Bond Submariners

[Nanuq]

Lots of people have been asking me the last couple of days what I think of Luckyyy's "Bond" Sub ... do I

think it's a good starting point to recreate a believable rep.

IMHO you can do better. A Bond Sub should have a much thinner case than the current Sub-based models

and a twinlock crown is a must... up until the era of 5508 and 5510 Subs when Brevet ruled the day. I'm

speaking of the earliest ones.

My advice is to start with the Silix "Triple Red" Sub and go from there. You get the thin case and small

crown, and the changes needed after that are easy to do... though parts will be hard to find.

Here are some photos for comparison, to see how close the TRS is to a genuine 6536. You'll need to drill

the lugs and get a new bezel/insert and dial. Then you're 90% done.

Cheers!

Edited March 27, 2006 by Nanuq

[miquel]

I bought this sub from Silix...

I think the hands are too narrow?

It needs holes drilled, caseback polished, and some "ageing".

Davey did some nice work on his case...can't remember where the post is/was.

The price was right, though!

[jsph]

uh... nanuq... what are you doing with a genuine 6536?...

holy crapoly...

[jsph]

you, sir, are hard core. and put that james bond to shame, you do. let's see him just try to get his watch back...

[enzo]

just arrived, one of the Silix beauties today. The quality v price on these things makes them icredible and it seems to just go on from there. Went with the older painted indices dial, and the thing makes the perspex look yellowed, I love that!

[leitztozeiss]

Are the markers supposed to have the silver ring??

[alligoat]

@ Nanuq,

Could you enlighten me as to which is the original 6536 and which is the rep. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd choose the one on the right in the first picture as the gen.

[Edge]

@alligoat

Correct the TRS is a rep, and the gen is the 6536 is the watch on the right in the first pic.

[leitztozeiss]

Genuine below?

[leitztozeiss]

There are two models (186 and 187) at silix that I'm looking at. Both have the 'painted' markers, but the 186 doesn't have the red triangle around the bezel dot. 187 does have the red triangle, but is not in stock. Is the red triangle 'important'?

Here is ROL186 at silix:

Here is ROL187 at silix:

[Edge]

Here is the TRS, from silix:

ROL183

Which is better ROL187 or ROL183

[Richard Tracy]

Thanks for posting Nanuq, quick question, I once located a dealer of gen bond dials,..hands ect..

are you saying they would fit into the silix trs case ?

[Richard Tracy]

Thanks...Nanuq, well how about taking his ROL187, replacing the insert, having Zig relume the markers to look like gen ?

[miquel]

The 186 looks like it has SEL. The only problem with the 187 is that the hands are whiter than the dial...so a relume is a good idea to even them up. The 187 comes with a nice rivetted Oyster bracelet...a nice vintage touch.

Sounds like a fun project...anyone going to bite?

[Richard Tracy]

There ya go! Perfect solution. Watch the lugs tho...........

Hmmm,.. my dream watch may be on the horizon..though in rep form..Thanks..

[leitztozeiss]

Should the rehaut be deep like the date versions?

Also, the 187 is out of stock. I'm waiting for an answer from silix on next availability.

[alligoat]

Well lucky me, my Rol187 arrived from Silix today!

The bezel insert is like Nanuq's and has the red triangle at the top. Vintage Rolex Sport Models has a pic of a 6538 w/ the red triangle on the insert

The dial has the applied lume, no wg surrounds, but mine is a bit yellow green- need to tone it down. The minute hand is pretty thick, like on an LV sub, and the hands are a tad brighter than the hour markers. I'll be checking out the Vintage Rolex book tonite!

White dial text w/ 100m=300ft, and Submariner below

No lugs holes- get out the drill, this could be a little tricky. I guess I'll try to angle the drill bit from the inside and drill thru to the outside. A mini right angle drill sure would be helpful- real mini!

The bezel is uni-directional and clicks- that can't be right.

And a screw just fell out of the rivetted bracelet, better tighten them all!

Case appears to measure 38.5mm, but I'll get out the calipers tonite at home and check it closer

I already scraped off the 116610 sticker and I'll take the case opener to it tonite and check out the Asian auto movement! This should be fun, and for what you pay, who cares if you mess it up!

[alligoat]

Yep, twinlock crown, Rolex logo with the line below, and the plexi crystal is domed about 2mm.

The bezel insert doesn't bother me that much, except for the GD pearl! When you compare it to the pearl on your 6536, the gen pearls were/are so subtle, and no metal ring or a very subtle one. The rep pearl is big and has the metal rim. I guess I could knock it off! And it's the age old question, how hard is it going to be to find and insert that fits, w/o selling the farm.

[Edge]

Yep, twinlock crown, Rolex logo with the line below, and the plexi crystal is domed about 2mm.

The bezel insert doesn't bother me that much, except for the GD pearl! When you compare it to the pearl on your 6536, the gen pearls were/are so subtle, and no metal ring or a very subtle one. The rep pearl is big and has the metal rim. I guess I could knock it off! And it's the age old question, how hard is it going to be to find and insert that fits, w/o selling the farm.

Get one from Michael they aren't expensive.....and of very good quality.

Chris

[enzo]

the ROL187 was unavailable, silix as always is a bit behind in the web info.

@alligoat - I just got the very same model, you describe the text as white, I'd say my is yellowed, closer to the indexes. I have the same colour varience between index and handset, hands glow, dots don't, but they'd need building up with lume to look better anyway. Bezel clicks, and like you I thought the older ones when either way, removal of the clicking post would cure that.

The trickest thing I would think is drilling the lug holes thru - without some kind of rigged drill press this sounds really hard? Far more problematic than enlarging existing holes . . . does anyone offer this as a service? Otherwise, I don't see this happening.

[alligoat]

I just took the bracelet off of 6538 and you're right Nanuq. On my watch, it looks like the lugs holes were pretty far back from the ends of the lugs, those holes were filled and new holes were drilled closer to the ends of the lugs, but right next to the old holes. the filler is some lighter colored stuff, but fairly hard.

While I was at it, I got the duct tape out of my truck and opened the case back- works pretty easily!

White plastic spacer holding the Asian movement- no markings.

Between the case lugs it reads Orig Rolex Design, 16600 and a serial number on the other end, maybe stainless steel, also. Inside of the caseback also said 16600 and had the 750K stamp for gold! Yeh, right baby!

Kinda like the $60 datejust I bought on ioffer last month- it looks good and keeps good time (so far), what more can you ask for! I was just buying it for parts or to play with!

[alligoat]

@ Enzo,

Looking thru Skeet & Urul's book, Vintage Rolex Sport Models, it becomes apparent that we're not that close to perfection! A lot of the 6538's had gold lettering and some had the depth in white- 200m=660ft, not the 100m=330ft and one example has it in red. All of the 6538's have Brevet crowns and some of the later models had Officially Certified Chronometer at the bottom of the dial. Production ended in the late 50's.

And the bezel is all wrong (at least according to Skeet and Urul). The red triangle w/ the pearl (small) is OK, but the minute markers never extend past 15 minutes on any bezel insert- a standard sub insert so to speak, except for the red triangle. The only example of an insert with the minute markers around the entire insert is a 1970's model 5517. Some early bezel inserts had no minute marks- 6204, early 6536, 6538, and 6200.

Good news is the fat minute hand is correct for this model as well as 6536, late 6200, 5510 and 5508.

6536's typically had the twinlock crown- Rolex logo w/ the slash (line) below and the 6536 had the 100=330 rating- it might be easier to call ours the 6536! And besides, who is really going to know.

And you're right about drilling out the lug holes, it's going to be a challenge!

[enzo]

I thought I read another thread that supported the minute markers on some of the earlier models, other than the 5517, I will try and find that but it could be lost in the forum swap ... I seem to remember the red triangle is valid on some and white on others? Again, who would know? The thing is that parts like bezel inserts, crowns, pearls, bracelets all wear out on a vintage watch long before the case and movt. These things get replaced, repaired and altered through the history of the watch.

I think my sights are set toward making this watch look it's age. I find this covers a lot of the issues that come up with trying to match a model, epecially and older watch. In, my experience, [mostly with vintage OMEGA of the 1950s,] that even with GENs, you don't find a lot of watches that are consistent to original specs and photos. Too much happens over time and watchmakers by definition are autonomous solution makers. Hands, dials, crowns all may morph with time. So where the accuracy of say a 2006 model may earn splitting hairs, an older watch model, it's also the art of look and feel - almost the task of making it unique, despite it's mass product heritage.

- - the itching, visual tell for me would be those lug holes, hard to make up a story for their absence ... unless you fake solid lugs and etch recess circles on the case? and that's a stretch - might as well get the holes bored by someone who knows how.

[XRT]

Here's a link to some pics of the 6538A that I had Joe make:

link

[Davey]

Davey did some nice work on his case...can't remember where the post is/was.

I should be taking delivery of the dial and bezel soon so will have some finished shots!

I'll take some new shots of the case at some point, its been aged, the top re-satinized and the sides polished to a deep shine, I've drilled lug holes, beveled the edges and fitted genuine bars..

I'm still working on my 1680 and another project, I've got the 1680 with me at work but its got a DRSD dial in it at the moment (I'm just testing the movement ) and I havent "finished finishing" the case.. This is actually based on a $30 no-date sub from silix, I've re-worked the case and drilled lug holes.. And fitted a much better crown.