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Affordable submariner?


automatico

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In the 1970s maybe... 

STAINLESS ROLEX SUBMARINER DATE
USA retail prices:

1973 $385
1975 $470
1977 $585
1978 $875
1980 $950
1982 $1175
1984 $1325
1986 $1575
1988 $1975
1989 $2500
1992 $2850
1996 $3350
2004 $4250
2005 $4525
2006 $5175
2008 $5850
2009 $6000
2010 $7250
2010 $7375
2012 $8500

8.3% AVG INCREASE PER YEAR

Submariner Price as % of average income...
1973 $7,580......$385        5.08%
1975 $8,631......$470        5.45%
1977 $9,779......$585        5.98%
1978 $10,556....$875        8.29%
1980 $12,513...$950        7.59%
1982 $14,531...$1,175     8.09%
1984 $16,135...$1,325     8.21%
1986 $17,322...$1575      9.09%
1988 $19,334...$1,975    10.22%
1989 $20,100...$2,500    12.44%
1992 $22,935...$2,850    12.43%
1996 $25,914...$3,350    12.93%
2003 $34,065...$4,250    12.48%
2005 $36,953...$4,525    12.25%
2006 $38,651...$5,175    13.39%
2008 $41,335...$5,850    14.15%
2009 $40,712...$6,000    14.74%

Price projections based on 8.3% annual increase...
2015 $10987
2020 $16369
2025 $24388
2030 $36335

I found all this somewhere on the 'net a while back.

Edited by automatico
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Great data compilation! Love the % of income, that really helps it hit home. There's a lot of people out there that will tell you that Rolex is just "responding appropriately to market demand and inflation" but I think there's something deeper there...something that is completely out of whack. 

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Greed, and deffinitly responding to market pull.  If they can sell enough watches to be happy at 10000 vs 6000 then why not?  That seems like their current policy....

the other way of looking it is they feel their product should be more exclusive and be worth more, so they figure they can produce less quantity and still make the same amount of money.  the end result is their product becomes more exclusive.  As long as their name supports the higher value and they do hit their target sales they will probably keep doing the same until they reach the point where they are worried that at that price break they will not have final sales.  Not saying this is correct, but....  Think porshe, the cheyene is  basically a upgraded taureg in different clothing, but almost double the $.  Is there that much more value?  Not really, you are paying for the name.  Same with the Rolex.  Honestly, forget the name, if you take a $500 rep sub with a swiss eta and put it side by side with a rolex sub.  Forget the name!!!  Is the rolex really 10 times better?  Be honest....No, you are buying a name and the prestige that come with it!!!  This was not true in 1970 when the rolex was the ultimate diver.  Just not anymore....

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I tend to agree with you cavi, back in the late 60's and early 70's there were very few choices when it came to real "Dive " watches. I mean the ones that guys who were diving in the water, not desk diving!! The BP FF, Doxa's 300T series, Spirotecnique, Omega and Rolex were sort of out front, although the Rolex even back then was more expensive. As time went on, Rolex began to spend a lot more on advertising, sponsoring lots of sports that attracted more upscale clientele, Auto racing, Polo, Golf, etc. It cost a bundle to sponsor sporting events, buy TV time and full page ads in expensive upscale magazines.. I believe that as their advertising budget grew, and they were really shifting toward more upscale buyers, they began to push the prices up and up. Obviously there was not much push back as Rolex sold every watch they produced. There were some slow sellers, one of  which was the Daytona Cosmograph. It was a throwback watch, manual wind with no date in and era of automatic date watches, but over time, all sold, and Rolex kept pushing the prices upward.

Are they worth the price, obviously to thousands and thousands of folks who walk into AD's and walk out with a brand new Rolex on their wrist, they are. To me, they aren't. If I were in the market for a genuine, I wouldn't even spend one minute in and AD, looking at list price watches. I would find a good gently used one at a pretty big discount from new. If you can get one for 30-40% of the new price, you are in safe territory, because should you not "love it", you can sell it on and not take a beating. In fact if you buy right and keep one for a few years, you might sell it for more than you paid for it. Here are two examples that I own.

   1. 16750 GMT 1986 purchased in 2006 Price 2400.00 USD today 5000.00-7000.00 USD 

    2.  16610  2000 "P" serial  Sub purchased 2011 3250.00 USD today 5000.00-6000.00 USD

So if I were to sell these I could more than double my money on the GMT and almost double my money on the Sub. So to me it's a no brainer. Buy a good used one every time. The nice thing about Rolex, they build thousands of each model, so there is no exclusivity about the watches. There are hundreds of each common model for sale at any given time, and while Rolex can control the new market with and iron fist, they cannot control the resale market.

 

 

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Great topic and comments.

The way I see it Rolex 40-50 plus years was a very nice watch / tool watch that was priced right for the time. Fast forward to the current Rolex and it appears they are becoming a luxury brand in the upper echelon of watchmakers not at the top but they sure seem to be trying with their current pricing structure. JMHO

 

Thanks

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I tend to agree with you cavi, back in the late 60's and early 70's there were very few choices when it came to real "Dive " watches. I mean the ones that guys who were diving in the water, not desk diving!! The BP FF, Doxa's 300T series, Spirotecnique, Omega and Rolex were sort of out front, although the Rolex even back then was more expensive. As time went on, Rolex began to spend a lot more on advertising, sponsoring lots of sports that attracted more upscale clientele, Auto racing, Polo, Golf, etc. It cost a bundle to sponsor sporting events, buy TV time and full page ads in expensive upscale magazines.. I believe that as their advertising budget grew, and they were really shifting toward more upscale buyers, they began to push the prices up and up. Obviously there was not much push back as Rolex sold every watch they produced. There were some slow sellers, one of  which was the Daytona Cosmograph. It was a throwback watch, manual wind with no date in and era of automatic date watches, but over time, all sold, and Rolex kept pushing the prices upward.

Are they worth the price, obviously to thousands and thousands of folks who walk into AD's and walk out with a brand new Rolex on their wrist, they are. To me, they aren't. If I were in the market for a genuine, I wouldn't even spend one minute in and AD, looking at list price watches. I would find a good gently used one at a pretty big discount from new. If you can get one for 30-40% of the new price, you are in safe territory, because should you not "love it", you can sell it on and not take a beating. In fact if you buy right and keep one for a few years, you might sell it for more than you paid for it. Here are two examples that I own.

   1. 16750 GMT 1986 purchased in 2006 Price 2400.00 USD today 5000.00-7000.00 USD 

    2.  16610  2000 "P" serial  Sub purchased 2011 3250.00 USD today 5000.00-6000.00 USD

So if I were to sell these I could more than double my money on the GMT and almost double my money on the Sub. So to me it's a no brainer. Buy a good used one every time. The nice thing about Rolex, they build thousands of each model, so there is no exclusivity about the watches. There are hundreds of each common model for sale at any given time, and while Rolex can control the new market with and iron fist, they cannot control the resale market.

 

 

Funny enough I have same models as yours.

Also paid similar prices to you too...what else is on your list?

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Probably nothing. I have too many watches and only one left wrist!!! Misielkped is building me a nice franken 116710 with gen dial,bezel,insert Crystal and crown, hands and DW, converted yuki 3135. Probably will be my last big project. I'm in my 7th decade so it's time to stop spending money and get my retirement in order.

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with inflation that 1973 sub is still only $2060

 

my local AD wanted close to $8K for a complete NOS 14060 (non ceramic)sub he had lying around last year

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Absolutely ridiculous. Pure stupidity right there. I hope it sits and gums up in his case to the point where it needs a major overhaul. He will never sell it. Nobody, including morons, would ever pay that.

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