EE6263 passes muster

[dieselpower]

I thought I would share a little story with you. Some may know that I owned an EE6263 which I modded to a fairly good standard then sold to a good friend (outside RWG). He has just told me that he was wearing the watch at a function in the Savoy Hotel London and that a gentleman sat at his table was talking about watches and that they were a great passion of his. He was showing off his new(ish) steel Daytona. My friend could not resist putting the EE to the test. I had assured him that visually all but the most hardened WIS would be fooled but he decided to give it a go. He started chatting to the Daytona man and said that he also had a steel Daytona that he had inherited from his father. The somewhat skeptical fella asked to have a look and then his jaw hit the floor. He asked my friend if he had any idea how much that watch was worth and my friend said "no". It was willed to him by his late father, was never going to be sold and he really didn't care. The man drooled over the watch, held it in his hands, played with the controls etc etc. The watch totally fooled him and my friend was having a little giggle inside all the time.

I myself have not yet tried to palm off a rep as gen but was very tempted recently when I was at a polo match. But that's another story......

The EE:

[again]

I thought I would share a little story with you. Some may know that I owned an EE6263 which I modded to a fairly good standard then sold to a good friend (outside RWG). He has just told me that he was wearing the watch at a function in the Savoy Hotel London and that a gentleman sat at his table was talking about watches and that they were a great passion of his. He was showing off his new(ish) steel Daytona. My friend could not resist putting the EE to the test. I had assured him that visually all but the most hardened WIS would be fooled but he decided to give it a go. He started chatting to the Daytona man and said that he also had a steel Daytona that he had inherited from his father. The somewhat skeptical fella asked to have a look and then his jaw hit the floor. He asked my friend if he had any idea how much that watch was worth and my friend said "no". It was willed to him by his late father, was never going to be sold and he really didn't care. The man drooled over the watch, held it in his hands, played with the controls etc etc. The watch totally fooled him and my friend was having a little giggle inside all the time.

I myself have not yet tried to palm off a rep as gen but was very tempted recently when I was at a polo match. But that's another story......

The EE:

i think tha your watch is discreet replica but is i look it i know immediately that is not an original rolex

the gentlemen in the savoy hotel, i think, is not a competent of watch and in particular of rolex.............

cheers

[Watchmeister]

No matter how good a rep/franken is your friend still got lucky. There is enough Rolex expertise in the world that you never know. He could just as easily have found a person who took one look and knew.

[dieselpower]

I realise this rep is far from fool proof. The watch in question has improved since this photo was taken and now sports a gen folded link bracelet. That coupled with the gen crown and gen T21, rotorless movement and flat case back iron out most of the easy 'tells' I'm sure you'll agree. The 1 1 0 spacing and curved 's' on the bezel are give aways but I think you'd have to be quite knowledgeable to spot that. Of course the sub dial spacing is also a tell but again, you need quite a keen eye (and memory - not having a gen on hand to compare it to) for that to be noticed. Also, and this is the main point, alot of people who know a certain amount about gens have no idea that such reps exist and so they are fooled before they even take a good look because they immediately assume it must be gen!

That was certainly the case with the fellow at the Savoy. I posted the story merely for amusements sake and not a serious analysis of the tells on a rep 6263. Lets face it, we all know what they are.

[flex]

unless you have a gen dial, bezel, and bracelet.. it's not hard to tell the 'tells'..

[donerix]

What people often forget is that "in the wild" people don't just see a watch, but rather a complete image. So if they see the right person in the right environment with the right watch the thought of a fake never comes up. So I think in your friends case everything played well together. I think that's why vintage reps are the best to pull of (if they are done right).

After all they weren't that expensive when they came out and could have been passed along from one generation to another.

We also tend to forget that very few people (especially gen owners) look at a watch like the people on this forum do. They don't think about finding tells or differences, because they bought the real article and the question doesn't come to mind while all we do is to try to correct the smallest flaw.

I bought a MBK GWSD last month in Bangkok and wore it right away without doing anything to except to remove the horrible pearl. On my way back I stopped in Miami and went to the jewelry district looking for a pearl or a complete insert. I got offers to buy the watch from people working in two of the stores (for a watch that everybody here would have spotted in a second). Why? Because the watch was presented in the right context (guy over 40 in the right attire). And forget ADs, most people working there know basically nothing about watches, especially old ones.

I always tell my friends when it's a rep and other people have never questioned me.

[lhooq]

I agree with donerix about the context and the compelte image.

Perversely, it may be wishful thinking on our part to extrapolate the average level of knowledge in this sub-forum to the general public.

In my experience, most people didn't notice that you were wearing a watch. Of that small subset that did and expressed an interest in watches, an even smaller number is into vintage pieces. Continue whittling that pool down until you reach that one person in ten thousand (and that's being kind) who spotted the wrong font used on 'COSMOGRAPH'.

Your friend wasn't lucky. The odds were heavily in his favor.

To look at it another way: If someone shoved a $98 Graham rep in my face and asked me what I thought, I would probably say, "Nice watch. Heh, that crown guard is really something!" Why? Because I know absolutely nothing about Grahams, other than that stupid crown guard.

[JoeyB]

In my experience, most people didn't notice that you were wearing a watch.  Of that small subset that did and expressed an interest in watches, an even smaller number is into vintage pieces.  Continue whittling that pool down until you reach that one person in ten thousand (and that's being kind) who spotted the wrong font used on 'COSMOGRAPH'.  

Exactly. In fact in my experience, the only ones who got close enough to see any 'tells' were female and not interested in my watch. Neither was I in those moments...

No one has ever questioned me if my watch was a 'fake' or not, and that includes an accidental and not very comfortable encounter with the AD in Waikiki. I think it's all in one's own presentation. 

[freddy333]

The average Rolex owner knows NOTHING. This is especially true of the typical owner of a modern Rolex watch. Even though I have been collecting watches for more than a quarter of a century, it is only in the last 4-5 or so years (years after I joined TZ) that I feel I have sufficient knowledge to tell most gens from their rep/franken counterparts out in the wild. We, here & on a handful of collector websites, see things that almost no average owner is even aware of. Heck, most Rolex watchmakers are not even aware of the AR below the cyclops on some of the recent sports models!

[Dizzy]

Freddy is right.

Its rare to run across a jeweler or general watchmaker that has anywhere near the knowledge of some of the senior members here. I was talking to a watchmaker that works on the odd Rolex once in a while and has for the past 20 years. I was quoting part numbers and crystal reference numbers and he just looked at me like a dear staring into headlights. He was trying to figure me out, and even asked me if I worked for Rolex. I laughed and said 'no' and that my hobby is vintage Rolex.

Even the guys and "experts" on the gen forums dont have the knowledge of the little things. 95% of the guys on the gen forums just know how to drop a watch off at a watchmaker and hand over a credit card when they want a new crystal or bracelet. Even some of the biggest self proclaimed "experts" on the Rolex forums are the first to comment "Nice watch!!" when some jackass posts a pic of a Noobmariner (yes JJA that was YOU haha!) We (rep forums) go out and research the parts, find out how close it is to gen and all the differences, order the parts, then learn how to install the parts!! Thats what makes this place so great!

[mastrmindalliance]

Recent experience has taught me that even WIS's need to have actual knowledge of the actual flaws to spot our reps.

And from across the room, or even arms distance? Forget it.

(by actual flaws i mean for example; the sunken date wheel on a PO chrono, not myths/outdated info like ticking hands and rusting steel).

[Ronin]

I think our (over) analysis of macro photos makes us paranoid.

[dieselpower]

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that they're not watching me...

[Dizzy]

lol

I think our (over) analysis of macro photos makes us paranoid.

+1