Jordanf1 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Sorry i agree with Fraggle ! on this, ive sent stuff back and its been better packed than it was received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukenorris2011 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Well, I guess you (and the customer) now know what an attempt to smear you on the boards will result in ... nealy everyone believing that you have made a very reasonable offer to the customer to help resolve things. I have a lot of experience in running businesses and no matter how hard one tries, there are always going to be customers that you can't please no matter what you do. I'm relatively certain that even if you gave him a new bag for free, he'd probably come onto the forum and make a less than flattering post about having to threaten you to get you to do the right thing. With some customers, there is no pleasing them. Even if they get everything they want. The only defense the customer could possibly have (and it's a stretch) is that he genuinely may have had no idea about how to properly package the bag to return it to you undamaged. Personally, I would have unwrapped things carefully to begin with and re-wrapped it exactly the same way, but not everyone thinks through the potential issues. Regardless, this is a shipping problem and whomever shipped it should be looked to for compensation for the damage. Ken's only duty is to take the bag back and provide the correct one. The customer has the duty to return the wrong product in the condition that it came in. If it got mucked up in shipping, and the shipper doesn't cover the damage, then it's up to both sides to reach a compromise on how to handle things. Ken has made a generous offer to make things right, and if the customer wants to refuse it, then it's on him. Hit the nail on the head... Life's a [censored], then you marry one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 @pcardoza if you bought the bag off him and it arrived in that condition would you still have mixed feelings? @Imvfernades I gave the customer a link to this thread, if he wants to reply he can but you may notice I did not name him so he doesn't need to reveal himself either. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcardoza Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 @Ken, That's not the point though, it it? If you had sent him the correct bag in the first place, this thread would not exist. Personally, I would have accepted your original offer, but that's not the point either, is it? I know the rep business is unique and has it's own set of seller/buyer relationships, but in the end the responsibility lies with the person who made the original mistake. As the seller, you can choose whatever stance you deem appropriate for your business. But then you also have to live with the consequences of possible bad reviews. No matter how many forum members come to your defense, those bad reviews will still be sitting out there. As part of my job, the shipping department reports to me, so I have a decent level of shipping experience and knowledge. I don't think it would ever have crossed my mind to package the bag to prevent humidity from ever reaching it. It's something I have no experience with. To expect the customer to do so, without explicit instruction, is unreasonable, in my opinion. I'm not intending to be jabbing at you, but just trying to make the point that this one bag and subsequent bad review could end up costing you more than this single sale. Is it worth the risk? Only you can decide that....... @pcardoza if you bought the bag off him and it arrived in that condition would you still have mixed feelings? @Imvfernades I gave the customer a link to this thread, if he wants to reply he can but you may notice I did not name him so he doesn't need to reveal himself either. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukenorris2011 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Although ken sent the bag, with a pocket on the oppersite sid, these thins happen. The buyer still has to send it back as delivered too honour his side of things. End off IMO. Let's put this into a context we all here can relate too: Think of it as a watch, your Td sends a Gmt with a black bezel insert instead of one with a Pepsi insert, you send it back, incorrectly, it arrives all smashed up. Should the TD still re-send another watch and suck up the loss? I think your offer is reasonable ken. Life's a [censored], then you marry one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 @pcardoza actually it is the point as Luke points out above these things do happen and when it did I stepped up and agreed to the swap. However making that simple mistake does not mean I should totally fund the deal a second time, take a $300 item back to a store totally destroyed and tell them it was the wrong one and they are going to tell you they wont exchange, what you are saying is you expect more from your replica dealers that what Wal-Mart would offer. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraggle42 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 in the end the responsibility lies with the person who made the original mistake. The responsibility to offer to replace the bag with the correct one, yes. The responsibility for any other damaged caused indirectly or directly to any other party or property, no. That's called consequential loss and is a whole different ballgame. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequential_damages What if the unsealed package with the bag in, whilst sitting in the postal office, was infested by some insect type foreign to the destination, that got out on arrival and then proceeded to cause billions of dollars of damage to the ecology of that country? Do you think Ken should pay for that? What if Ken chucks this bag next door to a strap maker who chooses the wrong bit of leather, a bit that has weaknesses in, and a despot group leader buys the strap, it breaks, falls off, smashes his nicked Rolex and he is that [censored] he starts world war 3? Ludicrous, but in the same vein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 What if a meteor lands in the postal area: http://youtu.be/SMnZr5DDRlA (LOL) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraggle42 Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 We're all DOOOOOOMED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronoluvvv Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 how hard is it to pack a goddamned leather bag ? you don't even have to hard box it. Just make sure it's sealed air-[censored]-tight and to i think, i've packed rubber straps better than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCF Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 I'm new but here is my opinion anyway. 1) Seller claims he didn't receive the item in the same condition item was shipped 2) Buyer either proves the item received by seller is the same he previously received; or he request shipping insurance to refund Seller 3) If none of (2) happen then Seller should call it a day and don't send anything back to Buyer Anything else the Seller is just being nice. Usually only bigger companies can be that "nice" and afford that type of loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernow Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Ken, personally I'd just replace it and I'd not ask for the $50. The reasoning behind it is that the wrong bag was sent out. Your customer has already had the inconvenience of having to send it back to you - time and effort that they'd not have had if the correct one was delivered first time around. Now, $50 may, or may not be a lot of money to them, but it's money they shouldn't have to spend. They'd not have done this intentionally and I'm sure losing another $50 won't ruin your business. If they do accept having to pay $50 for you to send the replacement don't expect repeat business with them. However, if you send a replacement with an apology then they may say 'hey these guys are great to deal with and have corrected their small error without any fuss even though I [censored] up too'. You maybe able to use it to your advantage. Just my opinion, and as they say - opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F.Castro Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 All this for a pocket??? OMG! Is it so god da*mn hard to re-pack it like the way it was delliverd? C'mon, a slap in the face is the onely thing he would have got from me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technit1957 Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 If the customer followed your companies return policy then the company should absorb the cost of the damage, definitely not an employee. Who makes more money should not matter. It isn't the employees fault that this thing went bad. If the customer didn't follow your return policy, then your return policy should spell out what to do in a case like this. It shouldn't have got to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taze00 Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 The guy got the wrong bag, you screwed up... You worked with him to fix the problem. He screwed up. It seems like they are very difficult to work with. It's true you made a mistake but you are trying to rectify the issue. He skrewed things up way worse IMO. I don't feel a company should ever have to compensate for the ignorance of their customers. Anyone who thinks you should have to front them another bag is either ONE: making a business decision so as to create less drama or TWO: is as stupid and ignorant as this customer. Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taze00 Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Honestly id use his ignorance as a example of what not to do if you want a purchase return to work out successfully. Problems arise, returns have a place. If your not old enough or competent enough to return an unwanted item properly then you shouldn't be buying things on the internet in the first place. For all those saying you should have been more explicit in your return instructions are those people that will exploit every gap in your policies to get their way. Don't listen to them. Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted September 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Just a final point for everyone to mull over. How much sympathy do you think you would get from a watch dealer if you returned a watch that was rusted out or smashed? Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I am writing this post because the customer has just threatened (through my sales rep) to smear me on our forum if the issue is not settled in the way he wants. The story... Customer bought a Steve bag, this is a $300 bag and another item. From the start I have him a hefty discount and when he paid I shipped the items. The Steve bag was he received was perfect in every way and the correct size and colour, however the inside layout was different. The bag he requested had an inside pocket at the back the one we sent had the pocket at the front. Most would have been happy with such a small mistake but this customer was not and as it was a genuine mistake on our part I accepted that he return the bag for a swap. Ok this is where the whole thing goes South, the customer (who lives in a Sub tropic Asian country) posted the bag back to China in the middle of Summer without taking the slightest care to wrap the bag well. This is what we received back.... The customer through a total lack of care destroyed this $300 bag as surely as he would have if he had taken a box knife and cut it up! My sales rep is responsible for sending wrong items so she replaces out of her own pocket, Cathy makes less in a Month than what most of you do in a week so it is essential that she has an item she can resell to recoup some loss, obviously that is not the case here. The offer to this customer was that he pay $50 and he will get a new Steve bag, to do this I need to help Cathy out of my own pocket as she just doesn't have this kind of money to give away. So there you have it that is the very best offer I intend to give, the other offer would be what your local store would say if you tried to return an item in that condition! Ken I think that you have been fair towards the buyer Ken. I have dealt with you on a few occasions in the past and I am familiar with your way of handling issues. I am generally very pleased with your communication and service. The equation is simple. If buyer orders X and receives X1, then he should return X in the original condition that it has been received and the rest of the process could play itself out from there. If X is received in a severely damaged condition, it no longer qualifies as X, and the value should be adjusted accordingly. Is this not the clearest and simplest way of reasoning this out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukenorris2011 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Just a final point for everyone to mull over. How much sympathy do you think you would get from a watch dealer if you returned a watch that was rusted out or smashed? Ken This was my point. Something everybody here can relate too. YOU WOULD GET NONE! Life's a [censored], then you marry one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carl Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 How much sympathy do you think you would get from a watch dealer if you returned a watch that was rusted out or smashed? How much sympathy would you have for a dealer who sent out something cleaarly "not as described" and and came here whining about being cauught at it? Not very much, I'd say. It's even more pathetic when someone who comes here as a memeber of the "crew" is here looking for shoulders to cry upon when he gets caught red-handed describing items incorrectly. Boo Hoo. Do a better job, just what is expected here, and you won't have a problem with your customers. Just a suggestion. KB, you have had a free ride here far too long. Of course you have been on this forum nearly from the start and I recognize that you have been here longer than I have been. By four days. There are always two sides to every story. You seem to have a far more extensive history of bad deals discussed here than any of the other dealers here. And this is a watch forum. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted September 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Carl... 1. I am a moderator and have been so from day one because it is I who approached our Admin to form this board that you chose to crap all over with whatever petty complaint it is you have. 2. Have you ever read the forums rules? [7] - Be nice to each other and respect the admin team and moderators. No personal attacks. In particular, malicious comments that insult others based on race, gender, religion, nationality, or sexual preference will not be tolerated. The fastest way to get removed from the community is to turn a discussion into a personal confrontation. [15] - We have NO respect for troublemakers or trolls. If you are not here to contribute or do some peaceful reading, we suggest you find yourself another board. Trolls and troublemakers will be banned at the admin/co-admins/moderators discretion. [18] - This forum is NOT a place for free speech. We are all for free speech and we rarely censor out members, but ultimately this is a private community and we decide what is allowed to post and not. [21] - Any abuse to administrators/moderators can result in an immediate ban from the board. [22] - All instructions from moderators and admins are to be followed. Failing to do so will either get you a warning, get your account suspended or banned.[23] - Moderators and admins are allowed to edit/delete/move/close any posts they wish under reason. If you wish to question a decision, you should PM the moderator or admin in question and ask the reason. All of the above means I could at any time ban you from this forum, the fact you are still here is testimony to my unwillingness to use heavy handed methods to deal with you......but everyone has their limit. I would advise you go about your own business and keep out of mine from now on. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carl Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Sorry Ken. Your abuse of power and bandwidth on this forum is all over now with the threats of your last post. Just go ahead and ban me if you can. All can now read your pitiful threats in all of their basic forms. I am not afraid of you at all. And no one here is afraid of you anymore. If you cannot send an item out which is simply not as described, and you get caiught at it, and come whining here about your misfortune, get another job. No other dealer here gets away with your misbehaviour. Best Regards, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronoluvvv Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Sorry Ken. Your abuse of power and bandwidth on this forum is all over now with the threats of your last post. Just go ahead and ban me if you can. All can now read your pitiful threats in all of their basic forms. I am not afraid of you at all. And no one here is afraid of you anymore. If you cannot send an item out which is simply not as described, and you get caiught at it, and come whining here about your misfortune, get another job. No other dealer here gets away with your misbehaviour. Best Regards, Carl NW Territory ? ya know that can mean almost anything from Oregon to Alaska in US, unless you're in Canada and the rest is self-explanatory no but seriously i luvvv ya Canadiens - all the way from Fraser BC to Drumheller AB that said, i don't think you should be banned but this thread should be left alone as an example on how the lack of $2 worth of packaging can ruin a $200 item granted you didn't get what you paid for i imagine this happens every few times in the rep watch world heck the last AP i bought from a TD showed up but was nothing what i expected nor was the last Tag but after a few pics were exchanged both TDs were more than eager to exchange the goods involved heck the Tag TD didn't even wait to receive the one i didn't like before he shipped me another and that's how this hobby works you can't complain you got the short end of the stick after you cut off the wrong end and got left holding the nub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Just to clarify Carl is NOT the customer, I have never ever sold an item to Carl at all. He has some kind of issue that he claims I deleted or in some way affected a post of his years ago and he has jumped into my threads ever since to try and deride me. I have asked him on a number of occasions what exactly his issue is, I have even asked him if he wants to sort it out through the PM system with me but I honestly think by now that this has more to do with someone else than himself, maybe in my day to day moderating work I have had to censor or even ban a friend or relative and Carl is small minded enough to believe he can cause me grief. The whole point is that it's odds on that I was not even the Moderator that did whatever has upset this infantile member, anyone can go into my review section and see every negative review is still there, you wont find that in the other dealers sections because they have mod powers to remove them. So there is is Carl, grow up and grow a set. Move on it's been years and there is not one member on this forum that that puts as much importance in their posts to carry on like you have. But at the end of the day this is your last warning, feel free to post here again and it will be your last, and no that is not an abuse of power you wouldn't have lasted the first week with one of the other team members! Ken PS. The issue of this topic has been sorted the buyer understands the issue and has paid the $50 to receive the new bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carl Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 "He has some kind of issue that he claims I deleted or in some way affected a post of his years ago and he has jumped into my threads ever since to try and deride me." That's entirely correct. Ken abused his "power" then and continues to post here as both a "moderator" and a "dealer".. When he screws up again (sent out an item "not as described" and things go south for him) he comes here again whining for some sympathy. He seems to be the only dealer here having customer problems that seem to require that level of support. And then he resorts to puerile name calling when he has been called out. It's not very constructive, is it? Yes. it's a blatant conflict of interest having a moderator on a replica goods forum who openly sells replica goods. And seems to have problems even meeting the supposed standards here. I call for him to back off of the name calling, the threats as a moderator, and immediately resign here as a moderator. Anytining else is an insult to the forum and destructive to it. Yours for a better forum. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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