PeteM Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) I did promise to do some side by side pics a while ago so here is a Gen 111H caseset next to the new 111J and the new 219. As you know both these reps come from different factories so they are the cases we can expect from each on all the new PAMs to come I am not sure what factor the 111J comes from but the 219 comes from the HB factory as does the 177 and I understand the 005 (I am sure if I got that wrong it will be posted ) Having taken advice from a true PAM expert, I can say the 111 case is the better built and lends itself to projects more readily than the others, this in the main is due to its construction. I thought it would be useful to show by pics how they compare....hopefully you can draw your own conclusions unfortunately I have forgotten which is which !!! ;) But I am sure you will be able to tell for yourselves given the clues in the pics The 219 case should be easy given the clue is in the CG!! The gen case is complete ie gen CG, gen crown, gen crystal etc but thats all I can remember Edited February 21, 2011 by PeteM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Make you wonder what took them so bloody long to get it sorted really. I love Pams but I cant tell whats what , They all look great . Thanks for putting it together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobster Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 thanks for this post, very useful. I think the gen is the far right one btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosnik Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Stunning pictures Pete! Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Thanks guys Quality f my pics seem to be hit and miss but I think you get the idea.....Its surprises me how the gen CG lever looks inset but in my hand its totally flush!! Plus looking at the pics my preference shape wise is the 219 case and as D said the 111 is more suited to the older case styles... Stunning pictures Pete! Thank you. Thanks my friend..... I see the 'dark side' keeps calling you back.... You are now a PAM Head mate as well as a Petrol Head !!!!!! Edited February 21, 2011 by PeteM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelizer Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Great pictorial Pete! Nice to have you back in full throttle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Great comparison. I have not seen either of the reps in the flesh but the 111 looks vastly superior. I do have a question for the 219 owners though. Does it have a normal bezel construction. It looks very odd coming off the case - almost like it is one piece with the case or a different way of seating on the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Those pammies have come a long way... Thanks for the pictorial, Pete! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Panerais are finally competing with the likes of other super reps now Pete. Excellent as always Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Great comparison. I have not seen either of the reps in the flesh but the 111 looks vastly superior. I do have a question for the 219 owners though. Does it have a normal bezel construction. It looks very odd coming off the case - almost like it is one piece with the case or a different way of seating on the case. an interesting question. here 3 pictures with a hublot-maker pam 104 ultimate case. see the bezel construction. i hope the maker didn't make the same with the new pams 005, 219, 177. rolli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babola Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 an interesting question. here 3 pictures with a hublot-maker pam 104 ultimate case. see the bezel construction. i hope the maker didn't make the same with the new pams 005, 219, 177. rolli Yes they did Rolli, exactly the same build unfortunately. They went with the easier design for the rep buyer masses, not expecting in their wildest dreams some of us may actually have a go at modding Standard shall I call it 'normal' gen and rep Pam cases come with a bezel that sits on a raised ring which is part of the case. These cases from Hublot maker come with a bezel that pushes inside the case like a cylinder. This bezel is both bezel and the rehaut in one. It appears to be friction fitted, i.e. without the usual bezel gasket. That's what I can decipher from looking at mine from few different angles with a magnifier. Pete, good comparo, indeed. It proves once again that gen is a gen...while both 111J and 219 cases are nice 'upgrade' to the standard rep cartel casesets from '06 until now, they still haven't lived up to the 1:1 hype, IMO. I'm glad the 111J came out as it caters for a great and wide range of models just fine, from pre-V to pre-A and up to F-series. Little bit of case work and final touches and you have a winner with the 111J case as a base. cheers, D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hawkes Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Yes they did Rolli, exactly the same build unfortunately. They went with the easier design for the rep buyer masses, not expecting in their wildest dreams some of us may actually have a go at modding Standard shall I call it 'normal' gen and rep Pam cases come with a bezel that sits on a raised ring which is part of the case. These cases from Hublot maker come with a bezel that pushes inside the case like a cylinder. This bezel is both bezel and the rehaut in one. It appears to be friction fitted, i.e. without the usual bezel gasket. That's what I can decipher from looking at mine from few different angles with a magnifier. So what does that mean? Is it that it's just not suited for your modding or whatever or is that the case design itself is bad for any watch because it's less sturdy or prone to waterdamages or whatever? Should people be afraid that their watch will fall apart while taking a walk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btocamelo Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) The 219 actually has a small notch under the bezel...like the old front loading EL cases. I'm not sure if the 005 has it as well, probably does since it's same case, same factory. You can see the notch in the first photo. I haven't taken the 219 apart to verify it's construction....but it does have that cool looking notch. Edited February 21, 2011 by btocamelo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelizer Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 So what does that mean? Is it that it's just not suited for your modding or whatever or is that the case design itself is bad for any watch because it's less sturdy or prone to waterdamages or whatever? Should people be afraid that their watch will fall apart while taking a walk? +1 Would be nice to know if it can survive a wave or two.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mir36 Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I have to ask. Please tell me the middle case in the stack pic is the gen. I am still fighting the notion of having to buy all new 111J case sets for my PreV builds. Someone please PM me the answer. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btocamelo Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Trust me...you get the 219 in your hand and it is a stunningly well made case set....even the crown guard lever looks better finished than the GEN CG...look at the photos. The bezel on the 219 has a notch for removal, like the old front loading cases on the 127 & 217.....I'm not sure if this is how the newer GEN case/bezel assembly is made. Even the lug screws on the 219 are exceptional...they are the proper length and when fully seated, they are flush on both sides.....none of that sunken lug screw syndrome that has always plagued these REP cases. Great comparison. I have not seen either of the reps in the flesh but the 111 looks vastly superior. I do have a question for the 219 owners though. Does it have a normal bezel construction. It looks very odd coming off the case - almost like it is one piece with the case or a different way of seating on the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hawkes Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I have to ask. Please tell me the middle case in the stack pic is the gen. I am still fighting the notion of having to buy all new 111J case sets for my PreV builds. Someone please PM me the answer. Thanks. No. Rep 111 in the middle, gen 111 under it. Also I don't know what's the case with the older models but if you compare the 111J case to the gen 111h.. the bezel is too high and/or the angle is off, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mir36 Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Thanks TH. I was worried that was the answer. I'm out of good reasons not to get these 111Js. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I've been saying this about the h-factory bezel since mid January but doesn't look like it registered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hawkes Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I've been saying this about the h-factory bezel since mid January but doesn't look like it registered. Oh I'm sure it got registered. I've read that plenty of times. The thing is that none of you pros ever care to say what that means. So the case constructions is not like the one the gen. Everyone got that. So what does this mean for the average guy that wants to wear a reliable watch out of the box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btocamelo Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I saw your pics....LOL I've been saying this about the h-factory bezel since mid January but doesn't look like it registered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) If we are talking about the overall shape of these rep cases then I would defintely go with the 219 but if we are talking about the getting the best overall case then its the 111 everytime.... Gen is far right...111 centre..then 219 Gen is bottom..111 centre..219 top I wouldnt take to much store of the gen CG in those pics it is very decieving...if some of you saw my post in the QC pics thread of my gen 217 CG the pics look the same in terms of inset of the lever... The CG lever on the gen is completely flush and square even under loupe and I have no idea why the pics seem to contradict that... But trust me guys the gen CG is still much better than the photos would lead you to believe... I have a spare polished gen RB CG and a new rep RB 111 CG laying about I will post some pics next to the 219 CG and try and get a more realistic shot of them.. The 111 will be broken down soon as I really dont like them but thats me Edited February 21, 2011 by PeteM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Oh I'm sure it got registered. I've read that plenty of times. The thing is that none of you pros ever care to say what that means. So the case constructions is not like the one the gen. Everyone got that. So what does this mean for the average guy that wants to wear a reliable watch out of the box? Tom, I don't like to quote myself but please tell me if I could have been any clearer when I wrote this: While aesthetically the H-factory case is the best rep case we have seen bar only JF, functionally it's far from replicating OEM design. Don't get me wrong the guys over at the H-factory did a lot of stuff right and I'm very thankful to them for setting the bar high, at least on some elements. The bezel on 177&219, and I imagine all forthcoming H-factory watches is a solid piece with rehaut, crystal bed & movement rest all milled in one piece. The movement rest is also the "collar" that's friction fitted into the part of the case with the lugs. There is a thin rubber gasket that goes around that collar that is supposed to seal the bezel assembly. As this gasket wears out the case will start "breathing". That is assuming the factory continues to install this gasket in the first place. This is all done for the sake of keeping mfg. vertically integrated not to mention saving a ton of scratch in the long run. This bezel design means that the bottom of the case can be simply sintered and used interchangeably with the bezel according to what's needed - manual or auto case. In addition, this bezel/midcase concoction being the only other cylindrical part aside from caseback and case tube makes it easier to machine. Those of you who got your 177s and 219s and then tested them in fully submerged pressure chambers for water resistance kind of rolled the dice. On the other hand, the Noob 111J may not come off as having the same "high gloss" finish as the H-factory cases but unlike them it's no sugar coated turd. What hinders the Noob it in the eyes of Joe Repcollector is its cloudy crystal, poor A/R and weaksauce lume. That's what most will see first when they put it side by side with H-factory PAMs. What they wont see unless they know where look is the level of machining and attention to detail on every component of the Noob case. It's on par or exceeding that of the old EL/Honpo cases we've come to love and hoard even though we may not ever need it To top it all off the Noob lug profile makes it suitable for both PreV and PreA builds with some shaping because its perfectly in between the two maxims - elongated and thinner for PreA and curvy and thick for PreV. Lastly the Noob is a good candidate for DLC because it has OEM bezel construction, which is when the bezel is just a lid that goes over the outside of the rehaut and is held in place by a nylon compression gasket. Here's the noob case with the bezel off: And then later in a response to the question about water pressure test popping either the crystal or the bezel: The crystal in h-factory PAMs is in snug and so is the bezel, I don't think you're in any real danger of popping either from quick decompression. What will eventually give is the gasket that seals the bezel. It's less than half as thick as the caseback gasket and is in direct contact with elements. As this gasket dries, stiffens and cracks the case will no longer be waterproof. Pool chlorine does interesting stuff to rubber, I would go as far as to recommend rinsing your rubber strap out after a swim in the pool and it's much higher quality not to mention much thicker kautschuk compound than that gasket. In addition consider PVD coating such a case. Would you spend $400 coating a project knowing that disassembly/re-assembly might get the bezel out of round by just enough to cause problems a little later when you go for a nice dip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hawkes Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Tom, I don't like to quote myself but please tell me if I could have been any clearer when I wrote this: And then later in a response to the question about water pressure test popping either the crystal or the bezel: Oh. Well. Erm. I at least indeed didnt register that it seems.. Didn't even find it on a quick search in the panerai section. Sorry and thank you. Man, you are really a dream crusher.. I was so excited about the 005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I wouldn't say he is a dream crusher. It just makes the dream a little more expensive. Using parts from both you will end up with one ridiculously good rep for what we used to pay for a mediocre one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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