Dial with no feet ....

[Mike_G]

So I'm putting together my 1016 Explorer build. I have a Yuki dial and a gen ETA movement. Its a 2824 movement so it has a date wheel. I'll have to cut the feet off the dial. The question is how best to put all this together. One forum member suggested epoxying the dial to the spacer that goes between movement and the dial. Easy enough to do , but is that all I need to do? Do I need to secure the spacer to the movement? Should I use dial dots? If I use dial dots, where do I put them?

[UmpaHimself]

I haven't personally done this myself but IMO the best way to go is to clip the existing feet and mount new feet. That way you can remove the dial easily if you ever need to swap it to a different movement or do a repair. In case you do want to use dots, take a look at this vid

 

 

[Nightwatch]

In the vid 4:49 and 4:50, exactly as I thought: neither the center is aligned nor does it look (perfectly) aligned at 3. Seems he´s using way too many dial dots. are 3 (or 5) not enough?

My main interests here are: how to "perfectly" align the dial and if fitting new feet it´s the same, without equipment they will not be exactly at the right location.

Is aligning the stem with 3 o´clock and trying to get the best at the center the best way of doing this?

Glueing to the movement ring sounds better at first glance. I´ve never done this either and looking for simple solutions as well.  Any tip is very welcome.

 

 

[UmpaHimself]

I was planning on using this method for my gen 1680 dial although now I have decided not to use that dial

http://www.homageforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1419&sid=6e4bb8917694bf4cb2aef05321cb3b82

[highoeyazmuhudee]

what i used was double sided 3m scrap-booking tape on the dial spacer ring. install ring on movement position dial properly and set on to movement.

[automatico]

From my experience, the best way to solidly mount a dial with no feet on an Eta 28xx is to use a spacer that:  1 - fits around the movement with little or no side to side movement  2 - fits snugly inside the inner diameter of the case with little or no slop  3 - can be used with case clamps and screws  4 - rises above the top of the movement and eliminates the original el cheapo thin, flexy calendar spacer. The dial can be held in place by 'dial dots' during assembly and the case clamps/screws will hold it all firmly in place.

Where to find such a spacer? The CNC made 'Stilty Spacer' was the best but Stilty has gone south (or north). This leaves other custom made spacers and Yuki has them but they are pricey. For a first class project there are few $hortcut$ though.

Here are the dimensions of a rolex 16220, 1016, 5512/13 spec case to Eta 2836/46 Stilty Spacer:  OD = 28.5mm with a step down to 27.45mm about half way down the outside edge on the dial side.  ID =  25.6mm with a step out to 26.0mm on the dial side about half way down the inside wall. Thick = 2.2mm.  A spacer like this will allow an Eta 2846 with no date works or spacer to be mounted in a 5512/13 or 1016 spec case with the correct dial. Remember that MBK cases are basically rolex 1680 spec inside but most will have 5513 size 26.0mm dial openings no matter what reference number so spacers etc will be different sizes.

The Stilty Spacer specs above are from the spacer I used in a '1016' project with a genuine 16220 case, Eta 2846, and genuine spec dial with feet removed. No flimsy oem Eta calendar spacer was used.  The 16220 case inside dimensions are about the same as the inside of a genuine rolex 5512/13.

Before I put the Eta 2846 in the 16220 case in 2008, I put a rolex no date 1570 (without any calendar parts or spacer and with low profile no date center wheel/cp, hour wheel etc) in a 16220 with a genuine 1016 dial in 1997 and it all went together with no hassle at all. This was before RWG, Stilty Spacers etc and the watch that the movement came in only cost $450 back then...a rolex 1505 opd with tt bracelet.

Stilty Spacer   https://rwg.cc/topic/116411-yuki-eta-2824-adaptor           https://rwg.cc/topic/74384-noobmarniner-movement#comment-453732

Yuki spacer info   https://yukiwatch.ecwid.com/#!/ETA-adaptor-set/c/6702300

[Nightwatch]

Several awesome tips for now and for future reference. Picture of how to proceed is forming, thanks:)

[Mike_G]

I found some additional info. Bergeon makes feet that can be glued or epoxied onto the dial. Looks like a regular foot but with a large diameter base. 

There is also some info on soldering feet on using a pencil torch. If there is interest (and if allowed to do so) I can post a link. The gist of is to drill small holes / depressions in the back of the dial where the feet will go. Then using a third hand position the wire in the depression. Then place some solder paste and chips of solder around the base. Finally use the pencil torch to melt the solder. 

One final idea was to take a 2824 dial and cut out the center leaving an outer ring to be epoxied to the back of the dial. I don't have a good tool for this (dremel maybe?)

I have some dial dots already and a pencil torch in route. I think I'll practice these and see which works best for me. I've nervous about this as I have already ruined soe parts with rookie mistakes / lack of skill and practice. 

[Nanuq]

There's a very cool tutorial on Homageforum about doing this with an eraser and a toothpick. 

http://www.homageforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1419

[BooneShine]

There's a very cool tutorial on Homageforum about doing this with an eraser and a toothpick. 

[url=http://www.homageforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1419]http://www.homageforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1419[/url]

I just read that post. Pretty rad! Think I may try that on my next build.

Anyone try putting new dial feet into the movement foot holes and then gluing the dial to the feet? Might work if you're really careful and then you don't have to worry about transcribing foot placement.

I just finished my first 1016 project last night. First I tried dial dots, but because the clamps didn't hold the everything together tight enough, the movement would wiggle around behind the dial every time I pulled the crown out. So I took it apart.

On the second go, I used g-s hypo cement to affix the dial spacer to the movement, then again to affix the dial to the spacer. I got new clamps that held everything together better and it all worked out great!

I like the hypo cement because it holds quite strong, but is easy to remove with a blade if you need to.

Here's a pic of my new time keeper:

Yuki dial

Yuki hands

JMB v2 case set

Yuki bracelet

Asian ETA 2824-2

Word.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mendota Explorer]

Very nice piece!

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[ezed1]

3 hours ago, BooneShine said:

I just read that post. Pretty rad! Think I may try that on my next build.

Anyone try putting new dial feet into the movement foot holes and then gluing the dial to the feet? Might work if you're really careful and then you don't have to worry about transcribing foot placement.

I just finished my first 1016 project last night. First I tried dial dots, but because the clamps didn't hold the everything together tight enough, the movement would wiggle around behind the dial every time I pulled the crown out. So I took it apart.

On the second go, I used g-s hypo cement to affix the dial spacer to the movement, then again to affix the dial to the spacer. I got new clamps that held everything together better and it all worked out great!

I like the hypo cement because it holds quite strong, but is easy to remove with a blade if you need to.

Here's a pic of my new time keeper:

Yuki dial

Yuki hands

JMB v2 case set

Yuki bracelet

Asian ETA 2824-2

Word.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've used the hypo on 3 builds so far with success but dreading if ever having to go back and do those builds over on my next build I going the dial feet and Loctite super glue, being impact resistant, I'm getting pretty good at this micro gluing thing lol oiler and a dab should hold the feet on nicely  putting the feet in the movement first then gluing and aligning with a 15 to 30 sec window should work just fine :-) Nice Watch!!

[Mike_G]

10 hours ago, BooneShine said:

I just read that post. Pretty rad! Think I may try that on my next build.

Anyone try putting new dial feet into the movement foot holes and then gluing the dial to the feet? Might work if you're really careful and then you don't have to worry about transcribing foot placement.

I just finished my first 1016 project last night. First I tried dial dots, but because the clamps didn't hold the everything together tight enough, the movement would wiggle around behind the dial every time I pulled the crown out. So I took it apart.

On the second go, I used g-s hypo cement to affix the dial spacer to the movement, then again to affix the dial to the spacer. I got new clamps that held everything together better and it all worked out great!

I like the hypo cement because it holds quite strong, but is easy to remove with a blade if you need to.

Here's a pic of my new time keeper:

Yuki dial

Yuki hands

JMB v2 case set

Yuki bracelet

Asian ETA 2824-2

Word.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very nice! If my 1016 turns out anywhere near that nice I'll be a happy camper. My Yuki dial just arrived. I'm just waiting on some Bergeon dial feet and it'll be time to get to work.

[BooneShine]

Very nice piece!

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Thanks! It's funny how before I started the project I was like "man this is gonna be the ultimate watch... After this I'll never make another one..." Literally the next day I'm obsessively looking at pictures of 34mm Tudor Rangers. Ha!

I've used the hypo on 3 builds so far with success but dreading if ever having to go back and do those builds over on my next build I going the dial feet and Loctite super glue, being impact resistant, I'm getting pretty good at this micro gluing thing lol oiler and a dab should hold the feet on nicely  putting the feet in the movement first then gluing and aligning with a 15 to 30 sec window should work just fine :-) Nice Watch!!

Please do post about your experience with the Loctite super glue on dial feet project. I was afraid to try it myself because I read somewhere that the fumes from super glue can sometimes mess with stuff. How exactly? I have no idea. So I'm super curious to know your findings... If it works out, sounds a lot less messy than two part epoxy and stronger than hypo cement.

I also am not looking forward to opening this watch up to service it in the future. Hopefully I will have gotten better at the "micro gluing" by then and will be able to properly attach feet.

Good call on the oiler... I'll have to try that out as well.

Very nice! If my 1016 turns out anywhere near that nice I'll be a happy camper. My Yuki dial just arrived. I'm just waiting on some Bergeon dial feet and it'll be time to get to work.

Good luck with your project! Let us know which method you end up using and how it works out

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[ezed1]

21 hours ago, BooneShine said:

Thanks! It's funny how before I started the project I was like "man this is gonna be the ultimate watch... After this I'll never make another one..." Literally the next day I'm obsessively looking at pictures of 34mm Tudor Rangers. Ha!

 

Please do post about your experience with the Loctite super glue on dial feet project. I was afraid to try it myself because I read somewhere that the fumes from super glue can sometimes mess with stuff. How exactly? I have no idea. So I'm super curious to know your findings... If it works out, sounds a lot less messy than two part epoxy and stronger than hypo cement.

I also am not looking forward to opening this watch up to service it in the future. Hopefully I will have gotten better at the "micro gluing" by then and will be able to properly attach feet.

Good call on the oiler... I'll have to try that out as well.

 

Good luck with your project! Let us know which method you end up using and how it works out

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

yup I said the same thing, now into build 3 :-) it cost alittle more to build but its your build!! as for the fumes on my last build I soldered some copper wire with the rite diameter to the dial spacer which was a pain!!then glued the spacer to the dial, the spacer had some raised [censored] so I put a drop on each & the last time I opened up that case to set the beat I didn't get a BUZZ LOL, by the way Kello is a pretty good app for that using a iphone & iphone headset with mic

[HaydenM]

Bit late now for you but I used dial dots (or I think mine was more like dial tape) to secure the dial to the movement and honestly it worked fine. It's perfectly in line to my eyes and works fine.

[automatico]

"...I read somewhere that the fumes from super glue can sometimes mess with stuff. How exactly?"

It will raise fingerprints on movements, dials, crystals etc until the glue is dry and the fumes go away. It also dries so fast it sets up before you can get parts placed exactly where you want them. Besides that, the stuff travels like water and can go where it is not wanted in a split second.

You put a little bitty drop on the back of a dial (around the marker foot sticking through the dial) to hold a marker in place and it will go through the hole in the dial and out on the front side in a nanosecond. You put a drop on a stem and it sets up before you get the crown screwed all the way down on the stem. You unknowingly get it on a finger and get stuck to the first thing you touch.  Ask me how I know.  

[alt.watch.obsessive]

For what it's worth, I've found two part epoxies to be the best compromise between strength and slow set time. You have forever to adjust things but they hold almost like superglue once dry (bit stronger than GS). There is a post on here about dial feet with very large bases that I had to order from the UK. They work great, but the base does add a little space in the whole build so you can get in trouble. This also seems to work best without a date. Buy a dead Asian ETA movement cheap and use it to hold the feet while you set the dial on top. Otherwise, epoxy the dial to the spacer and the spacer to the movement or use dial dots. They seem to work surprisingly well as long as the whole thing is held solidly in the case.

[BooneShine]

yup I said the same thing, now into build 3 :-) it cost alittle more to build but its your build!! as for the fumes on my last build I soldered some copper wire with the rite diameter to the dial spacer which was a pain!!then glued the spacer to the dial, the spacer had some raised [censored] so I put a drop on each & the last time I opened up that case to set the beat I didn't get a BUZZ LOL, by the way Kello is a pretty good app for that using a iphone & iphone headset with mic

Bought the Kello app last night on your recommendation and it worked like a charm... Been looking for something simple and cheap to at least get a general idea on whether my watches we running fast/slow. Also, I noticed that the results were different depending on if the watch was facing up or facing down. I'd read about this phenomenon before, but it was awesome to see it happen in real time!

"...I read somewhere that the fumes from super glue can sometimes mess with stuff. How exactly?"

It will raise fingerprints on movements, dials, crystals etc until the glue is dry and the fumes go away. It also dries so fast it sets up before you can get parts placed exactly where you want them. Besides that, the stuff travels like water and can go where it is not wanted in a split second.

You put a little bitty drop on the back of a dial (around the marker foot sticking through the dial) to hold a marker in place and it will go through the hole in the dial and out on the front side in a nanosecond. You put a drop on a stem and it sets up before you get the crown screwed all the way down on the stem. You unknowingly get it on a finger and get stuck to the first thing you touch.  Ask me how I know.  

Wow, I knew superglue was too good to be true... Looks like I'm just gonna have to get better at managing those messy cements and epoxies. I didn't even think about lack of set time let alone the fume problem.

It would suck to spend all that time prepping your dial and end up with it permanently off center, with your fingers glued to it. Then when you finally free yourself from the unsightly beast, the fumes raise your prints to remind you of your mistake. Damn you superglue! Our relationship could have been so promising! Ha.

Thanks for the insight! Glad I didn't have to go through it myself... I may have just thrown in the towel out of frustration. Though I'm learning that this hobby/obsession is all about being okay with making mistakes, learning and growing.

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[lumbee]

Super glue will also cause corrosion on the steel parts inside a watch. The tiny pivots suffer the most and that causes thae watch to stop until the pivot is replaced. It can fog the crystal forever ( the fumes) and if it gets slightly out of place it can freeze pivots in bearings or jewels permanently.

[BooneShine]

For what it's worth, I've found two part epoxies to be the best compromise between strength and slow set time. You have forever to adjust things but they hold almost like superglue once dry (bit stronger than GS). There is a post on here about dial feet with very large bases that I had to order from the UK. They work great, but the base does add a little space in the whole build so you can get in trouble. This also seems to work best without a date. Buy a dead Asian ETA movement cheap and use it to hold the feet while you set the dial on top. Otherwise, epoxy the dial to the spacer and the spacer to the movement or use dial dots. They seem to work surprisingly well as long as the whole thing is held solidly in the case.

I like the idea of having a dedicated dead movement to us as a foot gluing platform.

Do you have a specific brand/type of two part epoxy that you prefer to use? Also, what do you use to apply the epoxy? I'm thinking of grabbing a dedicated oiler as suggested above, but was wondering what some other good options are.

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[alt.watch.obsessive]

I think it is Epoxy 330. I'm sure there is nothing special about that brand. For application you should be able to use anything with a sharp point on it. I use wooden skewers we have on hand from the local Asian market :).

[BooneShine]

I think it is Epoxy 330. I'm sure there is nothing special about that brand. For application you should be able to use anything with a sharp point on it. I use wooden skewers we have on hand from the local Asian market .

Sweet thanks! I bought some. Epoxy 330 that is... Also got a cheap set of oilers as per@ezed1 's suggestion. Now I just have to find a dead ETA 2824 to dedicate as my dial feet gluing station.

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[ezed1]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 1:34 PM, BooneShine said:

Bought the Kello app last night on your recommendation and it worked like a charm... Been looking for something simple and cheap to at least get a general idea on whether my watches we running fast/slow. Also, I noticed that the results were different depending on if the watch was facing up or facing down. I'd read about this phenomenon before, but it was awesome to see it happen in real time!

 

Wow, I knew superglue was too good to be true... Looks like I'm just gonna have to get better at managing those messy cements and epoxies. I didn't even think about lack of set time let alone the fume problem.

It would suck to spend all that time prepping your dial and end up with it permanently off center, with your fingers glued to it. Then when you finally free yourself from the unsightly beast, the fumes raise your prints to remind you of your mistake. Damn you superglue! Our relationship could have been so promising! Ha.

Thanks for the insight! Glad I didn't have to go through it myself... I may have just thrown in the towel out of frustration. Though I'm learning that this hobby/obsession is all about being okay with making mistakes, learning and growing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

definitely a learning curve, it's like you have to mess up to learn, gluing was a pain at first but now I have steps that work really well for me, I dreaded gluing the date wheel overlay and my biggest thing was losing parts :-( but I'm getting better :-) because I tackled a 2671 small ladies movement really small parts which was good practice now the bigger movements 28XX are much easier to work with.

[jakethemouse]

This is a great thread. I've learn so much just reading through everyone's experiences.