dovo1695 Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 It's never been easier to buy an amazing Rep out-of-the-box with just a browser and a PayPal account. The bad news is that it attracts a whole slew of Noobs who pop on the forum, ask "who has the best sub", purchase a rep from a trusted dealer like it was Amazon.com (no qc pics), flame the dealer when the date font is wrong, file a Paypal dispute, get the dealers PayPal account shut down, and leave the rest of us holding the bag. It's always been thus to some extent, but it seems worse now than before. I recently saw a post where a new member bought a dive watch rep from a trusted dealer, went swimming with it, was annoyed to find it wasn't waterproof, and was planning to bring it to Rolex Authorized Dealer for repair! That's an avoidable problem to be sure. Toadtorrent's pinned post "Hey Noob...or not so Noob...Read this Now!" is a fantastic primer on rep watch collecting basics and covers most of the frequently asked questions, but it's clear that many folks don't read it. The basic problem I think is that people get really excited when they find out that incredibly high quality rep watches can be purchased out of the box and they just want to buy "the best XYZ" and move on. They're just not going to read 10 pages of instructions. I was thinking about how best to address the issue and I started thinking about the 10 commandments. I'm not a religious person, nor do I want to discuss religion, but I think there is something to be said for distilling a 1000 page book into 10 basic rules. Everybody has time to read 10 basic rules! I thought it might be interesting to develop a list of just 10 simple rules that any noob can read, and avoid 80% of the problems that Noobs experience (or cause!). I'm still a Noob myself, and I'm far from qualified to create such a list but I thought I'd take a first stab at it. Here's my take on the Replica Watch Collecting 10 Commandments (actually, I have 11 that's I'm trying to pare down). What's missing? What are your Rep 10 Commandments? Never ask who has the best "Submariner, Planet Ocean, *ANYTHING*". If you have to ask, you haven't done enough research. Do not post a thread until you've read "http://www.rwgforum.net/forum/163-introductionrulessupport/ Do not post a question thread without first using the search function. Purchase watches from trusted dealers or accept the risks. Understand that buying a replica watch, even from trusted dealers, is not like buying a watch from Amazon. Understand how and why this true. Get quality control pictures and ask questions before buying a watch, not afterwards. Never file a PayPal dispute without first exhausting every conceivable alternative remedy. Understand why that's imperative. Don't assume that your dive watch rep is waterproof, or that the automatic movement doesn't need servicing out-of-the-box. Never wear your replica watch into an Authentic Dealer, or try to have it repaired by someone who isn't replica-friendly. Never use a member's real name on the forum without written consent. Keep your posts, avatars, and other contributions PG rated. The goal is to find the 10 basic rules that cover 80% of the problems Noobs experience or create. What are yours? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) Let me add (copied by a PM that I sent to a newbie that was asking me for suggestions, when I was in here from around 1 month): 1st of all read this: http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/143915-faq-to-service-or-not-to-service-my-thoughts/?hl=+day-date%20+factory and look the example in that topic (http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/143915-faq-to-service-or-not-to-service-my-thoughts/). You'll get an idea about what service is and why it can be necessary or not depending what are your plans with a rep. 2nd read this: http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/24786-read-our-forum-rules/ Then something I got from the others' experiences that are valid rules of this game: if you plan to wear your new rep daily, then avoid the yellow/red gold plated ones: after 8/10 months of daily use the parts more subject to contacts with your skin/shirt will fade showing the stainless steel below be PATIENT when dealing with China traders: they have family, they have a timezone far away from us (I'm writing from Italy, and for USA it's even worse), they have funny long holidays (search the forum for Chinese new year celebrations). So at least give them 2 days to reply a message, and watch in their areas if there is some closure-for-whatever notification post. web is FULL of scam sites, so better dealing with trusted dealers, see them in here: http://www.rwgforum.net/forum/230-watches-clothing-accessories/ and note that some of them changed the URL of their sites: normally the correct one is in a pinned message in each trader area. Also note that some of them don't have a web site: you send them an email or a PM with a request and a photo of what you are searching, and they'll try to get it for you. Also, remember to ASK the dealer if a certain watch is available before to pay for it! Big sites like TrustyTime or PerfectClones often shows many models not more produced... You don't want to pay and then "ops!"... EVERYTIME double check that the site you're looking into for a watch is not a scam site (for example: one of our TDs have this site: http://www.p-cls.com/, while this -> http://www.perfect-clones.net/ is a SCAM site!) some trader offers refund or reship in case of custom seizure, some does not. Ask the dealer in this info isn't in their Q&A site area read this to correctly get the TimeGrapher picture in the QC pictures: http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/143934-how-to-read-timegrapher-results/ the reps are hit or miss: sometimes they comes "DOA" or Dead On Arrival: better a refund than to send it back to China (very risky and expensive procedure). And often a simple service (see the "1st of all" upper) will fix them and make them running perfectly Never put a PayPal dispute: if the PayPal account get closed it's a disaster for all the other customers... Better to interact with the dealer and try to find a solution of the problem. Eventually (if it's a trusted dealer) ask the forum admin to help you Western Union payment is not "bad". If the dealer is trusted you can consider it. Here in the Italian WesternUnion site you can transfer money for free (doing all online with bank to bank or bank to cash transfer) and the dealers normally give you a discount using that system. My last ToroBravos purchase went through that system and I got 10% discount on a 650$ amount so I'm more then paying my shipment with that discount ;-) awoid to purchase a watch with movement Asian 7750 with seconds subdial @6 or @12 (like IWC portuguese and others IWC and some Rolex Daytona). They have problems and will fail within few time. Search about them on the forum (especially in the IWC area) avoid posting QC picture on the forum: before to choose your watch, search for gen pictures on the web and compare them with the rep: it's not always easy to get a valid rep (I got mad to select a valid Rolex Day Date II as Rolex did a HUGE amount of models in the years changing just few details and the reps sometimes are pure fantasy and sometimes mix old dial with new hands or similar stuff) also avoid very complex objects: an IWC PORTUGUESE GRANDE COMPLICATION is a watch costing 1.000.000€ and produced in 100 pieces/year. NO replica can reproduce such caliber... Even IWC Pilots reps have fake charge indicator... I personally prefer simpler watches where all is working as in the gen never change date on a watch between 10PM and 3AM, it could damage the caliber. Wait the morning after to do that. don't think to find good reps for less than 250US$... (for good reps I mean with good automatic movements that have performances similar to the gen ones: quartz calibers are good if also the gen have quartz calibers, to me it's a total non-sense having a quartz into a watch that is supposed to be mechanic) Compare the BPH of the gen with the one of the rep. Normally gens have 28.8kBph (the numbers of revolution of the balance wheel, see here -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_wheel). The so called 21j or 21.6kBph are cheap movements that sometimes are a clear indicator of a rep watch (see here the difference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkrzw3iAPTo ). Sometimes, by the way, the gens have 21.600BPH (i.e. the AP Royal Oak 15400) so I'd like to find good (gen) Miyota movements running at that speed inside such reps. between an Asian ETA clone and a Swiss ETA clone, go for the Asian, providing it's a Seagull or Hangzhou (PTS Resources Ltd) made one. ETA stopped selling their movements to 3rd parties around 2009/10, so what you see called "ETA" are normally approximately assembled mix of parts or old dry and maybe dirty calibers from some warehouse surplus. Miyota (read "Citizen") are good movements, but not so diffused in the rep world. Hope this help :-) Ciao, GenTLe Edited July 1, 2014 by GenTLe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendota Explorer Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) Here in the States, Western Union charges us between $10 to $25 depending on which method of transfer you want to use. Then your own bank or credit card may charge additional fees. It's not free by any means, at least for us. Edited July 1, 2014 by Mendota Explorer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Here in the States, Western Union charges us between $10 to $25 depending on which method of transfer you want to use. Then your own bank or credit card may charge additional fees. It's not free by any means, at least for us. Wow Here instead you can select "bank to cash" and it's free (well ok, to be fair with the TD you just add some 2/3€ to match the currency exchange applied by WU with the real one). It works this way: you create a transfer on WU selecting that you're sending money from your bank and the receiver is getting them in cash. Once you complete the task, WU sends you a mail with an IBAN code (here in EU it's the unique code of a bank account and it's valid for the whole EU), the bank details needed for the bank transfer, and a WU code that you must put into the "description" field of the bank transfer module. At this point you go into you bank web site (mine has free bank transfer fee for the whole EU zone using € money) and you do the bank transfer. After around 3 working days, WU sees the bank transfer and completes the money transfer. That's all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 10 Rules? 10% read them 90% use the "learning by doing method" - same goes for technical equipment manuals in the office or at home; the information overflow in the beginning is always overwhelming; better to make it 2 rules? - I totally agree with the postings, just being practical, restricting access to m2m sales via min. number of posts is fine; WU: glad it worked for You with a special option but count on paying +-35 usd more if doing it normally from the EU; WU1: Did it through the bank online - 4 days and 35 usd cost; WU2: did it through the post office with full disclosure of personal data and questionnaire - took just 1 hour, cost 20 euro plus 5,5 euro worse exchange rate (+-34,5 usd); WU3: didn´t do it, chose another TD and did it via Paypal letting my bank do the exchange rate -40 USD less than using WU; Best sub: answers will always be: TC has the best, BK has the best, MBW was the best; buy what You like, BP is better, Noob is better than the research starts....... Still looking for the best cartel 5512/5513 with 3,6,9 dial............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 WU: glad it worked for You with a special option but count on paying +-35 usd more if doing it normally from the EU; WU1: Did it through the bank online - 4 days and 35 usd cost; WU2: did it through the post office with full disclosure of personal data and questionnaire - took just 1 hour, cost 20 euro plus 5,5 euro worse exchange rate (+-34,5 usd); WU3: didn´t do it, chose another TD and did it via Paypal letting my bank do the exchange rate -40 USD less than using WU; Uhm... WU italian site can be viewed in English too... What about registering on that site and use it (if you're from an € country)? You never know, you may be here for work (ahahah, what a joke... Work... In Italy there NO work at all these days... but this is another story) I don't know if the site will block you or not when registering, but you may try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
droptopman Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 My favorite commandment, Thou shall mod...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovo1695 Posted July 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 @genTLe: Those were some great points. I followed all of the links and learned a few things myself. The preemptive service thread by rolexman wad especially good. @Nightwatch: You may be right. Eighty percent of people, especially guys, don't read directions. Hell, I don't read directions either. I didn't even read Toads guide until last night! That said, there is a better chance that I'll at least read 10 sentences, than there is that I'll read 10 pages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Hi Gentle thx for the tip&print. Maybe someday will come back to it but for now I will simply use a dedicated CC I have anyway or PP. Since WU is asking 2much questions in some EU-countries already, standard will be the others follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyjynx Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 My 3 Rep collecting Commandments are: #1 - Hide your wallet! #2 - Hide your credit/debit cards! #3 - Hide your Internet-enabled devices! 'Cause your life will never be the same again! "Such a lovely place... This could be Heaven or this could be Hell. We are all just prisoners here, of our own device. Relax, we are programmed to receive. You can check-out any time you like. But you can never leave!" - "Hotel California" - Eagles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 ""Such a lovely place... This could be Heaven or this could be Hell. We are all just prisoners here, of our own device. Relax, we are programmed to receive. You can check-out any time you like. But you can never leave!" :D" So true.................................. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Relax, we are programmed to receive. "ROlex, we are programmed to receive" I'd say 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingair2014us Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Interesting post ! Thanks for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonsage Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 7/1/2014 at 10:19 AM, GenTLe said: avoid to purchase a watch with movement Asian 7750 with seconds subdial @6 or @12 (like IWC portuguese and others IWC and some Rolex Daytona). They have problems and will fail within few time. Search about them on the forum (especially in the IWC area) Hope this help :-) Ciao, GenTLe Does this still apply and does it apply to the watches that have chrono complications in other spots like 3 and 9? Here is one like I am asking about https://www.pf-828.com/omcpo45-304-planet-ocean-chrono-ti-ti-blue-a-7750.html?___SID=U Regards, DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromag Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Nice thread topic! Rule #n is Patience Grasshoppah. The sooner you appreciate that, the sooner you’ll enjoy the hobby more 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 hours ago, dragonsage said: Does this still apply and does it apply to the watches that have chrono complications in other spots like 3 and 9? Here is one like I am asking about https://www.pf-828.com/omcpo45-304-planet-ocean-chrono-ti-ti-blue-a-7750.html?___SID=U Regards, DW The "natural" ETA7750/A7750 has seconds @9, and any other configuration is a modified form, and less reliable, as transfer gears are added, along with efficiency reducing friction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 +1 Cromag, Rule #1 should be "Patience!" Patience with TD's, patience with shipping, patience with emails, patience with PM's, patience when shopping for parts, patience with message board responses, patience when selling, patience when buying .... Rule #2 should be "Don't be an a$$!" Do what you say you're going to do, be honest when buying and selling, don't waste member's time, do your own research before asking for help, don't charge back transactions, understand that stuff happens in this hobby and don't over react when it does .... Once you past those two, everything else becomes easy ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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