Very interesting Vintage Sub On Ebay

[Nanuq]

Good luck! He mentioned in his notes that it's a 5510. I would have sworn it's a 6538.

[lhooq]

High bid is down to $31K with less than an hour to go. Are you still in this, Jojo?

[JoJo35]

..bailed, like almost everyone else!

[lhooq]

Full credit to the guys who are sticking to their guns and are still in it, but I think you made the right choice.

[Nanuq]

Why, JoJo, because of the USA bracelet, on a Swiss 1958 watch?

[lhooq]

...and here comes the roller coaster at 10 minutes: 40K then 50K, driven up by a guy with 5 feedback.

Check in for more live-blogging updates!

EDIT: $55K! Oh, the humanity!

UPDATE 2: New player, with a very tentative increase of a few hundred bucks. Shot down. Get out of here, piker!

[Ronin]

Just finished reading all the Q&A, and checking out Feedback and Bidders as well.

Two things stand out:

1.) Bidder a****e has their feedback marked (private). Could this be "Rolex" or a corporate interest?

2.) While I buy his story. Looking through his feedback, he is a "woodworker" now. It was found in a sock drawer. He has also sold odd things like a Zippo. Could you imagine if he found this watch in a piece of furniture he was restoring? He is a very articulate, tech savvy, 81 yr old.

Over @ $66,100

[lhooq]

Final minute and we're back above $60K. This will be a nail-biter.

$66,100 to a sniper! Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!

[Nanuq]

Hooooaaaaahh! That was exciting!

[Justasgood]

I sent the guy a private offer of $750.00 cold hard cash. I figured an old guy like that shouldn't have to expose himself to that much excitement........he said no.

[Nanuq]

I sent the guy a private offer of $750.00 cold hard cash. I figured an old guy like that shouldn't have to expose himself to that much excitement........he said no.

Dang, so that's the reason he rejected my offer of $500 out the door! Drat!

Seriously, I've been in email contact with him for the last several days, I really have the notion the old boy is in way over his head here. I gave him all kinds of advice and I see at least some of it sunk in. He's not accepting Paypal anymore, and it appears he's setting up a private meet with the winner. Good. I hope he took the rest of my advice.

What a great auction! It sure added some spice to a weekend in Alaska!

[Watchmeister]

Nanuq-

That must have been fun. Did you find any additional info via email?

[theblueprince]

The old boy needs a USA version of Mike Wood to facilitate the sale!

[FxrAndy]

well it sold for over 66k, I hope the old guy gets it and enjoys it

[panerai153]

I think this old guy can take care of himself. He didn't get through one of the most grueling of surgical specialty residencies (Neurosurgery) by being a dummy. Several years as a flight surgeon and then 35 years of private practice. folks this isn't "Joe sixpack"! I believe that from his sales items, he has a variety of interests. He sold some serious deep sea fishing tackle on Ebay (They don't give away Fin-Nor reels). I would expect that he found woodworking a complementary hobby to his profession (Splitting wood as opposed to splitting skulls!!!) Seriously, most of the specialty surgeons I have worked with are very detail oriented and making fine furniture would have many analogs to surgery. (If you make a mis cut, bad things happen, if you hit it too hard, it splits)

He is being excoriated by the "experts" on VRF, none of whom I expect did any bidding, except for Steve Mulholland. Although I would bet that several of those scumbag low ball pleas to end the auction early were from contributors to the various genuine Rolex forums. Some of their diatribes may be a direct result of the old guy telling every one of them NO!!, when they tried to trick him into selling early. Once they were found out, they unleashed their negative posts to make him look like a scammer and a scoundrel. I sincerely hope that he has the last laugh.

[JoeyB]

I wonder what happened to the guy who offered $80,000. 

[theblueprince]

Sad to hear the gen Rolex forum guys are dissing him. But TOTALLY expected. They really are a majority of utterly clueless d1cks with a few decent guys fighting to be heard.

Edited December 6, 2010 by TheBluePrince

[Nanuq]

He is being excoriated by the "experts" on VRF

Nothing new there. Unfortunately.

[Prsist]

Here are a couple articles I found written about this:

The Mysertious Vintage Rolex Submariner 5510 Dive Watch

by Kyle on December 05, 2010 6retweet Share6 Update #2 — SOLD!

Wow. All I can say is Wow. That was one heck of an auction. I won’t pursue the Buyer, but maybe (and I hope) that the sleuths at Hodinkee will try to see who stepped up and came away with the prize. Nice job guys!

UPDATE!

WHAT??? As I am writing this post, it seems that major bids are being RETRACTED which I believe is due to skepticism of the watch’s story. The top bid went from $63,000+ to $61,000+ NOW DOWN (YES DOWN!!) TO $31,011!!!! It is perhaps a very unfortunate turn of events — this lack of confidence in the watch can only be pinned upon the Seller who has not been able to provide confidence in his story, not met requests to provide more photographs, and in my view has even made contradictory statements by professing to be naive as to the value of the watch when clearly he is not a naive person.

Would you bid $60,000+ on this photo and a story?

I just learned about this Vintage Rolex Submariner 5510 watch listing on eBay tonight when Hodinkee published an interview with the watch’s owner. Readers of this blog know that I’m not a big Rolex guy, but I am always one for a good watch with a good story. I wish I had learned about this one sooner, because let me say — I have my doubts about this one. Not that my doubts can’t be answered, it’s just that more time is needed to investigate this story thoroughly.

Since my run-in with Christie’s over a fake “Howard Hughes” watch that the auction house sold despite serious questions as to its provenance (read my full coverage of this saga HERE), I am skeptical of high profile vintage watches with a “too good to be true” story behind them. Even the so-called “experts” can and are fooled sometimes.

Anyway, back to this “Vintage Rolex Submariner Dive Watch” — why I am skeptical? Well…

• No box, no papers
• Sub-par pictures and refusal of Seller to provide more despite numerous Bidder requests (Seller says there is not enough time to do so — which is total BS in my opinion)
• Story sounds good, but no way to corroborate it
• Seller professes naivete at the watch’s value – but seemingly contradicts his naivete by a) having sold an Omega Marine Chronometer for $3,100 in Dec’09, and referring to the watch as chance to own a “rare iconic timepiece”"

But mostly I was struck by a “Q&A” exchange between Seller and possible Bidder on the eBay page — this really got me wondering…

Q: Bob, Like many other watch enthusiasts all over the internet, I have been following this listing with great interest. Many questioners have been warning you against scams, but may I ask for a little verification that your own story is what you say it is? Do you have any original papers for this watch, or verification that you indeed served in the military in the time and place you describe? I notice that you sold an Omega Marine Chronometer in Dec 21, 2009 for over $3000, yet you claim that you had no idea your Rolex would go for more than $50 or $100. You seem to be more eBay savvy than that. Even if you are using someone else’s eBay account, it is easy enough to take your watch to a jeweler for an appraisal, or simply type in “Rolex dive watch” with the reference number that you have into the eBay web page or even Google to see that this watch is worth easily over $10,000. Sorry for these questions. I want to believe you, but everyone needs to be careful on eBay, sellers AND buyers. Dec-04-10

A: Very good point. I have my discharge papers and dozens of photographs of myself on Kwajalein. I don’t have any of the original papers on the watch, nor copies of my orders to Kwajalein. I’m not a watch person. I bought the Omega Marine Chronometer when I was refreshing my astronavigation skills preparatory to an ocean crossing in my boat in the mid 70’s. (didn’t happen) I kept the watch for years, finally deciding I should cash it out because I never wore it. It’s heavy and awkward. I knew it was valuable because I haggled with the vendor and paid $800 for it, which was about half the going price. Remember, I only paid $70 for this Rolex and had no good reason to investigate its worth. The market value would be established by auction on eBay. Like most doctors of my ilk, I’m a financial imbecile – as I have demonstrated here to all and sundry.

This little exchange was all I need to say “You now what? The story doesn’t add up!” It could add up — but it doesn’t — I wish the Seller would have shared more photos or something to give serious collectors more confidence.

http://blog.perpetuelle.com/index.php/watch-news/the-mysertious-vintage-rolex-submariner-5510-dive-watch/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FirstInWatches+%28First+In+Watches.com%29&utm_content=Gmail

Interview - The Man Behind The Most Talked About eBay Listing In A While: The Owner of THAT Submariner (UPDATED)

{ display:inline; } Seeing a Rolex Submariner Ref 5510 show up on eBay is not something that happens often. Rarer still is finding one being sold by its original owner. Having no prior knowledge of this highly sought after timepiece and certainly no expectation for what would transpire upon its listing, this unsuspecting seller ignited one of the most furious bidding wars and discussed items on eBay over the past few months. The auction in question will come to an end this evening, rewarding the winning bidder with not only a true classic, but one hell of a story to go with it.

We spoke with the owner first hand, and here's the story.

The journey begins 52 years ago, at a Navy Exchange on Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands. It was here that a young aviation medical student, Bob, spent what was likely the best $70 of his life (much to the chagrin of his wife). When asked why he chose this particular watch he replied, "I needed a dive watch and this was one of the few available," as he recalled looking through multiple dive watches. Being an avid diver, the intention was simply to time air reserves on his dives.

For much of the next 35 years that's exactly what the watch did. Bob spoke fondly of his diving experiences both in Navy at the Marshall Islands as well from a home in the Bahamas, where he lived through the 80's. Serving its purpose faithfully for over half a century (a testament to the caliber 1530 still ticking away inside), the watch has spent the last decade tucked inside a drawer.

Until last week that is, when Bob decided to sell a few personal belongings on eBay for spare change. Completely unaware of the significance of the watch, the auction began with no reserve, at $9.95.

Needless to say, Bob was in for a shock. "I thought it was a mistake!" he said, upon seeing the bids go beyond the $30K mark. He asked his son to help research the watch, uncovering its identity and significance, they realized just what they had on their hands.

Through the week the bidding has steadily climbed to the $63,100 where it sits at the time of this writing. While the buyer might not be getting much in the way of papers and boxes, they will be getting a living, breathing "history in the making" purchase from this vivacious and genuine original owner. Bob has offered to give a written history to the winning bidder as documentation. After getting the chance to speak with him, I highly recommend taking the time to sit and discuss the history of the watch face-to-face.

While it is true that going to a larger, more prestigious auction house would have offered a more glamourous exposure to collectors, eBay provides a fitting location given the unlikely story behind its listing. When asked if he had any second thoughts about selling the watch, now knowing its significance, he replied simply "none at all."

Be sure to catch the conclusion of this story with the ending of the auction at 10:30PM EST (7:30PM PST) tonight by clicking here.

A special thanks to Bob for taking the time to speak with us here at Hodinkee.

Also, if you had any doubts about how interested the watch collecting community has been in this watch,

click here

to see all four pages of questions that Bob has received (including some offensively low offers in the early days of the listing).

Update:

This sale has closed. The final minutes were really exciting, with four cancelled bids dropping the price from over $60,000 back down to $31,000, only to have it re-climb to a final selling price of $66,100.

Also, you may have seen several disparaging posts about this sale on other blogs and forums asserting that this seller's story simply didn't add up - noting that he would not add additional pictures. What those people failed to remember is that eBay does not allow you to add new pictures after a certain point in the auction, and when he created this listing, he was expecting to earn just a few hundred dollars.

Below are some pictures of the original owner wearing the watch throughout the years.

Where the Watch Was Originally Purchased

Honolulu, 1959Waikiki August '59 ( age 29 ) On way back to USAChristmas, 1979

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2010/12/5/interview-the-man-behind-the-most-talked-about-ebay-listing.html

[panerai153]

Sad to hear the gen Rolex forum guys are dissing him. But TOTALLY expected. They really are a majority of utterly clueless d1cks with a few decent guys fighting to be heard.

I have lost a lot of respect for some of those guys after this (Actually a few of them were not on my "A"list before). What really made me angry was the post by "Viper" that was and out and out lie. He totally made up a Bull S**T story about the 1570 movement ticking away in the 5510, then wonders "What happened to the 1530 that should have been in the watch" Luckily, several of the other members pounced on him pretty hard. basically calling him out that he lied in his post. What all this sounds like is a bunch of spoiled brats whining because they didn't steal the watch from the seller, or they don't have enough money to afford it. They made a really big deal about the USA bracelet. Why? The seller plainly said that he wore the watch as his primary watch for many years , probably only taking it off when he scrubbed in for surgery. What the Hell do they expect from a 1958 watch, Bracelets wear out. Probably since he was just a short drive south of Dallas, the watch got sent through the RSC in Dallas, maybe several times. More than likely at some point in time, the bracelet was changed for a US bracelet, totally usual for this age watch. After all when you look at the for sale posts, how many 1680,s from rthe late 60's and early 70's still have the original 9315 bracelet and 380 end links? Not many that I can see. I know one thing, there are a couple of VRF guys that i wouldn't buy a Timex from, much less a Rolex!

[Nanuq]

I really like the photos. Good ol' Bob looks like a heck of an interesting guy.

Better keep that beach shot away from Miss Understood though...

[Nanuq]

I know one thing, there are a couple of VRF guys that i wouldn't buy a Timex from, much less a Rolex!

Roger that. I posted some photos over there of an all-original, single owner DRSD with the original band even, and they shot it down because it had the "wrong hands and bezel."

Pfffffft. Let 'em stew in their own juices, sez me.

[Ronin]

Roger that. I posted some photos over there of an all-original, single owner DRSD with the original band even, and they shot it down because it had the "wrong hands and bezel."

Pfffffft. Let 'em stew in their own juices, sez me.

Wow, that is incredible. Clearly the VRF guys fail to grasp the concept that parts wear out, and replacement parts change over time. Combine that with the fact to some people it is 'just a freaking watch', and as long as it can be attached to the wrist-- care very little about the subtleties of a bracelet or clasp.

[OI812]

Roger that. I posted some photos over there of an all-original, single owner DRSD with the original band even, and they shot it down because it had the "wrong hands and bezel."

Pfffffft. Let 'em stew in their own juices, sez me.

I've been dealing with guy's like them for many years. Here's my summary of what you'll find....

- Some are very good people with a VERY serious love and appreciation for vintage watches. These guy's are wonderful to deal with and are 1st class individuals. They own some of the most beautiful watches you'll ever see and are very, very knowledgeable.

- Some are spoiled 2nd and 3rd, etc. generation silver spoon brats who have never earned a nickel on their own. They love to brag about their collections and are very often the first to criticize, etc. etc. etc. Most of this group have next to zero TRUE knowledge, but, are the first to fire up their piehole.

- Some are dealers who love to help the silver spoon crowd spend daddies/grandpa's $$$$....

- Some have owned/own 1 or 2 high end vintage watches, but, are very serious about learning as much as they can from the truly knowledgeable members, etc.

- Some are just serious WIS who could never afford to own the watches they love, but, are very passionate about Horology, etc.

I could go on and on and on, but, the moral is they are a pretty diversified group and that's why you get the wide ranging reactions/opinions about this particular watch auction. (and any other subject you throw at them.. )

I for one am VERY proud for ole' Bob and hope he enjoys the 60k! Having passed an email or two with him I have no doubt that he will!

[lhooq]

Clearly the VRF guys fail to grasp the concept that parts wear out, and replacement parts change over time. Combine that with the fact to some people it is 'just a freaking watch', and as long as it can be attached to the wrist-- care very little about the subtleties of a bracelet or clasp.

That was an odd line of attack on the watch. The way some posters were reacting, you'd think they'd found a B-17 on the moon: "How could that possibly be on it?!"