alligoat Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Certainly one of my favorite watches is the 6238 chronograph. Early on I purchased one from Angus and it did OK for a 1-1/2 yrs or so. Then I sent it off to Ziggy for a service and it's been solid ever since. It's on the right. At the same time I purchased a few V72 chronos like this Heuer on the left. This is a pre-Carrera model- late 50's, early 60's, pre 1964. Notice the assymetrical pushers- a V72/23 trademark. So my goal was to build a 6238 w/ the V72 movement, but until a year or so ago, a case wasn't available. Phong came up with one, but it was pricey- $1500+. But prior to that I had bought a V72 6239 case, etc. from DW. I had hoped to swap in a bezel from a CN 6238 rep, but that didn't work- typical rep story- chinese engineering means nothing is the correct size. So then I figured maybe a 6239 case and bezel with a 6238 dial and the V72 movt. Since I actually had two of the Heuer pre-Carrera chronos, I had my donor movement. I had also bought a Wittnauer V72 and a Wyler V72, but I liked them so much I didn't want to tear into them- I even bought another NOS Wittnauer dial for restoration. But my watchmaker couldn't fit the Heuer movement in the DW 6239 case. What to do next? So I sat on it for over a year- patience??? Anyway, at the last Houston GTG, a guy Daytona Dragon told me about another watchmaker that was very good at building watches. In the meantime I'd had my Heuer serviced and took all my parts down to this watchmaker. He looked at it and a week later told me it wouldn't fit. Around this time I was talking to ubi and he told me what the problems were that he had had with a DW case in building his 6263/5. So I went to see my watchmaker and he told me that he figured that the Heuer plates were too big for the DW case and that was why it wouldn't fit in the DW case. The Heuer chrono is big- 38mm case. I'd brought along the Wittnauer on the off chance it might work- the case was small- 35.4mm. so I gave him the Wittnauer and said 'let's give it a try'. A few days later I got a call and he said it would work. Here it is on a gen 78350 w/ 571 ends: When I had ordered the DW 6239, it was the silver dial w/ black subdials. I never checked the subdial hands, but they are white! They're not correct, but I kinda like them. Needless to say, I have a black set on order. I'd never serviced the Wittnauer, so it's back to watchmaker #1 for a service. WM#2 said the minute counter wheel was kinda shot, so I may be ordering another one from Blake at ScotchWatch. I've got a couple of other chronos which are very similar to the Rolex 6238/9. Here's a Baylor I picked up for maybe $300- it's got a Landeron 248 movt and a 24 hr world bezel- nice silver dial, similar to the older Rolex aged silver dials A couple of years ago I picked up this Sinn 303 Silber. Of all the watches I own, this is hands down the most accurate- to within seconds a month! Guilloched silver dial which looks almost beige- WR to 200m/660ft. Certainly a great value- I paid $1550, 2-3 years ago. It is a 'fine tuned' 7750! Oh, what got me going again on the transitional 6238/9 was a watch I saw on VRF. It's a 6238 with a 6239 bezel! It's a Peruvian Air Force watch! It's redundant, but beautiful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Excellent post and watches. Valuable information for those of us heading down similar roads. I love that Sinn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Alli - I bet a DJ bezel would fit on your 6238. You might see if any of our collectors will sell them individually. Or, if not, pick up a cheap DJ rep (or 2) & try the bezel. That is the way I do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Beautiful selection, alligoat, especially the transitional! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted August 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 I love that Sinn... Thanks Ronin, it's certainly one of my favorite watches. I think of it as a poor man's Daytona, but it also has the day-date which I like in a watch. At first I liked the orange/red hands and markings on the tachymeter scale, but they also make it with just black markings, a little more subtle. Thanks Freddy for the DJ suggestion. May get out the calipers and study it a little more. JMB would be another option, have him fab up one. But for now I'm just going to enjoy the watch, get it serviced, maybe swap out the subdial hands. WM#2 said he had to broach the SD hands, sound familiar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted August 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Thanks, LH. You and I share a love for the 6238 and I appreciated your sharing the pic of your DW 6238 case last week. Luckily my 6239 case is a few years old and didn't have the 'tuma' at three o'clock. It's always a shame when the rep mfrs take a step back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiman12 Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Love it M!!!! LLOOVVEEE IT!!! Everyone that are in love with the Cosmograph manual winds should pick up this little book... http://www.patrizziauction.com/index.php/en/catalogs-and-books/patrizzi-and-co-books I've recently received mine and it is jammed packed full of information in a small format. What is interesting is that that there is no "hard and fast" rule as to which part should go with which case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblueprince Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Great story, pics and info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted August 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 Thanks Chi and TBP for the kind words. Chi, I ordered the Patrizzi book, thanks for the lead. It's funny how with vintage Rolex the rules don't always apply. Now days they've become much more anal about these things- stuff they wouldn't have worried about 40-50 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 BTW, raffles sells a DJ bezels that DOES fit over the T21 crystal. It is a 1mm smaller in diameter than the DW case, but looks very interesting(old post I know but tried this last night) E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Very enjoyable read. I have so far avoided the V72 builds but may have to make this a 2012-13 project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 BTW, raffles sells a DJ bezels that DOES fit over the T21 crystal. It is a 1mm smaller in diameter than the DW case, but looks very interesting(old post I know but tried this last night) E Maybe you could give me a link to that bezel, E! Here's my 6238/9 next to my 6239 Albino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'll try to take comparative pictures tonight or tomorrow. There is no link I can find on his site for it. E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Alligoat - Have you considered filing/sanding the engravings off the bezel? Not perfect, but I think that would look passable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Wouldn't be too hard to make a plain one with the same dimensions as the engraved one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Someone beat me to the Chiman 6234 dial DW has this case on fleaBay The bezel could be smoothed over Here is the picture of the Raffles bezel over the DW stock bezel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted March 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Here's one of the variations which I had at one time Ephry The V72 is on the left, cartel on the right. I guess I could get jmb to trim the V72 bezel down a little on the OD- make it look thinner, more like the cartel in that respect. Edited March 12, 2012 by alligoat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 I think that would work alright. E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Wow! Stunning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 I would love to get my hands on one of those albino dials, or whatever they are called. E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 I remember doing an eyeball estimate on the dimensions of a proper 6238 bezel some time ago. I can retrieve my notes if someone wants to revive that project. Like jmb says, it would be a piece of cake for him to turn one out, and it would be more straightforward than blanking an engraved 6239 bezel. The problem with a 6238 build is still the dial, as there are no satisfactory ones out there. The best remains the cartel 7750 dial that's on alligoat's transitional. DW produced a small batch of 6238 dials two years ago, and they were some of the most horrible dials he's ever produced. Here's hoping for a decent one from one of our aftermarket friends, as I would definitely go through the pain of another V72 build just to get a good 6238 at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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