Cartel 1675 & 5512; how to convert to low beat movement?

[gsiguy]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm trying to find more info on this but have had limited success whilst doing searches.  I'm interested in having Rolexaddict mod a cartel 1675 & 5512 (as per his packages).  However, it does seem that the Cartel watches come with a high beat 2836 movement.  Is this a dead giveaway? If so, I'm wondering what options one has to get it closer to the gen's low beat movements.  Searches reveal a DG movement.  Is this an easy "drop in" movement or are other parts needed?  What other options are there?

[flyr]

Low beat Swiss 2846, unfortunately they are usually old rebuilt and dirty.

[JoeyB]

Ask RolexAddict. Last I heard he recommended the DG movements for his builds.  

[aeromatic]

I purchased some old movements from ebay 2472 eta slow beat for my projects a pack of three 2 of them working great they were clean and oiled but received a full service i prefer used for vintage builds a plus is you know for sure that it is a swiss movement

just write eta on ebay you should find 2846s or similar good luck !

[highoeyazmuhudee]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm trying to find more info on this but have had limited success whilst doing searches.  I'm interested in having Rolexaddict mod a cartel 1675 & 5512 (as per his packages).  However, it does seem that the Cartel watches come with a high beat 2836 movement.  Is this a dead giveaway? If so, I'm wondering what options one has to get it closer to the gen's low beat movements.  Searches reveal a DG movement.  Is this an easy "drop in" movement or are other parts needed?  What other options are there?

just get a 2846. if youre having it modded it sounds like you want something half decent, so go the little bit extra and get the swiss movement. yes the 2836 /2846 beat are night and day beside each other. 2836 to 2846 is a drop in solution. to DG you will have more issues and possibly have a misaligned date (1675) that will drive you nuts.

[sneed12]

2846

 

http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/147952-cartel-1675-converted-to-low-beat

[gsiguy]

Thanks for all the responses!

 

Seems like the easiest solution is to replace 2836 with 2846.  Did a search on ebay and couldn't find much.  I did find this one though...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-SWISS-MILITARY-ETA-2846-BEAUTIFUL-SILVER-DIAL-RUNS-SETS-/271341240033?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f2d32bee1#ht_3194wt_876

 

Not new and not serviced.  Good idea?

[alligoat]

You always are taking a chance with these old movements, but if you can pick it up for $40-50 or less and have it serviced for $70 or so, it's a good deal as far as I'm concerned. You'll also need a set of hands which you can get from Clarks.

[gsiguy]

You can't use the current hands?

[sneed12]

If your current watch has an ETA 28xx in it the hands are a direct swap. If it has a 21j you need new hands.

[gsiguy]

I haven't bought the watches yet and if i do, it does look like the most probable ones i'll get are the 2836 movements ones.

 

So would it be correct to say that, if i wanted the mod to a low beat movement, i will just have to swap out the 2836 for an ETA 2846 (assuming i can find decent ones)?

[gsiguy]

Found this on the net... http://www.esslinger.com/eta-replacement-watch-mechanical-movement-2846.aspx

 

Anyone reckon the movements are worth the moolah they are asking?

[automatico]

"Anyone reckon the movements (Esslinger) are worth the moolah they are asking?"

 

If they have been stored for many years, they may need to be cleaned/oiled to give reliable service and there is no way to tell how long they have been stored. I have some nos Eta 2846 from 6 or 7 years ago that came in plastic cups inside plastic bags and if you remove the balance jewels, take them apart and look at them closely, most are dry or have very little oil. The oil on the pallet jewels/escape wheel teeth is also dried up. They all run Ok but probably not for long. 

You are always better off with a freshly c/o nos movement than a c/o used movement. The problem is with nos 2846 going for around $150 now it is a lot of $$ when you add c/o to the cost.

 

I am not much of a fan of Asian DG/Nanning 2813 etc because of the flimsy date, winding, and setting works. They are also a pain to work on. They are cheap though and a low cost alternative in projects.

 

I just now looked at the 2846 movements and they came from a supply house in Los Angeles CA in June 2006...they were already dried out back then.

They were $49 each. In today's dollars $49.00 equals $56.75.

 

As for running dry...I have a Swiss made Elgin (A.Schild manual wind) from the 1960's/1970's that I bought in 2001 for $10 and it had never been serviced going by the condition of the screws etc. The 21600 bph movement still ran fine, kept good time, and still had 40+ hour reserve. I took it apart a couple weeks ago for c/o and it was completely dry. There were smudges where oil had been on the balance cap jewels but they were dry too.

[gsiguy]

"Anyone reckon the movements (Esslinger) are worth the moolah they are asking?"

 

If they have been stored for many years, they may need to be cleaned/oiled to give reliable service and there is no way to tell how long they have been stored. I have some nos Eta 2846 from 6 or 7 years ago that came in plastic cups inside plastic bags and if you remove the balance jewels, take them apart and look at them closely, most are dry or have very little oil. The oil on the pallet jewels/escape wheel teeth is also dried up. They all run Ok but probably not for long. 

You are always better off with a freshly c/o nos movement than a c/o used movement. The problem is with nos 2846 going for around $150 now it is a lot of $$ when you add c/o to the cost.

 

I am not much of a fan of Asian DG/Nanning 2813 etc because of the flimsy date, winding, and setting works. They are also a pain to work on. They are cheap though and a low cost alternative in projects.

 

I just now looked at the 2846 movements and they came from a supply house in Los Angeles CA in June 2006...they were already dried out back then.

They were $49 each. In today's dollars $49.00 equals $56.75.

 

As for running dry...I have a Swiss made Elgin (A.Schild manual wind) from the 1960's/1970's that I bought in 2001 for $10 and it had never been serviced going by the condition of the screws etc. The 21600 bph movement still ran fine, kept good time, and still had 40+ hour reserve. I took it apart a couple weeks ago for c/o and it was completely dry. There were smudges where oil had been on the balance cap jewels but they were dry too.

 

Hey, thanks for the info, automatico!

 

There is a dearth of 2846s right now and i am wary of paying so much for one which may be old and not serviced.  I think i might just buy the high beat cartel ones, run them for awhile, and then see if i like them enough to mod.

 

Btw, what's a "c/o".  Sorry, just a noob being a noob.

[gsiguy]

Oh... and purely for discussion purposes only (cos i probably can't justify it in reality) what does it take to drop a 1570 or 1560 movement into a Cartel watch?  How much needs to be changed? Dial? DW? Hands? Crown/tube? The Lot?

[automatico]

"what's a "c/o?" 

 

Clean and Oil

 

"...what does it take to drop a 1570 or 1560 movement into a Cartel watch?  How much needs to be changed? Dial? DW? Hands? Crown/tube? The Lot?"

 

Sometimes it is not easy...

1...The 1570 is 12.5 ligne size while Eta 28xx is 11.5 ligne size.

2...The stem has to center in the case tube after the movement and dial are fitted into the case. This is hit or miss on cartel cases.

3...Eta dials will not work on rolex movements and it is hard to mount a dial with no dial feet on a rolex movement.

4...Many cartel cases have dial windows that are too big for oem spec rolex dials.

5...Many cartel cases are not oem spec for crystals, bezels, case tubes etc. 

6...MBK are not cartel watches (and they are expensive!) but they have very good cases that are close to working with a rolex movement.

7...Because dealers often change the source for their watches without notice, a cartel case that someone bought that accepts a rolex movement may not still be in stock and you might get an entirely different case.

 

There are quite a few examples of cartel cases with rolex movements in the rolex section.

 

http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/156885-franken-case-questions/

 

http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/164071-vintage-sub-questions/

 

http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/154835-rolex-152070-into-mbwmbk-case/

 

LIGNE. A unit used in the measurement of watch movements. It is 1/12 French inch [i.e., a pouce] i.e., 2.256 mm. The size of a watch movement is referred to as “so many lignes,” e.g. 8¾′′′ lady’s size or 18′′′ gentleman’s pocket size, etc. The three small strokes (′′′) are the accepted symbol for ligne.

Donald de Carle, F.R.H.I.
Watch and Clock Encyclopedia.

[gsiguy]

"what's a "c/o?" 

 

Clean and Oil

 

"...what does it take to drop a 1570 or 1560 movement into a Cartel watch?  How much needs to be changed? Dial? DW? Hands? Crown/tube? The Lot?"

 

Sometimes it is not easy...

1...The 1570 is 12.5 ligne size while Eta 28xx is 11.5 ligne size.

2...The stem has to center in the case tube after the movement and dial are fitted into the case. This is hit or miss on cartel cases.

3...Eta dials will not work on rolex movements and it is hard to mount a dial with no dial feet on a rolex movement.

4...Many cartel cases have dial windows that are too big for oem spec rolex dials.

5...Many cartel cases are not oem spec for crystals, bezels, case tubes etc. 

6...MBK are not cartel watches (and they are expensive!) but they have very good cases that are close to working with a rolex movement.

7...Because dealers often change the source for their watches without notice, a cartel case that someone bought that accepts a rolex movement may not still be in stock and you might get an entirely different case.

 

There are quite a few examples of cartel cases with rolex movements in the rolex section.

 

http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/156885-franken-case-questions/

 

http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/164071-vintage-sub-questions/

 

http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/154835-rolex-152070-into-mbwmbk-case/

 

LIGNE. A unit used in the measurement of watch movements. It is 1/12 French inch [i.e., a pouce] i.e., 2.256 mm. The size of a watch movement is referred to as “so many lignes,” e.g. 8¾′′′ lady’s size or 18′′′ gentleman’s pocket size, etc. The three small strokes (′′′) are the accepted symbol for ligne.

Donald de Carle, F.R.H.I.

Watch and Clock Encyclopedia.

 

Thank you! Wow! What an education!  Having read all that, i understand now that going gen movement will be going waaaay over my head in terms of effort, luck and finances than i care to invest.  Looks like my best bet is still the 2846 movement (but it is hard to find now...).

 

But once again, the wealth of knowledge that you have does not cease to amaze!

[ceejay]

Why don't you go the tried and tested way of doing a good 1675?

 

Cartel 1655 case that is thinner and closer to gen than the cartel 1675 also accepts gen parts. DG3804B movement, a good reliable low beat (21,000) GMT movement, not the 2813 modded to GMT as it's crap!

from there you can choose dial, hands, crown, bezel etc from clarks, WSO, Ingod, raffletimes etc.

 

Takes away all the guess work and you get a better case to mod

[gsiguy]

You mean the DG3804B won't fit into a cartel 1675? How much in terms of hands, dials, dw needs to be changed from the cartel one? I've just got a reply from JJ and he also recommended the dg3804. However, I have had no success finding a seller... Sent from my RM-821_apac_singapore_293 using Tapatalk

[ceejay]

DG3804B (the real one) here https://www.cousinsuk.com/search-results?searchtext=3804

I say "the real one" as some sellers sell a modded 2813 GMT which as I said above is crap. The DG3804 is a pretty good movement.

 

Sorry don't know if the 3804 will fit in a cartel 1675, it fits in the cartel 1655 case which is thinner (more gen like) than the Cartel 1675 case.

[sneed12]

I say "the real one" as some sellers sell a modded 2813 GMT which as I said above is crap. The DG3804 is a pretty good movement.

 

They are the same movement.

 

Sorry don't know if the 3804 will fit in a cartel 1675, it fits in the cartel 1655 case which is thinner (more gen like) than the Cartel 1675 case.

 

A 2813 or 3804 will fit anywhere an ETA 2836/2846 will fit, it's the same ligne and stem height.

[gsiguy]

 

A 2813 or 3804 will fit anywhere an ETA 2836/2846 will fit, it's the same ligne and stem height.

 

 

So that means there is no necessity to get new hands, dial, dw, etc?

[sneed12]

So that means there is no necessity to get new hands, dial, dw, etc?

 

Have you tried doing a search? This topic has been discussed literally to death.

[gsiguy]

My bad. Will search! Sent from my RM-821_apac_singapore_293 using Tapatalk

[sneed12]

An ETA 2836/46 has physically similar dimensions to the DG2813. The hand sizes are different. Most dials that work with one movement will work with the other in terms of diameter, but the movements have feet located in different places and cannot be swapped directly unless the feet are removed. Datewheels (date discs) will not swap but datewheel overlays typically will.