Merlinau Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Hi there I'm a newby, so apologise if I don't follow all the strict conventions of your forum. However I'm wondering if I could get some advice, comment, or assistance from forum members with a problem I have. I purchased a Rolex Submariner from Trusty Time Watches a while ago. QC pix of the watch prior to dispatch etc. were provided. I paid extra to have a Swiss movement . It seems a beautiful replica as far as the case and bracelet are concerned. However, time keeping was soon an issue. Initially it was gaining about 15 second a day, and then losing about the same. I returned it under ? warranty. After quite some delay it was returned supposedly 'fixed'. Time keeping was the same; initially fast then slow and finally it stopped. It became clear that the automatic winding mechanism was not working and the time keeping variation probably associated with inconsistent spring tension on the escapement. I don't think that this should be present in a "Swiss" movement should it? Trusty Time have said to return it AGAIN for repair, but I think replacement is in order. What do members think? YES I'm a newby. YES I'm probably too trusting. YES I've probably gone about this purchase in the wrong way, but I thought Trusty Time was one of your 'approved' dealers. More importantly, what should I do now. The case and bracelet are great, but a lovely looking watch isn't much good without decent and reliable time keeping is it? Many thanks for your assistance Merlinau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneed12 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 It seems a beautiful replica as far as the case and bracelet are concerned. However, time keeping was soon an issue. Initially it was gaining about 15 second a day, and then losing about the same. I returned it under ? warranty 15 seconds per day is pretty damn impressive for a non-COSC watch movement. The fact that you returned it for 15 sec/day boggles my mind. I'm shocked that the dealer accepted the return to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 15 seconds a day. You expectations are unrealistic, yes you are a noob. Wear in good health and learn to live with it,end of story . Andrew at TT has the patience of a saint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Or just send to MD2020 above to get serviced! :bangin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinau Posted May 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Please understand that TT (on their web site) specify time keeping warranties of +/- 10 secs per day for Swiss movement watches. Hence my (quite reasonably I feel) concern about time keeping outside their specified range. If this is what TT specify, is it unreasonable to hold them to their claim? Secondly, it is evident that the automatic wind mechanism is not working (why else would the watch stop without being manually rewound?) Yes I'm a newby, but please don't 'monster' me for not having the range of knowledge or experience that other members may have. I'm asking questions and seeking advice. I'm not trying to 'bad mouth' anyone and definitely not just wingeing for the sake of it. Merlinau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyr Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 There are threads available and tutorials dealing with minor time regulation issues. If you own a rep you should familiarize yourself with how to do small timing changes. The simple turn of a screw may have saved you the hassle and expense of a return.As for the self winding issue, you may not have had enough movement throughout the day to wind the watch and have any power reserve. Better luck in the future. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 It sounds like the movement requires a proper overhaul & regulation. Keep in mind that, contrary to the hyperbole offered by rep sellers, rep watches generally come with used &/or unserviced movements - regardless of where it came from. That said, if the watch runs outside the limits indicated on TT's website, I would discuss this with Andrew (TT) & ask him to time the watch prior to its return to you. Keep in mind that a watch set to run accurately on a timer is not likely to run as well on your wrist going through your normal routines. Bottom line is if you want accuracy, find a local watchmaker & spend the money to have the movement professionally overhauled (disassembled, cleaned, oiled & regulated). If you want to get your moneys' worth, return the watch to TT & have them either fix or replace it (with the understanding that, even if it runs well, you are still likely to receive a used/unserviced movement). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geof3 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Ah, my first real post! :-) ETA standard grade movements are considered good, running 20 or so seconds a day. As mentioned, an automatic movement requires a bit of "runtime" to settle in to its own. Think of it like a new motor for a car. Everything in the movement has to mate with itself. Depending on how the watch is worn this can take a bit of time. As mentioned, 15 seconds is pretty good, regardless what the website says. None of the movements, eta or not, in reps are of high standards. At best these movements are standard grade, regulated to two positions. Decent builds, decent parts. When serviced, should last a long time. But, a little "off" in terms of sheer accuracy. Adjusting them is relatively easy on your own with a few simple tools, but if the movement is "bad" or has other issues, then it's a waste of time and the movement needs to be evaluated by a watchmaker. With regard to the winding mechanism, you should be able to feel the rotor move in the watch when moving it around, possibly even hear it. If you have not fully wound the watch since you've had it, it would be difficult for the watch to wind itself fully from simple daily wear, unless you are very active. As mentioned, wind the watch 25 or 30 times and give it a good, full reserve, then see what happens. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Is your movement confirmed Swiss ETA? (yes, I know, can of worms, but after reading recently posted threads next door, I wanted to check). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlinau Posted May 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Is your movement confirmed Swiss ETA? (yes, I know, can of worms, but after reading recently posted threads next door, I wanted to check). Are yes, indeed; a very good question!!! I just don't know and I don't know how I can find out. I have no watchmaking experience (obviously) and no tools with which to do any adjusting; even getting the back off. I have to say in all fairness that Andrew at TT is being very responsive to my problems and has agreed to take it back and have it resolved by the factory (whatever that means). In response to others: YES I have wound it fully manually (30 turns) and it just stopped after about 24 hours. First it was running fast, then even, and finally slow (before finally stopping) What is 'active'? I don't use a sledgehammer all day, but I move about constantly (at least my hand and arm do) and I go to the Gym most days for an hour. If it can't keep self wound in these circumstances then there must be a problem. My understanding is the self-wind rotor is activated by even a small deviation from exact horizontal (like a ball bearing on a plate). Certainly I've never had problems with Seiko auto watches I had in the past, and I had one of the first sold in the UK (in the 1960's when they sold them way cheaper than any Swiss watch, and finally wrecked the Swiss watch industry) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Are yes, indeed; a very good question!!! I just don't know and I don't know how I can find out. I have no watchmaking experience (obviously) and no tools with which to do any adjusting; even getting the back off. Probably it's a BP refurbished ETA. Post here some (good!) picture of the watch movement (to open the back case simply made a ball of duct tape with the sticky part outside, press it on the backside and keeping it pressed rotate counterclockwise) with the counterweight in different position. Anyway make it serviced, in both case, if it's an ETA or an ETA asian clone (a2824 or 2836) the gen eta parts will fit and it will be fixed. By good picture I mean at least something like this (maybe with a better focus): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Thanks for spamming Alendera and bringing back to life a thread that's over a year old ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Thanks for spamming Alendera and bringing back to life a thread that's over a year old ... OOOPssss... Didn't see the date and the thread resumer..., Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 OOOPssss... Didn't see the date and the thread resumer..., Sorry. That wasn't directed at you ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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