What has happened to Panerai?

[HauteHippie]

Alright folks, someone shed some light here.  Not long ago, Paneristi forums were thriving.  Today it seems they're a bit of a ghost town.  Threads would normally grow to multiple pages in a day.  Now, discussion is minimal.  Has the obsession subsided at large?  Look at the 'risti sales forum.  Pricing is down on most things (save for Pre-V and a select few) 15% or more over what I'd grown accustomed to maybe a year or so ago.  Incredibly nice pieces - limited runs - aren't selling until a price drop or two.  Etc.  So what gives?  Had Panerai become a fad, and is its heyday a thing of the past?  Have they milked their historic models one too many times?  Is the concept of introducing new models which are only slight variants of existing models finally wearing thin?

 

What say you???

[civic4982]

I think a new slew of in house movements at a reasonable price range will pump up the brand.

8 days for under $7k for in house movements.

That's pretty good.

The things like that 382 and some of the interesting materials are still interesting to buyers.

The days of outrageous flipping may be gone but I think the brand will thrive.

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[Chuan]

If I may throw in my 2 cents. When I see the new designs, I don't get the same feelings for them as compared to the old simpler models.

I am just guessing that they are trying to pack more functions and features into the new designs which kinda make them lose a little of their identity in my opinion...

Chuan

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[fishgodeep]

Too a large degree , fashion has fanned Panerai's growth and increased awareness and subsequent demand.

But fashions change and brands can soon turn from leaders to followers with that fickle set.

Times are also changing with less young consumers even bothering to wear a watch for many years now - Ok not exactly Panerai consumers, but  they grow up.

Panerai should survive and prosper , provided they can bend quickly enough if the market "wind" bears down on them.

Personally , I am not a fan of many of the modern pieces , despite innovation and in house movements they lack the simplicity and charm that is Panerai's DNA.

[pcardoza]

I think there's a lot of validity in this question.   So many of the recent PAM releases are offer only very slight differences from previous models.   Personally, I have 6 PAM reps in my collection and there is nothing new out there that makes me want a number 7.   

 

My preferences focus around 44mm and 47mm pieces of which I have 3 each.   029, 196 Daylight, 188 Daylight, 389, 371 Regatta, 382 Bronzo

 

Is the concept of introducing new models which are only slight variants of existing models finally wearing thin?

 

[HauteHippie]

Too a large degree , fashion has fanned Panerai's growth and increased awareness and subsequent demand.

But fashions change and brands can soon turn from leaders to followers with that fickle set.

Times are also changing with less young consumers even bothering to wear a watch for many years now - Ok not exactly Panerai consumers, but they grow up.

Panerai should survive and prosper , provided they can bend quickly enough if the market "wind" bears down on them.

Personally , I am not a fan of many of the modern pieces , despite innovation and in house movements they lack the simplicity and charm that is Panerai's DNA.

What about historic models like the 372 among others? These are very true to the originals.

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[fishgodeep]

What about historic models like the 372 among others? These are very true to the originals.

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B - It is a great watch but not to my personal taste....and I agree surprising that this hasn't become the 127 of our day.

Shows how tastes change.

S

 

 

[Nanuq]

FGD is back! Hey it's like old times around here. Nice seeing you!

[fishgodeep]

FGD is back! Hey it's like old times around here. Nice seeing you!

 

A great honour from The North. Thank you.  ...actually enjoying participating more than I expected ....like riding a bike

Best

S

[StormTooper4]

Chieftang

I just don't think people, myself included put as much effort into their post these days. There are 2 factors that contribute to this in my opinion.

Firstly the quality of the PAM reps these days is outstanding compared to say 5 years back. Why post a watch when it's all up on dealers site and its the same as another post on the same watch.

Secondly and this sort of contradicts my first point but of all the forums RWG's PAM section is the most anal and possibly intimidating. People might be intimidated to post their watches because it' not a highly modded version and inaccuracies become the focus rather than the shear enjoyment of owning and wearing watch. The aspect is very sad and I think has led to the lack of activity.

Today the posts that seem to have the most effort put into them are the PreSale post, where members show off their wears to solicit the sycophantic OOHH and AAHHHs to build desire to flog their stuff for mucho $$$ In the sales section a few weeks later.

I realise I sound rather disparaging and cynical but I wanted to address your question.

[panda06]

 

 

maybe it will since production stop and imho having both in hand 372 is more sexy on sunny days 

[HauteHippie]

Ya I considered the rep angle too.  I don't think it's a significant factor, myself.  If it were, Rolex and many others would be going by the wayside as well.  I think reps have the opposite affect actually.  They bolster a brand name and really only serve to increase its popularity - or at the very least are an indicator of a brand's popularity - but don't represent a significant loss of revenue for the brand itself.  

 

Something has happened to Panerai for sure.  And after I talked to a few "catch and release" type 'risti members I get the sense that the enthusiasm has simply subsided.  People can't quite put their finger on it, but they simply know that their obsession just isn't what it once was.  So this, to me, is the definition of a fad that has come and gone.  And we're not even in an economic downturn (just yet), so can't chalk it up to that either.  But we can think of many other fads over the years.  Hey, who out there is still wearing Affliction clothing?  

 

Kinda sad, I suppose.  And I think reinventing oneself is incredibly difficult.  But time will tell.  We'll just wait and see I guess.

Edited April 4, 2015 by chieftang

[Ephry73]

I for one like the simpler older PAMs. I would love to see their newer models with the rotating bezels and funky dials, etc... Be part of a sub brand child. Kinda like scion is for Toyota.

Their in-house movements are getting better, but some of their "modern twist" designs are blah.

Stick to what you know and has persevered. Your bread and butter should not be messed with. After all, they have survived for more than a few decades sticking to their roots. Just my HO.

[flyr]

I for one like the simpler older PAMs. I would love to see their newer models with the rotating bezels and funky dials, etc... Be part of a sub brand child. Kinda like scion is for Toyota.

Their in-house movements are getting better, but some of their "modern twist" designs are blah.

Stick to what you know and has persevered. Your bread and butter should not be messed with. After all, they have survived for more than a few decades sticking to their roots. Just my HO.

Sorry to disagree, but their roots were withering.

Very few liked Panerai prior to the early 1990's.

The company was going bankrupt.

Stallones promotion and Richmounts purchase is all that saved them.

I think the balance is swinging back there once again.(but not as far as bankruptcy)

These days there will always be someone to buy them,as people bought Studebaker and Edsel.(just not enough)

The fandom in the rep world exists because you can get a rep very cheap that is virtually a clone of the very expensive gen.(and may continue even if gen sales drop)

As far as in house movements go,they have yet to be proven over decades of use.

JMHO

[Ephry73]

Sorry to disagree, but their roots were withering.

Very few liked Panerai prior to the early 1990's.

The company was going bankrupt.

Stallones promotion and Richmounts purchase is all that saved them.

I think the balance is swinging back there once again.(but not as far as bankruptcy)

These days there will always be someone to buy them,as people bought Studebaker and Edsel.(just not enough)

The fandom in the rep world exists because you can get a rep very cheap that is virtually a clone of the very expensive gen.(and may continue even if gen sales drop)

As far as in house movements go,they have yet to be proven over decades of use.

JMHO

Yes, we can definitely disagree. This is the whole point of the post LOL. I see your point, but also understand that the watches themselves were (and still are) not to everyone's taste. The thing that peeked everyone's interest in the brand was the simple military heritage and the fact that everything about the watch was purposeful.  Heritage is key here. 

[StormTooper4]

Yes, we can definitely disagree. This is the whole point of the post LOL. I see your point, but also understand that the watches themselves were (and still are) not to everyone's taste. The thing that peeked everyone's interest in the brand was the simple military heritage and the fact that everything about the watch was purposeful. Heritage is key here.

I for one couldn't give a stuff about some over cooked military history. Sly brought this brand to the world and I doubt he gave a stuff about a couple of Italian fascists sitting on some Fiat powered underwater penis looking sub.

 

If anything Panerai these days seems to want to associate itself with the sailing world which is really where its heritage actually stems from,  which is Nautical instruments. The military slant is lame

[civic4982]

penis submarine. Love that line! Haha

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[lhooq]

I for one couldn't give a stuff about some over cooked military history. Sly brought this brand to the world and I doubt he gave a stuff about a couple of Italian fascists sitting on some Fiat powered underwater penis looking sub.

 

I was recently reading Panerai PR materials for the new titanium Mare Nostrum, which "celebrates the Royal Italian Navy's supremacy over the Mediterranean in 1942."  (Not an exact quote, but words to that effect.)  All I could think was, "Jeez, has it been that long since the swinging days of Mussolini that marketing flacks think it's good to shine a light on this period?"

 

On the other hand, it's still easier to swallow than U-Boat's BS "heritage".

[mabmojo]

If I may throw in my 2 cents. When I see the new designs, I don't get the same feelings for them as compared to the old simpler models.

I am just guessing that they are trying to pack more functions and features into the new designs which kinda make them lose a little of their identity in my opinion...

Chuan

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I couldn't agree more. The only model what I am into is the 382. The historic models are really the brands identity for me. I talked with a previous AD here in Naples. And he said he was a bit concerned on what is happened to the brand. He felt like they have lost there base Customer. He felt that it was a brand that should be in the $3-8k

[gran]

http://www.rolexforums.com/archive/index.php/t-214147.html

 

Panerai like other brands have flooded the market and the automatic non-historic models are not that "hot" as dictated by the market and the forums. They are usually for sale at a significant discount used. This should come as no surprise.

 

and this was said more than 2 years ago

Edited April 25, 2015 by gran

[Lacuadra]

This is the sole opinion of a newbie:  Panerai are just so common that pretty much, you assume, everyone is wearing a fake one.  Granted I am no expert so could not really tell.  

 

I mean, I go to the mall and see kids wearing all kinds of models. Most of them bought thru iOffr or AliB and  paid close to $100.00.  Same goes for Louis Vuitton stuff or Hermes belts.

That is an area I know well,  Much easier to spot a fake one. And trust me, it is so interesting to see the (very privately) fake ones. Some bad copies out there.  

 

I for one, am planning to buy a nice PAM replica.  Thinking about the 111 Noob v3 from PT or Toro.  Quite honestly, Jomashop has a sale right now, but I doubt I would ever pay 7k for a real one.  Gimme a Breitling or 

Rolex instead. or a real Chopard GT Xl, that is a nice one.

 

Better replicas,plus cheaper prices and stronger US Dollar. I am very happy   

Edited May 1, 2015 by Lacuadra

[mastergod]

Very interesting thread. I don't have the answer to the original question, but still I'd like to offer my perspective from the branding business.

 

More important than a brand or product, is the question every human is subconsciously asking himself (often without being aware of it). This question is "who am I". Brands and products help people answer that question - to themselves and to others.

 

I think Panerai's initial (1990's) appeal was that it was simple, bold, manly and had a kind of warrior aura to it. However many brands have exactly these specs. At the core of Panerai's appeal however, was uniqueness (mainly because of the crown guard). Also, the brand was new YET had a solid history. 

 

In my opinion, people who fought the first Panerai wave were independent people who felt special. People who didn't follow the herd. 

 

Maybe the core driver of the Panerai brand doesn't exist anymore. Rather, the opposite is the case. If you get a Panerai, you do follow.

 

So maybe a person asking "who am I" won't look to Panerai for answer his question. 

 

I'm fully aware that this logic doesn't apply to the majority of the consumers, but changes start somewhere, and I feel that Panerai's lack of ability to answer "who am I" is the tip of the ice berg.

 

That said, I believe Panerai will thrive for many years. Without the buzz and the energy. It would be - theoretically at least - impossible for any brand in any category to maintain their vitality and comparing to Rolex is impossible because Rolex was built under totally different circumstances.

 

Just my 2 cents:-) MG

 

 

[HArwood22]

For me the brand has changed as a result of evolution. Early on these pieces were very limited and affordable. Collectibility started for me In 2000. As the transformation to Richemont took place the brand started to change.

Prices would sky rocket for many limited run series, but for me once MSRP inflated ( for me it was the 127)over 3 years I think it doubled in MSRP and the brand suddenly became mainstream my obsession slowed. It always amazed me how many of these very very limited PREV watches all of a sudden show up unworn for huge monies. Could a secret stock of left overs be pieced together? Complete sets call me crazy

Social media( forums) helped drive the brand away from the boutique product I was so obsessed with for a period of time, and the knowledge based forums soon became commercialized and new members joined with different intentions than the founding ones.

Just my take....

[rek001]

To add to the discussion, (maybe), here in Illinois we have a young state rep named Aaron Schock, who just had to resign in disgrace due to very questionable spending of constituents' tax dollars.

 

He's a fitness buff, was on the cover of Men's Journal showing off his 6 pack abs, and has an infamous IG account showing his fun filled life. Kinda inappropriate for a public official IMO.

 

He's also been photographed wearing a Panerai on the job. I find that interesting. To me it's the cool hip watch to wear right now if you're young and (were) successful.

[TmeShare]

Standing the test of time is always the challenge for any business once it has manages to establish a foothold. Rolex gets this and through consistent marketing and slow careful changes to its model lines maintains a consistent image, quality and as such similar customers through time. While Panerai is anything but in decline, I do think that some of their actions have confused consumers. The multitude of model choices can be confusing and some changes like moving from the old style strikingly different bracelet to a plain bracelet have been regressive moves. I also think it may be a bit of a backlash from their success - the watch was unique in size and its crown gaurd but now many watch brands have larger unique looking watches such as the IWC Big Pilot, AP 44mm ROO, Breitling Super Avenger etc so the choice of a large watch is much wider now.

Interestingly, even Stallone who helped inadvertently revive Panerai has somewhat moved on by wearing other watches such as the U-Boat. I think Panerai will ultimately consolidate its model line and remain successful.

A final note is a watch store owner who carries Rolex, Breitling, Patek, Tag Heuer and Cartier told me that he once tried to carry Officine Panerai and found the brand very difficult to deal with and that Panerai had a real sense of entitlement in its business dealings and abandon the idea of carrying the line..........in the end it is a business.

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