New ARF and Noob Daytonas

[swdivad]

Hi all...

 

I've searched through the forum, but can't seem to find any info on this Clone 4130 with fully functional chrono 

 

What's the deal with this current (and super-expensive) rep? 

 

[fabbe79]

There are something 20 pages on RWI. Long story short arf better looking but noob new movement worth the price being a perfect column wheel working chronograph almost 1:1 rolex movement with 70h power reserve. Personally I have one incoming.

 

 

[Sogeha]

The SS version isn’t in a great case, the gold ones are. One of the brothers is currently working on establishing what genuine parts can be fitted to the movement and what is a necessary or desirable upgrade for reliability 

[TickleShoes]

Movement materials are quite a jump over SH3135. Nearly all gen parts do work. Some of the bridges were a bit of a struggle to fit. Gen autowind is a straight swap. Not sure about putting in a gen balance. I really don’t see much that needs upgrading besides Autowind, jumper for minute counter, setting jumper, setting lever.

Only downside is the build QC of the movement. 2 of mine came with rusty autowind parts. One was seized and the rotor didn’t even wind. One click spring was snapped, one setting lever busted, so... yeah.

[DJWoody]

55 minutes ago, TickleShoes said:

Movement materials are quite a jump over SH3135. Nearly all gen parts do work. Some of the bridges were a bit of a struggle to fit. Gen autowind is a straight swap. Not sure about putting in a gen balance. I really don’t see much that needs upgrading besides Autowind, jumper for minute counter, setting jumper, setting lever.

Only downside is the build QC of the movement. 2 of mine came with rusty autowind parts. One was seized and the rotor didn’t even wind. One click spring was snapped, one setting lever busted, so... yeah. 









 

 

 

 

Do you think its worth servicing the movement as soon as one gets it from a TD? 

Edited August 11, 2018 by DJWoody

[TickleShoes]

 
 
 
Do you think its worth servicing the movement as soon as one gets it from a TD? 

At least getting it looked over. All three I’ve done so far had issues. Some easily fixed but without a source for rep parts gen might be the only solution and they’re pricey parts. Usuallly 2x what a 3135 part would be.

Just be careful who you use. The 423 is not for the inexperienced. It’s critical to oil (and not oil!) the correct areas.

[swdivad]

6 hours ago, DJWoody said:

Do you think its worth servicing the movement as soon as one gets it from a TD? 

I just got the AP Diver with Swiss ETA 2846 movement in... Hack mechanism was completely missing and the oil was almost not oil anymore. Luckily my watchmaker is very good and had a hack mechanism in his spare parts.

 

If this is what we get with the 'QC' on a Swiss ETA, we can expect it everywhere... And I don't think it's the dealers' fault... It 'seems' that they might even outsource their so called 'QC', which is is hit or miss most of the time.

[DJWoody]

Thanks Guys, I spoke to one watch maker and he said to only service if there is something wrong with it, so now im confused.

 

 

[Mike on a bike]

AH Woody everybody has their opinion on this now some thinking about where rep movements come from and the questionable QC well they service it as soon as they get it, now others are in the " if it ain't broke don't fix it " camp. Your call................

PS as others have stated this is a tough movement to work only a rep watch smith should be used and a damn good one at that.

[swdivad]

My take on this is to have it looked at... if it's OK, leave it, but if there's something wrong, even just some dirt inside to get it serviced... Where there's smoke, there's fire

[TickleShoes]

9 hours ago, TickleShoes said:

423

4130 ... dunno what happened there and edit post wasn’t available. 

[DJWoody]

Thought thats what you meant!

 

I'll see what state the watch arrives in, and if there are issues will reach out to someone for repair. So I assume because its a 'new' movement there are not many parts for it and people don't have experience in servicing them.

 

[automatico]

"...as others have stated this is a tough movement to work only a rep watch smith should be used and a damn good one at that."

 

Agree.

 

Downside:

Looks good but comes with gremlins:

Very little QC as mentioned above.

No Parts.

Some genuine parts will fit, but they are hard to find and high $$.

A skilled watch mechanic is needed to work on them.

 

Upside:

They cost $10k less.  

 

Factoids:

Reliability before and after service will be better if the chronograph function is not used, same as with any mechanical chronograph.

A seconds at six non chronograph movement with a center sweep hand frozen at 12 is a much better and cheaper alternative for a replica...imho.

 

What if you really need a chronograph?

Get a Seiko with the meca-quartz 6T63 movement.

One example is the Seiko SSB025PC.

 

Frédéric Piguet and Jaeger-LeCoultre made meca-quartz movements in the 1980s/1990s and they were expensive and a pain to work on (No Parts For You!).  IWC used the JLC cal 631 version and Breitling called their souped up Frédéric Piguet cal 1271 the 'Breitling 69' in their Windrider Chronoracer Rattrapante.

Not long ago, Seiko made some watches with meca-quartz movements that are reliable as a pet rock and sell for $200 or less. 

[DJWoody]

So using the chronograph causes stress on the movement and this makes sense.

 

But im guessing as this movement becomes more popular the cost of the parts will decrease (unless you go gen) and that the watchmakers experience will increase.

 

Is sourcing gen parts an issue if this is a 1:1 clone, with the exception of some parts as mentioned above? 

 

 

[automatico]

"So using the chronograph causes stress on the movement and this makes sense."

 

Not stress so much as basically 'pressing your luck' because of the poor construction, tolerances, and QC of many Asian clone chronograph movements.

 

 

"But I'm guessing as this movement becomes more popular the cost of the parts will decrease (unless you go gen) and that the watchmakers experience will increase."

 

The movement clone producers usually do not make parts available and repair guys who work on genuine watches do not like to work on them. 

Q...Why?

A...The answers are stated above and below.  To put it mildly...the movements are problematic.

There are no distribution channels for signed knock-off movement parts, or Asian clone parts in general.  Sea-Gull maybe but I have not seen any except on eBay and they may or may not be Sea-Gull parts as there are 3 or 4 Asian clone makers.

 

 

"Is sourcing gen parts an issue if this is a 1:1 clone, with the exception of some parts as mentioned above?"

 

Some parts may be 1:1 with genuine but not all.  Take the autowind assembly for instance...it may fit but it might not a good idea to put a $500 genuine part in a $600 replica. 

Q...Why?

A...Because then you have an eleven hundred dollar ($1100) replica plus labor with only ONE (1) reliable genuine part.

All imho.

 

If this was a proven chronograph clone movement...Seagull ST19 - Venus 175 clone for example, my answers would be different but the 4130 clone is new and unproven.

I sincerely hope you have no trouble with it.

[TickleShoes]

Any watching maker capable of servicing a genuine 4130 will be capable of servicing this one properly. Gen parts are available but expensive. Hopefully they will sell individual movements at which point spare rep parts will be available.

Any chronograph, but ESPECIALLY modular chronos like the LWO283, should be run periodically to spread the oil and keep it viscous. Never running it because you’re afraid to use it will only cause the oil to dry faster, shortening its service life.