Wildwest on the sales thread,your thoughts?

[Mike on a bike]

First off we know why, PP down can not lock out our senior guys.
Ok I get it, now how to keep some modicum of order. Minimum posts or time combination of both, references boy who is going to track that.

yes we have feedback but everyone has to get started.

 

    It seems the word is out that we are wide open. I for one do not want to spend my time checking out guys claims from other boards or non-vetted dealers and I'm sure neither do you. Our admins who donate their time would have to live here to monitor we need some rules till we get payment system working. I guess I can be told "so don't buy off guys unless you know them" this is not an answer it is a cop-out."

 

Are we so indifferent that we just accept it....................(your thoughts)

 

P.S.

I have sold to two fairly new low post members in the last month or so no problems, they post now and are contributing members. I tried to help them, much interaction via PM and it worked out well. All new people are not bad, we need new members but we must balance this against the rash of watch unloaders hitting our shores."

[Legend]

I agree with Mike that the sales thread being open to all would also mean that it increases the chance of scammers mingling with the honest folk and trying to pull fast ones, from time to time.

 

I appreciate the RWG crew for opening up the sales section to everyone to buy and sell freely while the PP issue is being sorted out.

 

Of late, we do see some highly dubious threads being started in the sales section. I also would like to see some form of control over the posts in the sales section but recognize that its no easy task.

 

Perhaps some form of interim vetting system can be in place for non-VIP members, something akin to that of high-value sales? I am suggesting this because by default, under old forum rules, any VIP member may post any sales, but not regular members. Perhaps this could bring some form of control to the RWG sales section

[Mike on a bike]

Mike I do not think please is going to do it my friend.

[Mike on a bike]

We have to figure out something Legend, I am hopeful others will come by and we can put something together that the powers that be can implement with out to much trouble.

[Mike on a bike]

Better!

[kevshed]

I'm a noob that did business with Mike... As he said, you have to start somewhere... So please give them a chance. Saying that, nobody likes the Wild West..noobs even more so as we are more likely to get scammed. Mike and I had a lot of dialog before we transacted, and I certainly had a confidence level based on that, as I'm sure did he. One thing you could do, is perhaps look for trading experience on other types of forums...as whilst new to this forum and watches as a whole, I think a lot of noobs may be frequent forum users on other topics... Example, I'm a AV guy, with 15+ years posts and trading history on AVforums, with significant trading history.... Maybe such things could be used as a basis to work out 'credible forum use'. scammers and sharks always exist, but I like this forum because it welcomes noobs to the hobby, this in turn has led to both private and dealer transactions, fuelling the Rep economy.....if you make the barriers to entry too high, membership will stunt and then people will moan that there is no activity... And the economy will slow for all involved. I'd like the forum to self police... Especially the sales threads.... There are a lot of experts here who can an do share opinions on sales threads.... More of it please! I've now bought 5 reps in 4 months.... If the forum had been too blocking, I'd have considered it to closed and likely not gotten involved. Keep on buying, I have the bug Kev

[cougar1]

I don't see the big issue tbh, some of the other forums were dealing with a fair few scammers of late, and they are moderated to the hilt. I guess I come from the take that only so much hand holding can be done, and I think this place is pretty well controlled anyway. Nobody wants to be scammed or see it happening, but I do think buying or selling these days has a certain higher degree of hazard than it used to anyway, so it is more of a case of buy the seller/vet the buyer type issue than ever before....this may be more a sign of the times and the massive amount of new recruits to the rep scene anyway.

[Mike on a bike]

Kev in the past you had to be a paying member not just log in and it is off to the races, we are looking for some way to vet as it is getting out of hand just about every day now another crazy sales try.

 

cougar1 We used to have at least some criteria. Yes there is always someone, but I beg to differ on the outbreak lately. And if you are correct sign of the times/ more people into reps then all the more do we need to get some criteria/barrier to entree.

[Mike on a bike]

cougar did you ever consider we might lose some guys who are already known and honest? It is happening trust me.

[kevshed]

To be fair, I was prepared to pay, but couldn't Are that's a reasonable step if it can be reintroduced..

[Mike on a bike]

Not at the time Kev that is the problem. Kev when I sold to you were out of the blue I have done this many times. Just a lucky trusting soul and never be burnt, but it is getting really to dicey for my tolerance level as well as others.

[kevshed]

Fair enough.... Policing always means work for someone, I guess that's the problem. I have been on forums that require an invitation from a senior member, kinda works but is a total ball ache...

[Mike on a bike]

Better an achy ball then a empty pocket.

[Legend]

THen how about People you better Fu)kin Re2d the God Dawm Rules and since im a gentleman ill add a please at the end.

yeah in this day and time, that seems much more suitable.

[cougar1]

Gettin the payment system up and running again smoothly should sort alot of things out. Maybe I wasn't paying too much attention and maybe there is an increase in scam attempts but it helps to keep a balance. The sales section here can look fairly sedate compared to RG/RWI that's why I was wondering what was happening. Definitely an increase in dodgy stuff even in those heavily moderated sales sections but still alot of sales traffic so bound to be more. Just keep your wits about you and as in every 2nd hand buying/selling situation if things don't feel right/too good to be true, don't bother, always another chance will come along. Works most of the time

[martijnp]

When I got to this forum you've should pay for the watches trading section. I didn't think I would buy a used watch. But when I could take a look I saw some great watches. I spoke with the seller and bought some, i'd must say I trusted the guy because of the positive feedback/good emails etc. I paid him and after a few days I got a very nice delivery. Everything went fine. If they close the dealer section again and it will be open for paying users, I will deff pay to get in that section (depends how much $€)

 

Maybe it's an idea to have like 200 posts and the section will be open. Scammers are not on this forum to post, only to scam right?

[sgtguk]

There's no right way to deal with the sales threads atm until Paypal or something very similar is up and running so that members can easily upgrade and pay their subs in, I'm damn sure that admin are trying their very best to sort this out, after all it's them that are losing money here not the membership.

 

I agree with any business that runs itself for it's honest clientele, you will always have an element of scammers etc but generally they don't last long here and they don't cause too much grief for the membership as a whole as they are outed fairly quickly, that said when a noob member gets fucked over it gets my gut going, older members should really know better than do a deal with someone who is offering something that is to good to be true     and I consider myself a noob too! 

 

As for ways to solve the dodgy sales etc, a couple that have been tossed around that I think made sense

 

For members that were Platinum/ViP before the PP issues came up and only yearly subs members, reinstate them as such until they can sort out Payza payment, give them 3 mth grace.

 

Minimum post counts, I think if we had a count of say 10 before a noob can even view the trade sections and 100 before they can sell anything, unless of course they Pay to upgrade via Payza.

 

These couple of measures I think would help, but in all honesty you still won't stop all the scammers, they are motivated by one thing and that is parting you from your hard earned for bugger all in return 

 

Tread your own path.............

 

Edit: To add that when I first joined I did so because I loved the place, great people abound with a wealth of knowledge of horology that is hard to beat, I was not in it to buy a watch from the forum but to gather the knowledge I needed to buy a decent rep watch, which incidently led me to buy a Gen instead (to many dodgy reps!) but my point is that my first purchase was from a Trusted Dealer....not from the boards   

[Mike on a bike]

Well some have weighed in not as many as I hoped by a long shot.   If this was about politics, guns or broads we would have a running argument 8 pages of posts and Ken would have to shut it down.   But to come up with a consensus on how to get past the difficulties we are having ,not so much.

[TeeJay]

Such a hard subject...  There can be new guys who are totally above board, equally, in the past, there have been times when respected members fleeced people with group buys and AR projects...    I don't think there's really any kind of measurement by which someone can be judged 'suitable for transactions', as there will always be exceptions to prove/disprove the rule, I guess all anyone can do, is to go with their instincts

[jtiis]

make a quiz over the Posting guidelines. Noobs have to take te quiz and answer with a 90% passing grade. THEN, their accounts will allow them to post.

[panerai153]

This has been pretty aggravating for me as well. I like the idea of folks having to pay to play. That's certainly not going to keep all the scammers out, because if someone wants to drop in here and fleece a few members to the tune of a thousand dollars or so, then he is going to figure buying a membership is sort of the cost of doing business. It will slow down some of the noobs who don't read, refuse to follow directions and generally bumble around creating confusion and friction. making the sales section paying also doesn't immunize us from the occasional old member who "Goes rogue' on us.It's happened before and I'm sure it will happen again. In fact those are the folks I worry the most about, because they have already established a pretty good reputation, and use that to take advantage of other members.All  it takes with the new guy is to use a little common sense. Like Mike said, do a lot of communicating. I wouldn't hesitate to ask him if he has any references on other forums. lots of guys come here from genuine forums, and a good reference on TZ or WUS is as good to me as one here. Again, if the deal looks to good to be true,you're probably going to regret it!! Use your gut feelings about deals, and as  I have said before, unless the watch you are buying is super rare, or one of a kind, you can afford to walk away from a deal because another one will come along. If it's super rare or one of a kind, and a noob with 2 posts is selling it, he better have some darn good creds from one of the other forums, or it's definitely NO SALE for me.

 

I believe that as others have said, it would be pretty easy to make a post threshhold of say 10 posts to look, 50 posts to buy and  100 posts to sell, at least until the payment problems are solved. Also having some sort of designation like 2012 VIP or 2012 Platinum added to guys who have recently had their paid membership expire would go a long way toward letting people who recently joined, see at a glance who has been around and is a paying member.    

[Mike on a bike]

Here here!

" I believe that as others have said, it would be pretty easy to make a
post threshhold of say 10 posts to look, 50 posts to buy and  100 posts
to sell, at least until the payment problems are solved. Also having
some sort of designation like 2012 VIP or 2012 Platinum added to guys
who have recently had their paid membership expire would go a long way
toward letting people who recently joined, see at a glance who has been
around and is a paying member. " 

 

 Good criteria (idea) , that is why I put up this thread!

[Maven]

The only advise I could offer is a middlemen required service for people without sales reps. When I first joined I made sure I read the rules learned some things and did my first purchase very slowly. I told myself I wouldn't do the deal with anyone under 5 positive and although I passed on some I stuck to it and had ample communication from the get go. The real issue lies in when and if I do a sale. Although I have 12 years off 100% on eBay there's no set equation to carry that over. With that said I'm comfortable in my ability to communicate with others and am willing to do whatever I can that is reasonable to make people comfortable. So outside a middlemen service offered simply by 1/2 outstanding vets you just have to be smart do your research and realize you have a lot of options to minimize the risk. If there new don't WU don't PayPal gift, use ur credit card through PayPal to ensure two lines of defense don't buy from someone who rubs you the wrong way or simply lacks what you could consider educated . Last but not least remember that what goes around comes around, typically much worse.

[Mike on a bike]

Maven not worried about thoughtful guys like you and I agree communication is key. I have dealt with some long time guys here short and to the point , dismissive. OK, busy well ain't we all. You want to be a member take minute or two and talk , better outcomes all around!

[panerai153]

I have been on quite a few forums where you don't have access (to sell) until you get the requisite number of posts.

Another possibility, is to use a similar setup like the Vintage Rolex Market. The Vintage Rolex Forum requires you to have a number of contributory posts before you are considered a VRF Member. Until you are a member, your sales posts are moderated, and they do not go up until they are passed by one of the mods. If anything is dodgy, or incomplete, like a return policy, the post isn't allowed until it's fixed.If not they just nuke it!! 

 

Not sure how this would work, but it is very useful. maybe not as a requirement, but "strongly suggested" If you need more communication, PM or email the seller and ask for his phone number, or his skype handle. Cal him up and talk about the watch.shipping, payment,return policy, expectations of each other etc. I'm pretty old school, i would rather talk to someone about something rather than sit at my computer and hammer out email after email. Lots of timexs over the phone, folks are a little more "Real" and sometimes a little easier to read.I prettuy much will not buy a higher end watch from a unknown seller without talking about the deal.