Devedander Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Getting inside the J12 Full Ceramic So a while back I got one of the cheap, enamel painted J12s to see how the GF liked it, at the price for a quartz itseemed like it made sense to get a feel for it before purchasing the full ceramic, especially since I don’t think I will find a gen to check out anywhere locally… She liked it a lot and so I have sprung for a full ceramic one. Being as how she will be abusing it at work a lot I decided the prudent thing to do was go for the mid grade model, not stainless coated in ceramic, but also not necessarily the super expensive one either. For just over $200 including a box set this seemed like a good value and being quartz at least I could be assured it would keep good time. Note the box is not shown in much detail as it arrived damaged in a lot of places. So out of the box impressions are the watch is very nice indeed! Despite lacking the last firing step to bring it to the highest level of ceramic shine I can’t say I have any problem with the appearance of this piece at all. The white seems to be decently even over the entirety and with the exception of a tiny brown spot on the case it seems pretty blemish free. The watch is surprisingly heavy for a quartz, obviously due to the weight of ceramic, and I think this is emphasized even more by the white color which makes it look almost like a light plastic. On the wrist it has a great feel (yes I did try it on ) and you can tell it’s a ceramic at first touch. This is the mid grade one so the final firing/polishing step has not been applied to this one (apparently accounts for the price difference) as you can see it's still plenty shiny and for the price I am very satisfied. The bracelet has a fair bit of play in it, looser than most SS bracelets. It doesn’t make it feel bad or anything and still looks just fine on the wrist. The diamonds are laid neatly in good rows and are held in at all four corners so it appears they should be pretty secure. Sadly the diamonds are inlaid deeply enough that no light is getting behind them so the fire is pretty minimal… again not sure how the gen fairs in this area but I am not sure I can think of a way to have mounted them to allow more light around them and maintain a secure hold for something that will take a beating like a watch… That said under some reasonably bright lights (store lighting lets say) the diamonds do shine and sparkle enough to catch the eye. I would assume someone who knows their jewelry would spot it as a cz in no time, but to the average Joe I am sure they will pass as normal mid to low grade diamonds (I doubt anyone will be checking for flaws in watch diamonds). The dial is also done quite well with the numbers being solid and deep (these are actually 3D, not just drawn on the dial and look to be about 1mm tall). The contrast of the deep, rich black of the numbers against all the white/ss is very eye pleasing in a professional and reserved way. What dial printing there is is quite decent with no obvious issues in quality. And the date font faces outwards to match the numbers on this model which I believe is correct. The contrast between the diamonds mounted on the SS bezel to the white ceramic and well defined dial really sets off the watch nicely. It’s got a great balance of understated beauty and bling… it doesn’t stick out like an iced grill but it catches the eye and on closer inspection doesn’t fail to impress! The clasp has the proper spring clasp and functions smoothly. It's got a nice strong spring without being difficult to open, although if you aren’t careful it might pinch the wrist a bit… The caseback has a nice arc to it and is very comfortable;I believe the engravings are appropriate and correct. Sizing the bracelet is quite straight forward. It uses a pin system which is a bit odd looking at first but is very easy to work with. You can see a small hole in the side of the “pin”, simply insert the pin pusher and the other side will pop out a bit. After about a half an inch both sides are easy to remove by hand. The pictures should make it pretty obvious how it works. Getting everything back together is a little nerve wracking as you have to hammer against the ceramic but the fit and finish was good enough that things went back together smoothly. A note the bracelet I would estimate would be tight on a 7 inch wrist… with 2 links out it’s tight (but just fits) my 6.5 wrists. Generally everything is seems great about this watch right out of the box… however a little digging does reveal a few unpleasantries… First off is removing the bracelet. While you are not likely to need to do this, it was a HUGE pain for me when I did… and it comes hand in hand with the other, and much more worrisome, issue… the caseback does not seal with the case. I took the caseback off as I wanted to lube the gasket for a little extra water resistance as the GF wears this to work and washer her hands often) and just to peek inside (yeah I know, real interesting… a quartz movement and a spacer… weee). 8 small screws are all that holds it together (no need for a caseback tool, just a small screwdriver) and once those are out the movement literally falls out of the case… that’s because the caseback and movement hold together around the case, you can see this in the pictures, so as soon as the caseback is loose from the movement it just drops right out the front. Fortunately for me I was working close to my table so no damage, and I can’t really imagine this being an issue under normal conditions, but good to bear in mind. The insides are nothing particularly interesting… ceramic case, movement etc… The gasket in this case is difficult to get to while the caseback is attached to the case and the bracelet prevents the caseback from coming off freely so I removed the bracelet. The springbars are nice and fat and have a solid spring feel to them. I am glad as I wouldn’t want some wussy springbar sending this ceramic case to the floor… getting them out was a snap, just insert springbar tool, push, remove end link repeat. At this point the caseback is still wedged into the case by the little feet where the springbars go into. Note the case itself has recessed areas where the springbar goes in, but they are recessed in semi spheres so as to stay out of the way of the spring bar, I assume they don’t want the brittle ceramic bearing the force of the spring bar and stress from the wrist/watch pushing on it. The springbars go only into the little holes in the feet of the caseback which in turn wedge into the case and hold the caseback on. Getting the caseback off is a bit scary as I had to push it out with my thumbs much like popping a crystal out… I was very worried I would break the case at this point but fortunately no such bad luck. I would always be careful here though, you don’t want to snap the case… After getting it all apart I got the gasket out, lubed it and went to put it all back together… This is where things got ugly. First off, when putting the caseback on I noticed something startling… I could see light between the edge of the caseback and the case!!! It does not fit properly! The case back is simply too narrow and the case thus has a gap as a result! This obviously means it’s VERY easy for water to get in this far. Now fortunately the movement I think is still pretty well sealed in from the back due to how the gasket fits against the caseback, but this is worrisome to me nonetheless as it seems that it’s just asking for water to get into the crown tube… I asked the dealer about this and was informed that reps simply aren’t water resistant and this is just how it’s made… not great news but if that’s how it is I guess that’s how it is… I think this can be fixed by patching the gap with some sort of waterproof stuff from the inside where it won’t be easily seen… any ideas on what to use are welcome. And in case you are wondering, this has nothing to do with installing the caseback the wrong way, no matter which orientation you use the gap exists… Anyhow, caseback back on, next up was to install the bracelet again. This should be pretty easy right? Nope… the little holes in the metal feet of the caseback are at the very edge of the range they can be at and still have the springbars fit… this means you really have to fight to get them to fit in and I was scared the whole time again I was going to break the case. My advice (and I am not taking them out again to test this advice) is to install the bracelet BEFORE putting the caseback back on the case. I think this will make it much easier overall, in the end I spent over half an hour fighting the springbars and finally got one to fit while on the case and one to fit while off the case, then snapped into place… All done resizing and the GF loves it, it's a nice step up from her painted one (I will try to get sa wrist shot but she is asleep now so it would be kind of weird for me to slip in and start taking pictures... then again maybe I could make some money....) Speaking of, sorry for some of the questionable quality pictures... I tried but I need to get some kind of lightbox... either way lots of our dealers have excellent pictures on their sites to check out. Anyhow, hope you enjoyed my writeup and if you have any suggestions on what to patch the case gap up with, please let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Excellent Review,, Thank You.. -MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Thanks for this review. I've just bought the same watch for my girlfriend, so I appreciate the time you put into posting this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Thanks for the replies, I honestly don't see how any girl couldn't love this watch... in fact I am inches from springing for a black one for me accept it's just a LITTLE too girlie.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Excellent review. I had been wondering about the quality on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammalone Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 WONDERFUL review! Hope she enjoys it! Whenever you have a chance, could you post a close up shot of the movement? Would love to have a closer look, Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Excellent reveiew! My daughter rather fancied one of these. Maybe I will get one for her now (after all I am not planning on ripping it apart) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) Good review .. what an exceptional intrest for a lady's watch ... no really! Nice work. Too bad my GF doesn't like the watch. I find it a hell of a looker! Edited January 12, 2007 by Rolexman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 WONDERFUL review! Hope she enjoys it! Whenever you have a chance, could you post a close up shot of the movement? Would love to have a closer look, Thanks! I will consider it but the fiasco I went through opening it up before is not making me really want to do it again... anything in particular you want to see about it? It's just a quartz movement so all you will see is a batter and a capacitor or something... you can see most of what's the see here Thanks for the comments and compliments! I take plenty of value from these forums, hope to add some back when I get the chance... didn't realize how long that chance was gonna take... my hat's off to By Tor and his reviews... those must be days of his life he put into writing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammalone Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 No Way! Don't open it again I just figured there may have been some extra photos of the movement that were not included in the review. The one provided will suffice Thanks again for posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonton2000 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Great detailed review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 very nice, i got the non-diamonds for my wife and my mother and her business partner just ordered this one - its a great watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 @sammalone good stuff... yeah if I open it again I will take more shots, there are lots of pics that didn't make the review (sadly my lighting setup is poor and my hobbie room is effectionately named the "garbage room" for a reason so getting good shots is not easy... @tonton thanks! I appreciate it! @phoband This is indeed a sweet watch, however the diamonds are what makes it for me... I just don't feel the non diamonds ones so much... the funny thing is this still has the rotating bezel even though there is no way the diamonds help you figure out any sort of timekeeping The funny thing is I was in Kohls (or maybe target) and saw some watches that looked very similar... same design but I am pretty sure it was plastic... funny the designer knockoffs you can find out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usil Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Thank you for this very informative and well writen review. Usil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 This is indeed a sweet watch, however the diamonds are what makes it for me... I just don't feel the non diamonds ones so much... the funny thing is this still has the rotating bezel even though there is no way the diamonds help you figure out any sort of timekeeping How tight is the bezel? The bezel on my girlfriend's watch is loose (turns very easily, and can be rocked back and for quite easily). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Wow... Great review! LOTS of info... So much, I had to read twice to fully digest it all A great read, and interesting to see inside the case. Thanks for taking the time to put this together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 How tight is the bezel? The bezel on my girlfriend's watch is loose (turns very easily, and can be rocked back and for quite easily). It seems pretty tight... clicks and holds each click like my sub rep does... I will check it again when I get home but I didn't get the feeling it was loose at all... @Ubi, thanks for the compliment! I like to give back to the community that has given me so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollux1 Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Fantastic review! Can anyone tell me what "tells" there are to differentiate between the genuine j12 auto and a rep? I'm asking because i was given a j12 auto from a friend who found it, he knows i'm into watches , and seeing as it cost him nothing he decided to just give me it lol. Any help is hugely appreciated. ( sorry to jump on another's thread too ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Great review. For waterproofing, what about making a gasket to seal the watch? You can get very thin rubber foam (or even high-china paper, if need be) and cut it to the exact shape of the caseback and insert it between the caseback and the ceramic for a tight seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted January 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Hmmm... the gap is rather sizeable but perhaps foam would be doable... now that I think about it perhaps even some foamy tape... I have some double sided foam tape I will try to make a cheap one out of for a test... considering it seems the movement is safe from water, maybe the tape would suffice to keep the majority out and also provide a decent filter for airflow as per The Zigmeister... Unfortunately this all means taking the caseback off again which probably involves the bracelet... ack.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmena Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Thanks for shearing! I would like to know if it worth the extra money buying the high level model... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 How tight is the bezel? The bezel on my girlfriend's watch is loose (turns very easily, and can be rocked back and for quite easily). I prefer to rock the woman back and forth. I'll get my coat....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted January 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Well as for the high end model I can't say myself, but I can say this one is quite shiny and nice looking... It's important to remember this is only one piece so a small sample, but someone at RWI recently got a high end one... http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14213 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djtimodj Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 i have just bought one of these for my girlfriend! from TT. one thing i have noticed is the case back on your says swiss quarts and the on on tt says automatic ?? even tho it is still the ladys model which they only make in swiss quarts?? Any coments ?? Thanks Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted January 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 I don't know... I too believe the ladies only comes in quartz and auto is only for the larger mens size... perhaps there are different factories or versions of this? Who is TT? Is that TTK or Two Tone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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