Project Franken

[clem2192]

Hi Guys,

 

Relatively new to the forum and the world of replica watches. I have recently purchased a 16610 sub from Joshua (Perfect Clones) which is on its way to me as we speak.

 

I have been researching and following other posts on the forum and am impressed with the amount of information available and the friendliness of the members.

 

I would like to start a Franken Sub project, to 1) get me closer to the perfect replica and 2) enjoy the thrill of the search and building my own spec sub but I have a few questions, the main I guess being whether it would be possible for a newcomer to achieve this (I have played about with watches in the past and have the basic tools however a horologist or watch maker I am not!!

 

Then there is the choice of base to start from, I think from reading up that starting with a holed case 16800 1:1 spec case is my best option as it gives me more flexability on movements etc.

 

Where is the best place to source a 16800 case ?? (Yuki / TC or is there anywhere else ??)

 

Obviously I am not setting a time frame for this build as to gather all the parts is going to take time and funds which means it would be easier if I picked bits up here and there when available or funds allowed.

 

Would the following spec be a good start;

 

16800 spec case (Yuki / TC) ??

3035 or Yuki 3135 clone movement

Gen Dial

Gen Crystal

Gen Bezel Insert

Gen Stem & Crown

Rep hands (where is the best place to source these ??)

TC V3 93250 bracelet (if available)

 

What are your thoughts guys ?? Does this sound any good ??

 

Any help would be much appreciated

 

Cheers

Ryan

[dutchguy2]

Hi Ryan, that is quite a build you are planning. But I think that a 16800 Franken is relatively easy to make. Gathering these gen parts is very well possible if you look at the right places.

First I would skip the clone movement and opt for a 2824 movement. TC sells these. You can order the correct hands from him aswell. A good 16800 case can be bought for small money from (pm me for details). A clark crystal with gasket is good enough. The bracelet i would go for, for starters, TC V2 clasp with V3 links. You can always go for gen in the future. Gen Insert, dial are a must. You can either choose for a TC crown or a gen crown.

Good luck.

[dutchguy2]

But be aware that this will cost at least 700 USD but probably more!

[clem2192]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the reply, I am aware that I may be undertaking quite an in depth project but its something that I will enjoy doing. I am planning to use this forum and maybe (TRF) to gather the parts required but any help from other members with recommendations is always nice, especially if they have undertaken a similar project before.

 

Cheers

Ryan

[alligoat]

Ryan, you're kind of mixed up between a 16800 and a 16610. But the parts for a 16610 are more readily available- there is no rep 3035 movement at this point. You could use a TC case and drill the lugholes  and put a gen 3035 in it or an eta. Or use a Sean case and drill the lugholes again and put a 3135 yuki in it and make an early 16610 w/ the tritium dial.

A TC bracelet only goes with a late model 16610. 16800s and early 16610s (til 2000 or so) take a 93150 with either 593 ends (16800) or 501B ends (16610).

If you're looking for rep hands to fit an eta or 3135, look at Clark's Watch supply- nostalgia_2000 on the bay.

 

This is a 16800 franken- relumed matte dial, ST3035 case, gen insert, Clark's crystal, gen crown and tube and a 93150 with 593 ends. Movement is a 2834-2

[automatico]

"First I would skip the clone movement and opt for a 2824 movement."

 

+1

[Ephry73]

The y3135 once serviced is excellent. Expect no less than $430 once purchased and serviced. The trick is knowing where to spend the money. With the Y3135 you can use the gen parts and leave them be. Thus, keeping their value as you don't have to cut dial feet etc...

 

My serviced y3135 has been running strong at +/1 4-6 seconds a day. The one for Duke's 16660 build about the same.

 

E

TC franken on the right using a bigcrown double AR crystal and the ST 3135 franken of mine on the left.

[clem2192]

Thanks for all your help guys, still some more research needed I think.

Would I be better off using a TC LV Sub Type II as a base model for a Franken build and just add gen insert, dial, crown & crystal to this??

I know it would mean a higher initial outlay but would mean I have a working watch (minus bezel insert)

Not sure I'd be technically up to a build from scratch (already confusing models! DOH!)

Thanks Again

Ryan

[Ephry73]

Ryan,

 

I think what you need to figure out first is what model Submariner you want. Once you have that knowledge, then you can source cases/parts to build said model. a 16800 case is slimmer and has a shallower rehaut than that of a 16610 case. An older 16610 will have different bracelet, crown and crystal, as well as bezel insert combination, than say a more modern 16610(LV for example) where the case will have no lugholes, no engraving in the rehaut and different crown setup. LEC crystal versus plain crystal, AR cyclops, versus non, flat 4 versus pointy 4 on the insert, etc.... This is of course without tackling the daunting list of dials you can use, Maxi, vs non-maxi, Swiss T <25, vs T Swiss T, etc...

 

Bracelet choices also vary, including the different case profiles and end link combinations.

 

I prefer the fit of the 16800, as it wears very comfortably, but the 16610 is my almost daily beater.

[panerai153]

I agree with ephry, you need to first decide what you want to build, and then start looking for parts. When you take the "Shotgun' approach, you are going to end up with a bushel of parts, only to discover later that half of them won't work, and you still need more. So my advice is plan your build, build your plan.( This gained form several very painful and expensive projects that got out of control because of lack of planning!!)

[clem2192]

Thanks guys, been researching further and I am keen on the 16610LV model (without the engraving on the rehaut).

 

I am tempted with the TC LV Sub Type II, this look as though it will give me a great basis on which to start a top franken and all I will need for now is a bezel insert to make it wearable.

 

I can then add the genuine crystal, dial, crown at a later date, as well as giving me the option to add a genuine movement (should I ever find one), bracelets etc. further down the line if I wish to

 

Does this sound like a more sensible approach?

[Ephry73]

It does, but always keep in mind the ultimate goal. Imagine the watch you want, collect pictures and images of that particular build and aim for it. Sometimes you will find really good prices on gen parts that ultimately you won't need(like me for example)  If you want a pristine looking watch, sort of like a safe queen, then new, or almost new parts are what you need. The TC parts are good, very good even. If you buy the case kit from TC, crown, tube and all, plus his 93250 bracelet(I suggest the V2/V3 combo pack) then all you need is a gen dial, hands, movement and insert for your franken. If you don't want to go with the gen movement and dial/hands, then buy the TC ETA dial and hands and source a serviced gen ETA and gen insert. TCs 2824 ETA already has the tall cannon stack, which makes the watch look tons more legit. More importantly, set a budget for yourself. An honest one, then add 60% to that and you will have spending money. Patience is key when trying to save cash. 

 

 

Good luck and ask away brother. 

 

 

E

[clem2192]

Thanks again.

Think I'm definitely going with TC as my basis, now to decide whether I want just the case kit, crown, tube etc, V3/V4 bracelet & ETA movement. Then source a gen dial, hands, crystal & bezel insert or whether I purchase a TC Sub Type II and then swap bits as and when, I'm guessing there wouldn't be much difference between the two options??

R

[clem2192]

Ok so I have decided that I will try to source the parts for my franken build separately as I do not have the funds for a TC Sub Type II as a basis.

 

I want to use a Swiss ETA 2824-2 movement, but which is the best case to use ?? Are there any of the TDs case sets that will house a 2824-2 movement ?? I know TC offer a movement holder for the 2824 movement for use with his cases, will I need something similar with the BK case??

 

Are there any other case options available to me, I am looking for one that will be capable of taking genuine parts (dial / crystal / bezel / tube / crown) without the need for modification.

 

Also if anyone has a case they may be willing to sell that will be up to the job please drop me a message.

 

Cheers

R

[tomhorn]

Unless you are just trying to spread the payments out by buying things piecemeal, you really won't save much money over buying the TC. You can easily sell the parts you don't use, and you'll save a lot of time in the process.

 

Plus, you can then build in stages instead of having to wait until you find all the parts. For example, to find a gen bezel insert without paying an arm and a leg could take some time.

 

You might want to contact him and see if he'll sell only the parts you think you need, but personally I'd go for the whole kit.

 

I think the Sean case and the BK case will both take gen parts if you want to go that route.

[clem2192]

Can anyone help.....

Does a Noob M case take gen parts (crystal, bezel insert, crown & tube)

Will it also house a Swiss ETA 2824-2 movement??

[clem2192]

Ok so the time is now approaching for the start of my first project.....

 

I decided to purchase the stand alone parts from TC for his Sub Type II and sourced an ETA 2824-2 movement, this is going to be the basis of my build.

 

I have picked up a number of genuine parts (some are currently enroute as I type); Gen Insert, Gen Crystal, Gen Dial & Gen Crown.

 

I must admit, I am strating to worry that I have bitten off more than I can chew  , especially with the gen dial mod. but I am willing to give it a go and see if I can pull it off (if not I may come begging to some of the UK based modders for some help & advice - any suggestions ??)

 

Through copious amounts of bedtime reading & research on similar build projects on here I think I have a good basis on which to begin but I do have a few questions so hopefully some of the modders who have carried out a similar project can help ??

 

1) The gen dial mod to ETA is the most daunting part, part of me doesnt want to ruin a gen dial by clipping the feet but part of me really wants to go full bloodied at this franken. I have posts about gluing the dial to the the date wheel spacer ring, using the dial dots or using the ETA feet positioning too that was manufactured by another member. What is the best way to approach this ?? I dont think that I have a date wheel spacer ring on the 2824 ??

 

2) When installing the crystal do I need to use a crystal sealant between the gasket & bezel or will the crystal gasket be enough to waterproof the crystal ??

 

3) I have a gen crown but need the inner crown gasket as it was missing. Does anyone know where I can source the correct gasket ??

 

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

Cheers

Ryan

Edited August 12, 2013 by clem2192

[clem2192]

 

Our replica watches shop management, large scale, the price is affordable, good 

 

faith transactions, product updates faster, in the product watchesreplica001.com

 

 

This may be a stupid question but what does this have to do with any of the questions in my post ??

[vootzilla]

Its the sales bot spammer..

[clem2192]

Also is there an 'easy' way to align the DWO to the original date wheel ??  Does the TC DWO have a 'line' or reference point to follow ??

 

Do I need to remove the 2824 date wheel in order to apply the overlay or can this be done in position ??

[tomhorn]

The TC DWO has registration marks, but you may still have to fiddle with it a bit to get it 'perfect. The easiest way to get the alignment done since you went with a 2824 would be to use the TC dial (since it has dial feet for the 2824) to help you check the position while you work with it.

Edited August 12, 2013 by tomhorn

[clem2192]

Also is there an 'easy' way to align the DWO to the original date wheel ??  Does the TC DWO have a 'line' or reference point to follow ??

 

Do I need to remove the 2824 date wheel in order to apply the overlay or can this be done in position ??

 

Sounds like sensible good advice, especially as the gen dial wont have any feet once they have been clipped. Get everything in place with the rep dial then just swap the dial over - thanks

 

Do I need to remove the date wheel from the movement to do this or can it be carried out in-situ ??

 

Am I also going to need a dial spacer so that the dial doesnt interfere with the changing of the date ?? I have the H4 cannon pinion on my 2824.

[woof*]

If you haven't done this type of work before, consider a modder.

I say that due to the expense of the parts your using. This work is extremely delicate, some people have a knack and some don't.

You really do not want to find out if you have the knack or not... in the middle of working with genuine parts. Dials and hands get permanent damage in just seconds.

I know this because I have done it. Buy some cheap watches to take apart first and as you find success work up to the expensive ones. I tell you this because I have messed up several things.

There are guys around that find all this second nature, and if you look at their tutorials it looks simple and easy it really isn't. There's a good modder in the UK called "Bonsey" and hes on the forums.

You really should consider him or someone like him to help you. I don't want to discourage you, it's your money...but I jumped straight into this and wasted money...maybe you wont. Good luck whatever you do!

[clem2192]

I've played about with simple watches but never anything on this scale / expense.

I've contacted a few modders / watchmakers to see what they come back with.

Part of me really wants to attempt this as the sense of achievement if I manage to pull it off would be immense but on the flip side the sadness if I was to ruin these parts would also probably be great!!

In an ideal world I'd like to have a go myself then if I fail pass it on to a pro who would be able to complete it for me (as long as I haven't stuffed any parts)

Anyone got any tips / answers for my queries at the bottom of the previous page??

[CptTripps]

I'd watch eBay for a gen movement and hands. Unless you're buying TCs hands, (and replacing the cannon pinion) I've not seen rep hands that look all that great.

If you take your time and have a lot of patience, it pays off in spades. You're not talking about that complicated of a build and there are a lot of people that have done it before.

Good luck!