sishac Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) So I picked up this asian red sub from a member on another board. I was told that the crystal was replaced with a clark and that it had a scratch on the inside. The crystal was VERY high, and I was told that it needed to be shaved down. I've never owned a sub, so I figured this would be a great first step. Earlier this week I decided that I was going to try my hand at modding this watch....I went to Harbor Freight and bought a crystal press, a digital caliper as well as a set of cheap metal files. My plan of action was as follows: Remove the bezel/insert and age the insert Remove the movement Trim the crownguards Replace the crystal The first thing I did was to pop off the bezel, so that I could age the insert. I was disappointed to see an 8 sided metal spring, instead of the gen type tension spring. I got over that and will eventually figure out how to put that back together (the bezel had a great feeling before!) There was a black gasket around the base of the crystal. With my new toy, the digital caliper, the first thing I did was measure the thickness of the watch. The watch measured 16.9mm thick...take a look at the picture below...that is a TOP HAT! From the various boards and a few gens that I've seen, I determined that, while there could be some leeway, a gen 1680 with the tophat crystal should be between 14mm and 15mm thick. So, obviously the crystal needed to be shaved down about 2mm. I settled on an ending thickness of 14.5mm I started the process by taking off the caseback using the duct-tape ball trick...worked like a charm...I took out the case gasket, and looked at the back. First, while the midcase says 1680, the caseback is from a 5513. I don't know if that makes a difference, but I was sort of impressed of the detail in the caseback (it was "produced" in the first quarter of 1972.) With a little help from the board I figured out what button to push to take out the stem, and after two case screw holders, out came my movement. I put it in a box and started working. I easily popped the crystal out from the midcase...it did crack a bit on the bottom, but as I was going to be shaving that off anyway, what did it matter. By my calculation, I needed to take roughly 2.4mm off of the crystal. I had a paint sanding sponge, and I simply started to rub back and forth, trying to keep a random pattern to keep things even. Periodically I checked with my digital caliper and eventually I got down 2.5mm. I put the case back and midcases together and put the crystal in the groove and measured. 14.5mm...perfect. I then turned to the midcase. I hear all this stuff about shaving crownguards...honestly I really couldn't see the differences between this case and a gen (I know there was a difference, I just couldn't see it.) I had read that the crownguards should not have an curve to them. In addition, I had read that from the back, there should be a "V" with a flat bottom. Unfortunately I didn't have a needle nose pliers to remove the case tube, so I could only do so much here. I did try to go and shape the crownguards at the top outside to make them flatter and more tapered at the top. Here is what I started with and here is what I ended up with...any comments or suggestions on how I could improve here would be appreciated....personally I think that I have to really open up the inside, but that requires that I remove that case tube, which I didn't do. After I had finished with the metal file, I used the same sandpaper sponge that I had used for the crystal to sort of go over all of the edges of the watch. I then used a cape cod cloth over that to go and try and shine things up. The outside of the crownguards still need to be polished as they are a bit rough. The rest of the watch shined up pretty well I think. I then tackled the insert. Before I bleached this insert, I bleached a pepsi insert that I had from my gmt. As RolexAddict had modified my GMT bezel to take the proper size GMT insert, I used the insert that came with the watch (a sub size insert) as a guinea pig. After about 3 5-minute sessions in a 50/50 water/bleach bath, the insert faded beautifully and actually looked like it had been in the sun for a few years. Now I tried it with the sub bezel. I know that this isn't the right bezel insert for this watch, but I wanted to do it anyway. I put the insert in the bleach solution and waited...nothing happened. After about a total of 20 minutes, I could see the sheen of the insert go, and it had faded very lightly....I then said lets go all the way, and put it in a 100% bleach solution for about 10 minutes...while there wasn't too much fading, it did turn sort of matte and lighted up a bit, so I figured that was good enough for that. I then went to reinstall my shaved crystal. I got out my new fancy crystal press, found two nylon dyes that fit, centered the datewheel and pressed. Nothing....I pressed more, NOTHING... With the crystal sitting in the proper seat of the case, it actually has some wiggle room. I have decided that in order to give it as much possibility of water-proof-ness (is that a word), I'm going to glue this crystal in and just leave it at that. I guess that when I shaved it down, the diameter of the crystal dropped a bit. So that will have to wait. Finally I said, lets put it all back together. I put the movement back in the case, inserted the crown and viola...nothing. Apparently the watch has stopped and will not start up. The watch was running fine when I started this afternoon, and I believe that it stopped when I initially took the crown out...I gave it a shake...nothing...I blew on it....nothing...I wound it up...nothing. I think at this point I have two options....either I learn how to remove hands and a dial and replace the movement, or I go to see my friendly neighborhood watchmaker and see if he can easily fix it without costing too much. Can anyone identify this movement for me though? I assume that it is a simple asian 21j movement, but the rotor is actually engraved (yes, I touched it with a pin and there are grooves on it)... So, that was my day...technically I did the mods that I wanted to do and other than the fact that the watch isn't working, and the crystal needs to be glued, (oh, and I lost one of the movement holder tab screws, so its being held in by only one tab) I'm pretty happy. The new crystal height seems very genuine to me, and the date magnification is perfect. I even ended up getting the scratch out of the inside of the crystal with some toothpaste. Of course, I put lots of little swirlys there, but it adds to the vintage character. Here is what it looks like right now: And of course, here are a before and after wirst shot: Before and After I hope that you enjoyed my writeup of my first watch mod potential....now hopefully I can get it fixed so that I can wear it. Edited July 30, 2011 by sishac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Yes that is an A21j movement, and I assume you did not break it .. but you might have thrown the keyless works out of adjustment. That is a very easy thing to throw out of alignment. It's the series of arms and cogs which let you wind the watch, set the time, and set the date all with one stem .. it's like a little transmission. I will bet you can not get the watch to come out of it's HACK position, thus it no longer runs. It is not broken, but it's not aligned and operating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sishac Posted July 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 So is this something that I can fix, or should I take it to a watch guy? By the way, thank you very much for responding!!! As far as getting it out of hack position, I can screw the crown all the way in, it just isn't running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 I agree, it's a 21J movement, and you likely messed up the keyless works. You can check the archives to attempt to fix it yourself, or find a rep friendly watchsmith. Harbor Freight also has a set of 'Easy outs' screw extractors. The small one will fit the crown tube to unscrew it with no damage to it. I'd suggest using UV cement for your crystal. freddy333 suggested it and it works great. Every one I've done since has been water tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselpower Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 I admire your approach to this watch and feel that there is a new modder in the making. Congratulations on the work and all the best for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pr0digy30 Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Keyless can be fixed on an A21J but it can be really frustrating... IIRC, it's a bunch of little levers all sitting on the baseplate. And then you have to try and put the datewheel and cover back on. Would be a learning experience to try and fix, but if your time is valuable... spend the $15 for a new movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Would be a learning experience to try and fix, but if your time is valuable... spend the $15 for a new movement. I was going to say this but if he gets a new movement he still has to pull out the new stem and place it back in without ruining the new keyless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Congratulations on your first modding attempt! I like that fearless, hung-ho, jump right in attitude. I predict in 2 years you'll read this again and be amazed at where you started, and where you'll be then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexaddict Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 sishac, press the release the stem button while the crown is just unscrewed at the winding position and pull out the crown and stem. The watch should run again. Then, enter again the stem/crown pushing at the same time the stem release button, it will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sishac Posted July 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 JJ - thank you for the suggestion, but that did not work. I guess now I decide whether I take it to my watch guy with a dollar limit to fix it, or I take the next step, buy a few new tools, and attempt to take off hands and a dial and replace a movement. So where do I get this movement, and which one is it? I want to make sure that my dial/hands fit this. Is it the MT-DG3804B for $26 or the MT-DG2813 for $21 from Otto Frei? Thanks - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexaddict Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Its the DG2813, the 3804 is a GMT movement (4 hands) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 LOVE this red sub.. I need one in my life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accutronitis Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) sishac I tried to send you a PM but you don't except PM's, anyways I'm not a pro but I'm very good at fixing watches and if you can't get the movement to work I can take a look at it at no charge if you like ? Edited January 31, 2017 by Accutronitis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogeha Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 58 minutes ago, Accutronitis said: sishac I tried to send you a PM but you don't except PM's, anyways I'm not a pro but I'm very good at fixing watches and if you can't get the movement to work I can take a look at it at no charge if you like ? Kind of you to offer, but this thread is from 2011 and the OP hasn't posted since January 2015. Maybe he doesn't log in often these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accutronitis Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 opps I guess I should have seen that, sorry...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikewatchestoo Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 Man, that is gorgeous love the strap combo! Awesome work man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now