and what do you think this watch is honestly worth? I want to know if i over paid. Edited April 3, 2010 by HEWLIO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 IMO, you just have to get a vintage tritium insert, a better set of tritium hands and an old 703 crown. I bought a good old tritium insert from sheartime- Andrew Shear on the bay- $60-70. Check VRF for old hands- guys have the old tritium ones from time to time. Hands for the 16800 and 16610 are the same sizes and as long as they're tritium, you're fine. The old 703 crown has a taller crown emblem on the side- newer ones are more squat. Rolex would change out those parts in the course of servicing anyway, maybe your bezel is new also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14060 or 16610? Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Is it just me, or is the date font off as well? Looks more like the modern "2" than the one that goes with open 6s and 9s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioarmani Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Love the box too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEWLIO Posted April 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 well after looking at it ALOT closer I really think that the hands are original to this watch. The hour hand is alot darker than the minute and second hand. But it still could be the original one. If the dial is not original I will eat my hat. As for the bezel, I can believe that the insert was replaced, but im not sure about the bezel itself. If you guys dont like it then thats your opinion. I happen to like it alot and I think its going to stay with me for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Enjoy your new watch mate, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 HEWLIO, I hope that you enjoy the watch. It's yours, and if your happy with it, that's all that counts. What most of us are trying to say here is those parts have been changed at some point in time. i would respect JoJo's opinion, he has forgotten more about Rolex Vintage sport models than most of us will ever know. The reason the hands aren't original, is the aging is different. If they were all from the same time, either original or all changed at one time, they would be all the same patina, yours are not. As far as your insert, the pearl is definitely later, it's not a tritium pearl.I would suspect that the previous owner(s)had their service done by a local watchmaker. This doesn't look like what would come from RSC. Also RSC supplies service papers that outline everything that was done to the watch. They also mark the inside of the case back with the date of service.Did the seller take the case back off to show you the movement and the inside of the case back? the biggest problem that I can see is, should you decide to sell this watch sometimes in the future, a knowledgeable buyer will see all these things that aren't correct, and won't be willing to pay the same for this watch as he would for one that was all original, or had service parts replaced with the correct ones. I just saw a really nice vintage Rolex 1675 GMT for sale. The previous owner sent the watch to a RSC and told them "I want it to look like a new watch". Unfortunately, this was a gilt dial model that is quite valuable in good condition. RSC removed the gilt dial and hands and replaced them with a newer service dial and hands. They were correct for the 1675, but they came on a later model. What the result is the fellow spent almost 2000 Dollars on this service. When he replaced the dial and hands it decreased the value of the watch by probably 2-3 thousand dollars. He now has a watch worth 4000 dollars and with a nice set of gilt hands and dial, it would have been worth 7000 or more.What I'm trying to say with all this is the more you know, the better prepared you are to make decisions. Had this fellow known anything about Rolex Vintage models, or had he gone on one of the Rolex forums and posted a photo or two of his watch before he sent it in to the RSC, he would have realized that changing out the dial and hands was a big mistake. the big problem here is most watch sellers and watchmakers including Rolex Service Centers will not give you advice about what you should do or shouldn't do to your watch. If you tell them, make it look like new, by Gosh, that's what they do. If it's and independent watchmaker, he will probably keep the gilt dial and hands, or your old tritium hands, dial, insert, etc. and sell them, as there is a very active market for vintage Rolex parts. If you think we are feeding you a line of BS, I would take some good photos of your watch and post them on the Vintage Rolex Forum, I would ask those guys what they think about your watch, what the value is and what you need to do to get it to really proper condition.Of course all of this is your decision, and I certainly hope that we haven't offended you with our comments. We were all trying to paint a realistic picture of the situation. I hope too that we have answered your questions, even though some of the answers weren't what you necessarily wanted to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shundi Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Where'd you get it in Beantown? You should have PM'd me - I would have brought you a celebratory drink!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valerian Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 I love the watch. Hope you enjoy it very much! Where'd you get it in Beantown? You should have PM'd me - I would have brought you a celebratory drink!!! Shundi, WTF?!! How dare you post without your avatar on?! Val. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEWLIO Posted April 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 HEWLIO, I hope that you enjoy the watch. It's yours, and if your happy with it, that's all that counts. What most of us are trying to say here is those parts have been changed at some point in time. i would respect JoJo's opinion, he has forgotten more about Rolex Vintage sport models than most of us will ever know. The reason the hands aren't original, is the aging is different. If they were all from the same time, either original or all changed at one time, they would be all the same patina, yours are not. As far as your insert, the pearl is definitely later, it's not a tritium pearl.I would suspect that the previous owner(s)had their service done by a local watchmaker. This doesn't look like what would come from RSC. Also RSC supplies service papers that outline everything that was done to the watch. They also mark the inside of the case back with the date of service.Did the seller take the case back off to show you the movement and the inside of the case back? the biggest problem that I can see is, should you decide to sell this watch sometimes in the future, a knowledgeable buyer will see all these things that aren't correct, and won't be willing to pay the same for this watch as he would for one that was all original, or had service parts replaced with the correct ones. I just saw a really nice vintage Rolex 1675 GMT for sale. The previous owner sent the watch to a RSC and told them "I want it to look like a new watch". Unfortunately, this was a gilt dial model that is quite valuable in good condition. RSC removed the gilt dial and hands and replaced them with a newer service dial and hands. They were correct for the 1675, but they came on a later model. What the result is the fellow spent almost 2000 Dollars on this service. When he replaced the dial and hands it decreased the value of the watch by probably 2-3 thousand dollars. He now has a watch worth 4000 dollars and with a nice set of gilt hands and dial, it would have been worth 7000 or more.What I'm trying to say with all this is the more you know, the better prepared you are to make decisions. Had this fellow known anything about Rolex Vintage models, or had he gone on one of the Rolex forums and posted a photo or two of his watch before he sent it in to the RSC, he would have realized that changing out the dial and hands was a big mistake. the big problem here is most watch sellers and watchmakers including Rolex Service Centers will not give you advice about what you should do or shouldn't do to your watch. If you tell them, make it look like new, by Gosh, that's what they do. If it's and independent watchmaker, he will probably keep the gilt dial and hands, or your old tritium hands, dial, insert, etc. and sell them, as there is a very active market for vintage Rolex parts. If you think we are feeding you a line of BS, I would take some good photos of your watch and post them on the Vintage Rolex Forum, I would ask those guys what they think about your watch, what the value is and what you need to do to get it to really proper condition.Of course all of this is your decision, and I certainly hope that we haven't offended you with our comments. We were all trying to paint a realistic picture of the situation. I hope too that we have answered your questions, even though some of the answers weren't what you necessarily wanted to hear. No, I have not seen if there is any writing on the inside of the case back. I know all about how rolex service centers take the original dials. The guy in the store where I bought this told me all about it. With knowing this I am never going to send it to any rolex service centers. I will have it fixed locally if it needs to be. I don't think you guys are giving me a line of BS. I really appreciate the knowledge im gaining from this thread alone, but in that same respect I am a little ticked off that I just spent 4k on a rolex and I find out that some of the parts are not original. But I guess I realized that going in when buying a vintage. Again I do appreciate all the info, because if there is a next time I will be much more informed. Where'd you get it in Beantown? You should have PM'd me - I would have brought you a celebratory drink!!! I got it at one of the jewelry stores on washington street right in boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Just to play devil's advocate, and I'm only a noob when it comes to vintage Rolex - so don't believe what I say , but I've seen many tritium dialled watches where the hands have darkened more than the dial markers, most likely due to humid air getting inside the case. Together with temperature variations this would result in condensation. It's also not uncommon for some parts to darken more than others. Each of the hour markers are also different shades. I can think of two reasons why the hands could each be original, uniformly colored, and yet different shades. It might be that they are each from a different batch, one batch being more susceptible to darkening. Also, any moisture on one hand could spread over the whole hand, because the lume is connected at the back, thus causing uniform darkening. Maybe the watch was left stopped for a long period at 10:10, and moisture attacked the 10 o'clock position more than the 2 o'clock. Well, even if it's not all the original parts, it looks great. Any changes are as much a part of its history and character as any of the little scratches or dings. Enjoy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmj Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Well, even if it's not all the original parts, it looks great. Any changes are as much a part of its history and character as any of the little scratches or dings. Enjoy it! +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 No, I have not seen if there is any writing on the inside of the case back. I know all about how rolex service centers take the original dials. The guy in the store where I bought this told me all about it. With knowing this I am never going to send it to any rolex service centers. I will have it fixed locally if it needs to be. I don't think you guys are giving me a line of BS. I really appreciate the knowledge im gaining from this thread alone, but in that same respect I am a little ticked off that I just spent 4k on a rolex and I find out that some of the parts are not original. But I guess I realized that going in when buying a vintage. Again I do appreciate all the info, because if there is a next time I will be much more informed. I got it at one of the jewelry stores on washington street right in boston. The parts might not have been the original parts from when the watch came 'off the line', but if it's always been serviced by Rolex, at least they are genuine Rolex parts rather than aftermarket replacements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 No, I have not seen if there is any writing on the inside of the case back. I know all about how rolex service centers take the original dials. The guy in the store where I bought this told me all about it. With knowing this I am never going to send it to any rolex service centers. I will have it fixed locally if it needs to be. I don't think you guys are giving me a line of BS. I really appreciate the knowledge im gaining from this thread alone, but in that same respect I am a little ticked off that I just spent 4k on a rolex and I find out that some of the parts are not original. But I guess I realized that going in when buying a vintage. Again I do appreciate all the info, because if there is a next time I will be much more informed. Hewlio, I think it's time for you to enjoy your new watch. Maybe you keep you eyes open for a vintage tritium insert. Don't worry about the crown, it works. And leave the hands for now, I've seen lots of vintage Rolex watches where the hands were a different color. I bought a matte dial 16800 a few years ago and it was by no means in the greatest of condition. But I had it serviced and found a better tritium insert and now I'm just enjoying it. Mine has an aftermarket crystal in it, and I guess I should get a gen crystal, but I'm not going to worry about it right now. My hands are original, but they show the typical corrosion the early 16800 hands were prone to. Sometimes 'original' isn't that pretty. BTW, my 16800 only sees light duty these days, I'm trying not to tear it up. A lot of people figure these matte dials are only going to go up in value. Luckily, I have a franken for when the going gets tough If I tear it up, I can always build another one! You could do it w/ the gen, but it would be a whole lot more expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 Hewlio, I think it's time for you to enjoy your new watch. +1 Enjoy the watch. It's a nice piece of history and probably looks great on the wrist. I'd agree that a tritium insert would be a nice addition but don't let that stand in the way of enjoying it now. Tritium, as alligoat says, doesn't always change colors uniformly. Plenty a vintage out there have hands, pearl, and dial that don't match in patina. Here's one I saw recently that is 100% original save for a replacement crystal : Enjoy your new piece. You have no reason not to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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