5513 Dials, hit me with the info. please

[RickFlorida]

Hello everyone,

 

I'm thinking of what 5513 dial and hands to get when I finally get a 1520, 1530, or 1570 movement.  ( I don't have a preference because my case is not genuine anyways, I consider my MQ Vietnam based 5513 a kind of custom watch, obviously not genuine or original so only getting a 1520 doesn't mean much to me).

 

I am not expert at all on rolex dials. Do I understand correctly that there are two main types of genuine dials. One, is an variety that came with the watch the first go around, and then "service" dials that are often used to replace them?   Are those the ones that say "Singer" on the back?  Are the common Ebay 5513 dials that say they are "repainted" and have "singer" on them service dials that have been repainted?

 

What is the opinion on MQ Vietnam dials and hands for 5513. Is this the most "bang" for your buck?

 

Thank you.

[kolohekeki]

Singer was a dial producer for Rolex. There were a few others as well such as Beyeler and Lemrich. These dials were found on Rolex watches until more recently when Rolex purchased one of the manufactures and brought everything in-house. Service dials are post-production, and were sometimes made by the original supplier (if prior to establishing the in-house capability), and sometimes by Rolex itself. These service dials were put on during a servicing, and thus are considered by collectors to not have the same value as an original-to-piece dial. They are still genuine, but would never be found on the watch at birth. Many of the "repainted" dials you see are not actually repainted blanks - more likely they have fake Singer stamps. 

 

MQ stuff is very good, but also very, very expensive. Marginal cost of the "correctness" is high compared to some cheaper options like Ruby's or Helenarou, but at the end of the day they are your dollars and the utility measure if your own. 

[RickFlorida]

17 minutes ago, kolohekeki said:

Singer was a dial producer for Rolex. There were a few others as well such as Beyeler and Lemrich. These dials were found on Rolex watches until more recently when Rolex purchased one of the manufactures and brought everything in-house. Service dials are post-production, and were sometimes made by the original supplier (if prior to establishing the in-house capability), and sometimes by Rolex itself. These service dials were put on during a servicing, and thus are considered by collectors to not have the same value as an original-to-piece dial. They are still genuine, but would never be found on the watch at birth. Many of the "repainted" dials you see are not actually repainted blanks - more likely they have fake Singer stamps. 

 

MQ stuff is very good, but also very, very expensive. Marginal cost of the "correctness" is high compared to some cheaper options like Ruby's or Helenarou, but at the end of the day they are your dollars and the utility measure if your own. 

 

Great, thanks for the information.  Ironically, I find the MQ Vietnam cases not very expensive at all for being good replicas.  But I have read that some MQ dials cost 1K.   A complete 5513 replica case is much cheaper than a dial from there so it's kind of weird.   I also thought the Singer labeled 5513 repainted dials on ebay are probably fake.  I like my HR ETA 5513 dial although the lume had to be corrected.  Guess I'll keep thinking of which way I want to go.  Thanks.

[jackflash]

MQ is a PIA to deal with IMHO. I won’t be dealing with him again. HR is a great budget solution for an ETA movement. They will even custom lume a dial to your spec for $20 extra. Just send them a shot of a dial for reference.

However, you do need to matt varnish the dial on arrival, as the application is delicate to say the least (water colour based). Here’s an example.

 

 

[automatico]

"Many of the "repainted" dials you see are not actually repainted blanks - more likely they have fake Singer stamps."

 

Agree. 

Maybe one out of one thousand are genuine blanks.  After handling a lot of genuine dials the 'fake blanks' stand out...poor dial foot soldering, dial feet too big or too small in diameter, too long or too short, dials too thick or too thin, notches at 3 or 12, ratty name stamping on the back etc.  

After all, where are fly by night 'dial refinishers' going to get hundreds of genuine new or used dial blanks?

 

"A complete 5513 replica case is much cheaper than a dial from there so it's kind of weird."

 

Very, very weird imho.

In 2005 'Paul' of Abay fame sold me 10 vintage 5513 and 1680 submariner 'Singer' stamped ETA dials for $10 each delivered.  Not first class quality dials of course but not too bad either so maybe a first class dial will cost $25 or $35 now at the source.  The cost involved in making dials is the pad printer and associated pieces.  A pretty good manual model can be had for $2000 or less and a one man operation can crank out dials faster than he can sell them.

Cases take a LOT more work than dials but my guess is many of the sellers buy them for not much $$ and detail them before sale.

 

In my experience, aftmkt rlx dials are hit or miss no matter who sells them.  I have dials from IG44, Yuki, 'Paul' and a few 'UFOs' that I do not know where they originally came from. 

Yuki dials are Ok (about 20) except for two that had printing that looked like  ''''''''''''''''''''''''  under magnification instead of solid lines.  About 6 on a 10 scale.  All the others are better, about 7 or 8 on a 10 scale.

The 'Paul' dials are about a 6 on a 10 scale.

The dials that came on my MBK watches are about 7 on a 10 scale not counting the rough outer edges where they cut the 1680 dials down to 26.0mm.

IG44 dials are about 8.5 on a 10 scale.  They are the best of what I have.

The 'UFOs' are between 6 and 8 on a 10 scale.  The one that ranks 8 was claimed to be an IG44 dial.

The dial that came on my 2 or 3 year old cartel '5513' is about 6 on a 10 scale and is very close to the 'Paul' dials from 15 years ago...sharp lettering and hour marker dots but the lettering/minute marks are a bit dim and do not stand out like Yuki etc dials.

Have a few low ball steel case/bracelet YM and submariners from 15 or 17 years ago and the dials are about 4 on a 10 scale.  Besides the overall quality being sub par, the lettering is silver instead of white.  They are tough SOBs though, a few from back then are still running (ST16 mvt).  They were between $28 and $35 back then depending on quantity iirc.  A guy sold them out of the back of his car.

[Sogeha]

http://www.5513mattedial.com/About.html

lots of dial variations on 5513

[jackflash]

... another option Rubyswatch.com (you’ll need to email for password access)

[Champagnesky]

There are No good rep 5513 dials available. Get a gen WG dial Instead, they pop up on ebay now and then.

[denimhead]

I Have to agree with Jack, Helenarou(MK) produces a very nice 5513 dial at a very reasonable price.  The dials based on his own gen and he got it right. When you look at a lot of the Ebay 're dials' etc there's always something not quite right, text spacing etc. And also mentioned he will offer you 3 stages of ageing.

 

[kolohekeki]

I'll add that the Helenarou dials can be modded to fit a gen cal 1520 pretty easily. If you purchase a 26mm dial, you just need to cut the dial feet and re-solder in the right position (1mm from edge @ 6:00 and 57 hash). 

[RickFlorida]

10 hours ago, Champagnesky said:

There are No good rep 5513 dials available. Get a gen WG dial Instead, they pop up on ebay now and then.

 

 

I see your strategy.  The WG Dials are harder to replicate.  

 

I appreciate all the information, everyone.  I really appreciate it a lot.  I think I have enough to go on and just need to decided what I really want.   Thanks guys!

Edited August 23, 2019 by RickFlorida