TC 2824 Review - An ETA 2824-2 Super Clone

[tc670207]

TC 2824 vs ETA 2824-2

 

The companies made this movement will announce its proper designation in a few months so let's just call this "TC 2824" for now.

 

Not long after I picked up this hobby, I realized I had to find an alternative. I've looked into the possibility of Japanese movements. Didn't go that route because Seiko/Miyota movements are damn hard to micro adjust to all 5 or 6 positions. I'm not saying the Japanese movements are inferior or of less quality built. I'm just saying they are less refined.

 

I had to turn to "Clones", whether a Swiss clone or a Chinese clone as long as they do the job, I'll take 'em. Sellita didn't want my business because my order quantity was too small for them.

 

The Chinese would take my business but all three major Chinese movement makers frown upon my quality requirements. I asked nothing more than a "standard grade" of ETA 2824-2. That is an average rate of (within) +/-12 seconds/day, with a maximum deviation of 30 seconds. Plus I want #4 Canon Pinion.

 

I had no luck with the Chinese. They either wouldn't guarantee quality or they just won't make an ETA 2824-2 clone in #4 canon pinion. The standard #2 canon pinion is what they would supply.

 

Why #4 canon pinion is so important to me? Because it eliminates the factor other reps looks FAKE and UGLY!

 

FAIL:

 

TC 2824 #4 CANON PINION GEN FEATURE:

 

This comes to fruition after a very long 11 months of wait. TC 2824 with #4 Canon Pinion:

 

Gen ETA 2824-2 with #4 Canon Pinion:

 

Let's see how well "TC 2824" movement performs. Thanks to Xperia78 for videos and commentaries.

 

 

 

Some significant features of TC 2824 I want to highlight:

 

• Smooth line - that means very high quality hairspring and balance wheel.

• deviation is minimal, less than 5 seconds. 

• steady performance in all 5 or 6 positions.

• These features that TC 2824 displays prove it a high quality movement. It easily out performs some lower grade ETA blank movements.

 

 

Now you've seen how well TC 2824 performs, I want to take you into a more in depth view of the movement. Before we do, I want to refer a great article on WUS. It's an 9 pages long discussion and tear down of ETA 2824-2 and the Chinese clones:

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/how-do-seagull-hangzhou-compare-eta-depth-look-216945.html

 

 

I want to review TC 2824-2 in the same depth so let's tear down a TC 2824 and make a comparison with an ETA 2824-2.

 

First thing that is visually different, the shock resistant system - This is Etachoc or so called Novodiac shock system from ETA.

 

This is TCBLOC.

 

It actually has a term: "the simple cushion" according to the maker. It is a clone of Etachoc/Novodiac shock system with a simpler design. It offers the same performance, but the cost of making it is significantly lower than its ETA counterparts. The simple cushion is cheap and readily available. It is seen on almost all ETA clones.

 

TCBLOC is also very easy to replace with a "Incabloc" shock absorb if you know how to do it.

 

 

Let's put TC 2824 to a real life drop test.

 

 

You should prevent your watch from dropping no matter what. When a mechanical movement encountered too much shock it will break just like everything else. I did the real life test for you so you need not.  Neither the company behind TC 2824 or I will provide free service if the movement malfunctions due to drop. 

 

TC 2824 consists of 26 jewels while ETA 2824-2 is made of 25 jewels. The Chinese Seagull ST2130 has 28 jewels. The Hangzhou 6300 has 25 Jewels. The Swiss Sellita SW200 also has 26 jewels.

 

The barrel bridge side by side. This is where TC 2824 has one extra jewel to ETA 2824-2.

 

Sellita SW200 Barrel Bridge:

http://zairyoya.kuron.jp/tokeibuhin/sellita_sw_200_105_barrel_bridge.

 

Now, I'm not saying the company behind TC 2824 supplies Sellita blanks for SW200. I am not saying anything at all.

 

These are Nivarox balance spring and Glucydur balance wheel. You haven't hear me say how I like TC 2824 yet. I don't like it, I LOVE IT! See how it is chamfered where the bridge is closest to the balance wheel? (Left) It reduces the chance balance wheel touches the bridge when the whole movement is in shock. You don't see that in a standard ETA 2824-2. The company behind TC 2824 has put a lot of thoughts in micro adjusting the design of this movement. I'll say it again, I LOVE TC 2824.

 

 

This is TC 2824 performance spec sheet vs ETA 2824-2 Standard grade:

 

With all the findings, I categorize TC 2824 a "super clone" and the "answer" for independent watchmakers.

 

 

Thanks for reading.

 

TC

Edited February 7, 2013 by tc670207

[kbh]

Wow great write up can't wait to get my hands on one and rip it apart. The Chinese will surpass the swiss pretty soon with there movts.

Not in our  lifetime.

[gmtlover]

Great one TC.. Now the costs of this beauty..

[Beone21]

another great write up!

[janeto72]

I think they will, or Atleast come very very close. I read in one of the watch mags they had an interview with one of the Chinese factories (dont remeber which) and they are putting tons of money in Research and development and trying to reach the quality to compete with swiss products. If you think about it etas patents have been open for about 1.5-2 yrs and look what they came out with. I think its pretty good, but again still no swiss, they still need to get the quality right.

you guys have no idea.....what really goes on in those Chinese factories.....the quality of product that is coming now and is to come will put a lot of the SWISS factories to shame....for 1/3 the cost/price at the comsumer leavel

[Rolexman]

First of all thanks for the write up and taking the time to do this. Very cool!

I do have some questions/ observations. Why brand this as 'TC2824'? I have some clones laying in my parts bin that are exactly the same as yours and they are dating back several months (no Hangzhou or Seagull).

Thereby you say at the end of your movie that the TC2824 out performs the ETA. In what way? Both lines are equally straigh and the rate deviation on both is minimal. The ETA is running at almost 320 amp and the TC only at max 270 amp. Like most clones it is equipped with a poor main spring not able to generate enough torque.

Also the chamfered balance bridge does nothing for shocks because before the balance wheel will touch the bridge (it actually is called a c0ck) sideways the balance staff will break.....

It is a nice review but totally biased off course.

[tc670207]

I'm biased because TC 2824 is American. The company behind it will announce its proper designation in a few months.

[Ephry73]

I cannot thank you enough. This is the beginning for sure. Soon I bet more good quality parts will be available with TC performing the research

[kbh]

I think they will, or Atleast come very very close. I read in one of the watch mags they had an interview with one of the Chinese factories (dont remeber which) and they are putting tons of money in Research and development and trying to reach the quality to compete with swiss products. If you think about it etas patents have been open for about 1.5-2 yrs and look what they came out with. I think its pretty good, but again still no swiss, they still need to get the quality right.

 

You're assuming that the Swiss watch makers have been standing still for the last twenty years since bringing out the 28xx series and will be standing still for the next 20. In the next 5 years the Chinese factories may have perfected the 28xx clones to the same level as the Swiss are now.

[janeto72]

oh boy.....we should keep it all stateside and in North America......

[rek001]

This is interesting, so this movement was fabricated here in the States?

[JoeyB]

Will GMT option be available? Any idea for a ballpark price? 

[mch2112]

Will GMT option be available? Any idea for a ballpark price?

TC's blog says $130, but doesn't mention GMT at all.

[buffedupboy]

I think a comparison should be made between this "TC2824" to say a Seagull ST2130 AA grade. If this movement is going to be 130USD, I'm not sure it's justified.

[seafoam]

The seagull st2100 cost around $100. $130 is very acceptable!

[panerai153]

I think a comparison should be made between this "TC2824" to say a Seagull ST2130 AA grade. If this movement is going to be 130USD, I'm not sure it's justified.

 

Well, here's the deal. In a very short span of time, new ETA movements are not going to be available. the only source will be out of donor watches, sort of like the Chinese rep makers are doing to get 2846 movements, cracking open old watches and shelling out the movements. So if new ETA movements are not available, it would be nice to have a source of ETA quality movements.  

I think a comparison should be made between this "TC2824" to say a Seagull ST2130 AA grade. If this movement is going to be 130USD, I'm not sure it's justified.

 

AFA the Swiss improving and refining movements, they have been doing that for years, and I'm sure will continue to do so.Unfortunately this is a moot point, if the movements are not available, it doesn't matter how good they are to other watchmakers if they can't use them in their watches.

[kbh]

 

 

Well, here's the deal. In a very short span of time, new ETA movements are not going to be available. the only source will be out of
donor watches, sort of like the Chinese rep makers are doing to get 2846 movements, cracking open old watches and shelling out the movements. So
if new ETA movements are not available, it would be nice to have a source of ETA quality movements.

 

I've been hearing that for the last 5 years and they are stilll readily available. I'll believe that when it actaully happens.

 

No offense to TC but $130 for a Asian clone movement isn't going to be  the beginning of a new ball game in the watch industry.

[Jkay]

 

No offense to TC but $130 for a Asian clone movement isn't going to be  the beginning of a new ball game in the watch industry.

 

If that price was true, why would he claim 1/3 cost to the consumer, in this review?

[kbh]

TC's blog says $130, but doesn't mention GMT at all.

 

 

I have no idea what the price is......... Just from previous quote.

Edited February 9, 2013 by kbh

[buffedupboy]

The seagull st2100 cost around $100. $130 is very acceptable!

Um..... if the ST2100 cost that much, there would be alot of watch brands out of business....... Damn, I should be selling movements and make a killing!! But yes, if these TC2824s are USD130, that's more expensive than a Sellita SW200 as well. Will still be interesting when it was released, but frankly there isn't anything on there that I can see that makes it any better than a ST2100, that's leaving aside the likeness to the ETA2824.

[seafoam]

every st2100 on the bay sells for around $100. If you've seen a sellita for less than$130, please let me know your source brutha

[buffedupboy]

every st2100 on the bay sells for around $100. If you've seen a sellita for less than$130, please let me know your source brutha

I think we are confusing prices here.... I assume that TC's 130USD is the price he gets the movements direct from the manufacturer? In which case, an ST2100 goes for around 45USD and a Sellita SW200 go for around USD120. Naturally if you are buying after market, it's a whole different ballgame.

[highoeyazmuhudee]

good job

[panerai153]

 

 

I've been hearing that for the last 5 years and they are stilll readily available. I'll believe that when it actaully happens.

 

No offense to TC but $130 for a Asian clone movement isn't going to be  the beginning of a new ball game in the watch industry.

 

 

I've been hearing the same thing, but from the recent readiingI have done, it looks like it is going to come to pass.Here is a link from the Promethus Wqatch company, which I am not that familiar with, but they do have a forum on WUS. http://www.prometheuswatch.com/how-etas-decision-to-stop-supplying-movements-affects-prometheus-watch-company-and-watch-industry/

 

Here are a couple of exerpts from that article:

 

It has been announced for some time that ETA would stop supplying movements to third parties but consequences of that decision haven’t had been experienced till now.

As a result of ETA’s decision supply of their movements has become scarce and prices have had increased considerably in market.

Many movement brokers had got confirmations of supply from ETA that simply got cancelled without notice and as a result prices in 2012 for ETA movements have increased over 70% in markets managed by movement brokers.

 

From our contacts in industry we got information that in 2013 situation will deteriorate further and expectations are that ETA may completely stop supply of movements to third parties.

 

For 2012 we were able to secure ETA movements to be used in our limited editions already released and to be released this year.

However usage of ETA movements will become more and more scarce and we find it hard to release new watch models featuring ETA movements. This is true for us and for any company not part of Swatch Group.

 

And this is Really Interesting:

 

We think that using ETA clone movements can be a plus. This enables usage of existing tooling for watch cases and hands and at same time peace of mind for our customers as will always be easy to find replacement parts for the movements or service those as majority of clone movements have interchangeable parts with the ETA counterpart.

Although a few years ago questions would arise when using China Made movements such issues no longer exist in our opinion. We have been investigating this movements since 2008 as can be seen in this link at watchuseek watch forum where a comparison between the ETA 2824-2, Seagull ST2130 and Hangzhou 6300 has been made.

Quality of Seagull and Hangzhou movements has improved in the last four years and quality keeps increasing with time. In terms of overall quality we place Hangzhou on pair with Seagull though for many Hangzhou is less known, this due to fact that Hangzhou only produces mechanical movements not full watches.

Same for Shanghai with its 3LZF2 movement that has proved with time to be a reliable alternative to the Valjoux 7750 movement with some minor differences in terms of construction and dimensions.

We embrace this changes in the watch world with an open mind and expect that with this changes watch collectors will appreciate increase of diversity and innovations to come.

[seafoam]

I think we are confusing prices here.... I assume that TC's 130USD is the price he gets the movements direct from the manufacturer? In which case, an ST2100 goes for around 45USD and a Sellita SW200 go for around USD120. Naturally if you are buying after market, it's a whole different ballgame.

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.