jsw Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 Hi The Zigmeister, I've read a host of informative material you've put out. I really appreciate the effort you make, it enables newbies like myself to avoid making big mistakes. I have a question that has been bugging me for some time, and I can't really find any information using the forum's "search" button, if there is info on my quesion available then please point me in the right direction. I have always bought Swiss ETA movement replicas since it was my understanding that this is probably the best chance of getting a robust movement that will stand the test of time (if appropriately serviced). Now I just assumed that all my movements were made by a company called ETA and dropped into the replica watch. However, when I was getting a bracelet resized the jeweller was very skeptical about this being the case, he said "why would they put a good ETA movement in a piece of crap like that?!". So this triggered a thought process, around the question - are Swiss ETA movements in replicas really "Swiss ETA movements"? Could it be the cae that these are simply very well made clones, I guess I'm trying to understand what evidence is there that this is the case. After all, there must be hundreds of thousands of replica watches sold as having Swiss ETA movements, does ETA really have the bandwidth to supply this type of market? Is ETA not concerned that there brand is being devalued by supplying the replica market .... Lots of question but most funamentally - are Swiss ETA movements in replicas really "Swiss ETA movements"? I'd really appreciate any insight you can offer on this, Many thanks, JSW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Hi The Zigmeister, I've read a host of informative material you've put out. I really appreciate the effort you make, it enables newbies like myself to avoid making big mistakes. I have a question that has been bugging me for some time, and I can't really find any information using the forum's "search" button, if there is info on my quesion available then please point me in the right direction. I have always bought Swiss ETA movement replicas since it was my understanding that this is probably the best chance of getting a robust movement that will stand the test of time (if appropriately serviced). Now I just assumed that all my movements were made by a company called ETA and dropped into the replica watch. However, when I was getting a bracelet resized the jeweller was very skeptical about this being the case, he said "why would they put a good ETA movement in a piece of crap like that?!". So this triggered a thought process, around the question - are Swiss ETA movements in replicas really "Swiss ETA movements"? Could it be the cae that these are simply very well made clones, I guess I'm trying to understand what evidence is there that this is the case. After all, there must be hundreds of thousands of replica watches sold as having Swiss ETA movements, does ETA really have the bandwidth to supply this type of market? Is ETA not concerned that there brand is being devalued by supplying the replica market .... Lots of question but most funamentally - are Swiss ETA movements in replicas really "Swiss ETA movements"? I'd really appreciate any insight you can offer on this, Many thanks, JSW JSW - ETA make hundreds and hundreds of thousands of movements every year and are THE major supplier to the worldwide watch industry. And that industry also includes Chinese watch factories who buy ETA movts for their legitimate domestic market but not all of them get put into domestic brand name watches, some go into reps. ETA are well aware that this happens but international commercial rules mean that they have to trade in certain ways so it's difficult for them to stop the rep makers using their products in reps, and the fact that like any company they are profit driven so the loss of sales to the asian market would result in lower dividends for their shareholders - something they cannot afford not to have. So if you buy a rep with an ETA movt then it certainly is ETA although they do have other manufacturing plants outside of Switzerland (in asia actually) so an ETA is not necessarily made in Switzerland - but it's still ETA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 To add to what Finepics has said, most watches w/ ETA movements are real ETA's. The Chinese are replicating the 6497, the 7750, and who knows what else, and sometimes you may get sold a bill of goods (scammed), but most of the time, especially if you buy from our dealers here, you will get a real ETA. But your jeweler should be able to take the back off of your watch and see that it is a real ETA. If you can buy an ETA here in the US for $60+, you must realize that wholesale is half that if not less. ETA's are assembled in the far east, Malayasia, etc. and put into these watches for under $50. Granted, we are paying more because of the middleman, but that's ok. These watches aren't a piece of crap by any means anymore. ETA is also going to stop selling their movements in maybe 2009. They won't stop producing, but they won't be selling like they are now to outside parties. So this will be an intereesting development over the next few years and it will be interesting to see how it impacts our hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I have always wondered... what's to stop some company from making a cheap movement and stamping ETA on it? After all if they can stamp Rolex and Omega on watches, why can't they stamp Swiss ETA on anything and stick that in a watch? I mean from what I have seen, if open a caseback and it says ETA on it, it's ETA.... but what if it's not but just says it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Maybe they will if the supply dries up - at the moment they dont and it is possible to tell so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I have always wondered... what's to stop some company from making a cheap movement and stamping ETA on it? After all if they can stamp Rolex and Omega on watches, why can't they stamp Swiss ETA on anything and stick that in a watch? I mean from what I have seen, if open a caseback and it says ETA on it, it's ETA.... but what if it's not but just says it is? I think it wouldn't be any cheaper for the Chinese to produce their own high-beat 28.800 bph bullet proof and reliable automatic movements. I don't really care what they are as long as they work like a charm (all of mine run without ANY problems). Members have four-year old ETA watches which run flawlessly. And even if you hear about any problems with our ETAs it's usually badly installed caseback or rotor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cls Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Considering ETA is owned by Swatch, they are more than capable of building lots of cheap reliable movements. Check out the rest of the brands they own here: www.swatchgroup.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005SUBMARINER Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 ETA is also going to stop selling their movements in maybe 2009. They won't stop producing, but they won't be selling like they are now to outside parties. So this will be an intereesting development over the next few years and it will be interesting to see how it impacts our hobby. man rep prices are going to sky rocket ! in 2009 if that happens man ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I think it wouldn't be any cheaper for the Chinese to produce their own high-beat 28.800 bph bullet proof and reliable automatic movements. I don't really care what they are as long as they work like a charm (all of mine run without ANY problems). Members have four-year old ETA watches which run flawlessly. And even if you hear about any problems with our ETAs it's usually badly installed caseback or rotor. No what I meant was, what's to take someone from getting a cheap 21jewel asian movement, stamping "Swiss 27 Twenty Seven Jewel ETA" on it and sticking it in watches? Sure some people would know, but I personally would probably be fooled... I mean at this point in time all I know about spotting ETA is that it should say ETA on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkdc Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 You'll learn more as you study these watches. You can buy a new ETA 2824 movement for 50 bucks. It's not that expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 No what I meant was, what's to take someone from getting a cheap 21jewel asian movement, stamping "Swiss 27 Twenty Seven Jewel ETA" on it and sticking it in watches? Sure some people would know, but I personally would probably be fooled... I mean at this point in time all I know about spotting ETA is that it should say ETA on it. That certainly could happen and there is already an Asian movt that is very similar to the 2893's (it has a distinctive shaped rotor). We will just have to wait and see. At the moment there is no need for the rep makers to do this as the supply of ETA's is not a problem. Hopefully it will mean our reps will be worth something one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanyboy Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 A consortium of non-Swatch owned Swiss watchmakers sued Swatch a year or two ago to stop Swatch from selling ETA movements to Chinese manufacturers. The matter is currently winding its way through the EU legal system. I'll let everyone know what's going on after I get an update myself. Beany ETA is also going to stop selling their movements in maybe 2009. They won't stop producing, but they won't be selling like they are now to outside parties. So this will be an intereesting development over the next few years and it will be interesting to see how it impacts our hobby. man rep prices are going to sky rocket ! in 2009 if that happens man ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 A consortium of non-Swatch owned Swiss watchmakers sued Swatch a year or two ago to stop Swatch from selling ETA movements to Chinese manufacturers. The matter is currently winding its way through the EU legal system. I'll let everyone know what's going on after I get an update myself. Beany Thank god the whole EU legal system is so damn inefficient that it should take them a while to deal with that. Meanwhile we are definitely in the renaissance period for reps - make the most of it while it lasts!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Asian movements are improving by leaps and bounds. Witness the 7750 improvements in the last year. And some of the Seagull movements that I have seem to be doing very well- they keep great time and after a year and a half are still going strong. TTK's tuned sub w/ the asian 21j is another example, it will be interesting to see how it holds up over time. All in all, I expect the Chinese to fill the gap if the ETA's become scarce. But stocking up on a spare ETA or two wouldn't be bad insurance, although I think parts will still be available. Nowdays' it's cheaper to replace an ETA if much goes wrong, but in the future, that may not be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Watches International recently reviewed the Seagull Tourbillons - they were very impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005SUBMARINER Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 (edited) Asian movements are improving by leaps and bounds. Witness the 7750 improvements in the last year. And some of the Seagull movements that I have seem to be doing very well- they keep great time and after a year and a half are still going strong. TTK's tuned sub w/ the asian 21j is another example, it will be interesting to see how it holds up over time. All in all, I expect the Chinese to fill the gap if the ETA's become scarce. But stocking up on a spare ETA or two wouldn't be bad insurance, although I think parts will still be available. Nowdays' it's cheaper to replace an ETA if much goes wrong, but in the future, that may not be the case. I'M VERY impressed with this movement that powers my 090 it looks well built & so far iv regulated & she's keeping good time it has potential , dont know if The Zigmeister or otheres have review this movement , but i think it has lots of potential , im sure theres lots to improve but its a dam good start ! 1st improvement should be the regulator arm ! they should make it like the eta models 28XX with the regulator screw Edited November 21, 2006 by 2005SUBMARINER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 @ 2005submariner, Actually the bridge on the movment in your 090 is a copy of the bridge on the Rolex 3135 movement. The 3135 dates from the late 80's, whereas the ETA 2824/2836 series dates from the early 70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Actually the bridge on the movment in your 090 is a copy of the bridge on the Rolex 3135 movement. The 3135 dates from the late 80's, whereas the ETA 2824/2836 series dates from the early 70's. ... and it's a Sea-Gull ST25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 That certainly could happen and there is already an Asian movt that is very similar to the 2893's (it has a distinctive shaped rotor). We will just have to wait and see. At the moment there is no need for the rep makers to do this as the supply of ETA's is not a problem. Hopefully it will mean our reps will be worth something one day. And they run like a beuty!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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