monga Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Ok, so I've been thinking, and this might be a really crazy question, but given the current gen parts market here in the US especially. Are some watches worth more than the sum of their parts? Lets say you pick up a nice 16610 D series, they run around $4500-$5500. Ok so lets say you get a good deal and pay $4900. You could probably get like $1800 for the bracelet, $200 for the bezel insert, $250 for the bezel, $200 for the hands, $350 maybe for the dial $75-$125 for the crystal. $2k for the movement and $1k for the case. That's $5800-$5925 Am I off on these numbers? It would be a shame to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillycheez Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Ok, so I've been thinking, and this might be a really crazy question, but given the current gen parts market here in the US especially. Are some watches worth more than the sum of their parts? Lets say you pick up a nice 16610 D series, they run around $4500-$5500. Ok so lets say you get a good deal and pay $4900. You could probably get like $1800 for the bracelet, $200 for the bezel insert, $250 for the bezel, $200 for the hands, $350 maybe for the dial $75-$125 for the crystal. $2k for the movement and $1k for the case. That's $5800-$5925 Am I off on these numbers? It would be a shame to do. You're pretty off on those numbers... More like $800 for the bracelet (and that's with no stretch). $250 for the bezel is about right. $125 for the insert. $300 for the dial. $125 for the crystal. The case I dunno but probably at least $1,200 (I would assume more considering a phong is $1k). Serviced movement is probably $1,400.. Maybe more. Really depends on the condition of everything. In the end... Usually the sum of the parts adds up to what it's really worth. Edited February 22, 2013 by phillycheez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monga Posted February 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Only $800 for the bracelet? No way, i just saw a clasp sell for $200. Where can I find one for that. I've been looking! That's actually what started me thinking about this. That and some of the threads about people building frankens and spending near close to the price of a good used gen. But of course if you build yourself a really nice franken you get the satisfaction of doing that, rather than just plunking your cash down and walking away with a watch. Edited February 22, 2013 by monga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillycheez Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Only $800 for the bracelet? Where can I find one for that. I've been looking! That's actually what started me thinking about this. That and some of the threads about people building frankens and spending near close to the price of a good used gen. But of course if you build yourself a really nice franken you get the satisfaction of doing that, rather than just plunking your cash down and walking away with a watch. I've bought and sold a few 93150 bracelets. Only ones I've ever seen sell for $1k are BNIB from a reputable dealer on TRF who imo were selling at rip off prices. Garbage stretched bracelets sell for as low as $400... Really depends on the condition as they vary. Getting a bracelet from RSC is possibly the cheapest option. I think it's only $500 from them. I can't remember but it's a steal of a deal if you know someone with a Rolex that can get it from them. Edited February 22, 2013 by phillycheez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flex Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 you always make more $ in the vintage parts market. doubt you will make as much with their modern counterparts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monga Posted February 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Wow, so maybe I should just buy a gen, use it to get the bracelet, then sell the gen. How do you convince an Rsc to sell you a new bracelet without trading yours in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monga Posted February 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) you always make more $ in the vintage parts market. doubt you will make as much with their modern counterparts. I figured that too, I just picked the 16610 because its a popular model, both in the gen and rep world. Edited February 22, 2013 by monga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monga Posted February 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Also in my example D-series 16610 doesn't it have SEL 93250 bracelet? I'm not trying to get into semantics. But it just seems to be getting out of control the price of the gen parts on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillycheez Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Also in my example D-series 16610 doesn't it have SEL 93250 bracelet? I'm not trying to get into semantics. But it just seems to be getting out of control the price of the gen parts on the market. Ah. My bad, you are right. A new 93250 is about $1,200. Used will range between $800-1k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiesn089 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 You can buy modern bracelets from every AD, prices have skyrocketed in recent years though (incl. one 100 percent price increase in 2010 or 2011). $1200 for a new one sealed sounds about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monga Posted February 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Ok, so to recap: Bracelet $1k Bezel $250 Insert $125 Crystal $125 Dial $300 Hands $200 Case $1200 Movement $1500 Forgot to add box $200 Total $4900 Remember my example is a very good condition d series ( or so) purchased for around $4800 (with box and papers) So I guess I'm wrong it is worth about the cost of its parts....maybe I picked the wrong model for my example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 I think to make it work you'd have to buy one at a steep discount. Either because you're buying privately from someone who doesn't know the used market, or because a relatively inexpensive part needs to be replaced/repaired. Also, forget about the box/papers. If you are parting it out, there's really no need. People will charge a premium for them, and that's not what you are looking for to do what you are proposing. Most people won't go through the hassle to repair and you can sometimes pick up a deal on one with a bad bezel insert or dial, or has a nasty scratch someplace that is easily fixed (or replaced). Buy right and you could probably make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 "you always make more $ in the vintage parts market. doubt you will make as much with their modern counterparts." True in my experience. Modern watch guys do not have 'fire in the belly' compared to vintage watch guys. Modern watches are basically 'status jewelry' while a vintage 5513/1680/1665/1655 is a 'badge of honor'...a hard to find/expensive 'insider' item. Many sapphire watch owners have never even seen an actual 5513/1680/1665/1655. Many below average to rough 1520/1570/75 powered AK/OPD/DJ etc are bought today for parts and the movement often ends up in a Frankenstein of some sort. A friend went to the watch shows at Daytona a couple weeks ago and he saw a few 'under the table' Frankenstein 5513/1680 and one 1655 by asking sellers about them. There are quite a few Frankenstein 5513/1680 around but genuine rolex 1575GMT powered Frankenstein 1655 are few and far between because GMT parts are near impossible to get...you usually end up parting out a 1675 to make one now. There were a lot of them 15 or 20 years ago made from 1675 with 1655 dial/bezel/hands etc but they were easy to spot because they always had 6mm crowns. The one 1655 he looked at was $4500 and all the 5513/1680 Frankensteins were over $2000. My guess is these watches are intended to be sold to 'insiders' inside the marts and then be resold to 'outsiders' as genuine outside of the marts (at gun shows, car shows, unregulated jewelry/watch shows etc). After they pass through a couple owners the 'history' is long forgotten. He said they appeared to have been 'made to sell', the 1655 being the best of the lot. 'Made to sell' = not up to RWG standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 My question is unless you were "cannabalizing" and older DJ for the movement, why would you part out a usable popular model? in my opinion, the whole is worth more than the sum of it's parts. If you have a genuine 16610, and you want or need a new insert, you can take it to a local Rolex AD and they will replace your old one (They are probably going to keep the old one), same with bracelets, crowns/tubes, etc. If you want it serviced , any Rolex trained watchmaker will work on it, and replace parts with genuine Rolex parts. Once you break it up, from Rolex SA's point of view, it's no longer a Rolex.Dealers won't replace parts, work on it, and don't think about having a RSC look at it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillycheez Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 My question is unless you were "cannabalizing" and older DJ for the movement, why would you part out a usable popular model? in my opinion, the whole is worth more than the sum of it's parts. If you have a genuine 16610, and you want or need a new insert, you can take it to a local Rolex AD and they will replace your old one (They are probably going to keep the old one), same with bracelets, crowns/tubes, etc. If you want it serviced , any Rolex trained watchmaker will work on it, and replace parts with genuine Rolex parts. Once you break it up, from Rolex SA's point of view, it's no longer a Rolex.Dealers won't replace parts, work on it, and don't think about having a RSC look at it!! Agreed. I don't see the benefit either. The great thing about Subs is they keep their value. It's not likely you will lose money if you bought it at a fair price. A gen is a gen. Why devalue it? Taking those parts and making a cheaper franken... Well, for anyone who has gone down the franken route know... When it comes to time to sell, it's a guarantee big loss. Just ain't worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red series 3 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 If I wanted a bracelet I would walk in with a gen watch on a $5 rubber strap, and tell them the bracelet broke. I'm sure they would sell to you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 If I wanted a bracelet I would walk in with a gen watch on a $5 rubber strap, and tell them the bracelet broke. I'm sure they would sell to you For sure if all I wanted was bracelet, That's what I would do, not split up the watch. If you wanted a genuine bracelet for a rep, there are always plenty for sale on the VRF and Ebay, but genuine good ones aren't cheap!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 "...why would you part out a usable popular model? in my opinion, the whole is worth more than the sum of it's parts." The last slow set DJ I bought was $700. After adding a good genuine bracelet, crystal, case tube, crown, c/o, mainspring, gaskets, springbars etc I would have $1200 or $1300 in the watch and it might sell for $1500 on a good day = a lot of work for $200 or $300. If I take the same watch and stick the movement in a $120 DW case with a $140 Yuki dial and a TC crown set plus a Clark bezel assembly/crystal and a $90 replica bracelet, I will have about $1200 in a watch that will sell for $2000 with 'full disclosure'...and still have the DJ case and dial left to sell = about $1000 profit. This would be a 'low buck' example because I got a decent deal on the DJ and used a DW case, Yuki dial etc and can do it all myself. If you paid $700 for the DJ timehead but had to pay someone to do the c/o etc plus use a Yuki or Phong case, genuine bracelet etc the cost could easily double. I am not making watches to sell, just showing how genuine movements from valuable watches get swapped into Frankensteins. Btw...the DJ is still in one piece and will stay that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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