Franken 16200 build

[Zwiebak]

@alligoat Well I will see how it looks in person once it arrives, but judging from the pictures the coronet on it is way too small. I'm building the watch for myself, not to impress anyone, and if the crown is wrong it will be annoying me all the time.

[automatico]

Z... "According to automatico's "Crown info" thread it could either be a 24-600-x crown on a 24-60xx tube or a 24-603-x crown on a 24-53xx tube.  Furthermore it is also possible that the case I ordered has a completely different tube spec than any Rolex."

'goat... "The rafflesdials cases come with a crown- why not just use that crown?"

 

Imho, if the crown looks pretty good, I would follow the 'goat's advice and use it for now.  When the crown or case tube threads go bad...install better parts.  Take note of the case tube and crown types and be on the lookout for a good deal in a used genuine crown meanwhile.  In my experience, aftmkt case tubes from reputable dealers are fine...Clark etc.  You might buy an extra tube so you will have one if you need it later on.

Most of my no lug hole replica DJ type cases came with 5.3mm case tubes and 603 type crowns...not all but most.

[watcher]

[mention=2081]watcher[/mention] According to automatico's "Crown info" thread it could either be a 24-600-x crown on a 24-60xx tube or a 24-603-x crown on a 24-53xx tube. Furthermore it is also possible that the case I ordered has a completely different tube spec than any Rolex.

Sorry I meant 24-603. See how it is upon arrival. I forget what my case came with as it was 4 years ago.


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[Zwiebak]

@automatico @watcher I just checked rafflesdials' website. The 6 mm crowns he is selling separately come with a 5.3 mm tube (2.4 mm inner / 4.0 mm outer thread width according to specs). Therefore I assume that this will also hold true for the case sets he has on offer. I will keep you updated on that.

 

Meanwhile I received an offer I could not refuse for a gen crown (very scuffed up though). Unfortunately the seller could not tell me which tube it was meant for, so fingers crossed it fits.

[Zwiebak]

The movement arrived today 😃

 

[Zwiebak]

Here is the crown. As I said it is pretty scuffed up and dirty, but it turns out to have the correct thread for the raffles tube.

 

1. Do you think it is indeed a gen 24-630-0 crown?

2. Do you have any tips on what to clean / polish the crown with?

 

 

[watcher]

Looks gen to me and looks to be a 603 albeit a bit used. Not sure what you can do other polish it with a multitool/Dremel.


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[Zwiebak]

Today I picked up the movement from the revision and my watchmaker advised me not to remove the daywheel from the movement as it supposedly is holding some wheels in place that might come loose. Can anyone confirm that? Should I glue the 3135 datewheel straight on and live with the fact that it will rub against the daywheel?

 

Should it indeed be safe to remove the daywheel, can someone explain to me how? My watchmaker didn’t want to do it and I‘m afraid of damaging something or having springs fly across the room...

 

PS: The crown turned out to be a 24-600-0 and therefore doesn‘t fit the tube. Thus I will stick with the stock rafflesdials crown for now. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Zwiebak

[automatico]

"Today I picked up the movement from the revision and my watchmaker advised me not to remove the daywheel from the movement as it supposedly is holding some wheels in place that might come loose. Can anyone confirm that? Should I glue the 3135 datewheel straight on and live with the fact that it will rub against the daywheel?"

 

Look at pictures of an Eta 2836 with the day works removed to see what you do not need...the extra Day parts must be removed.  You may need a different repair guy, many can not/will not perform minor modifications.

 

"The crown turned out to be a 24-600-0 and therefore doesn‘t fit the tube. Thus I will stick with the stock rafflesdials crown for now." 

 

You will need to install a regular 6.0 case tube if you use a vintage type 6mm crown.  The catch is when you drill and tap the case for the larger case tube threads, you sometimes cut into the gasket groove.  Probably be better to find a genuine 6mm crown that fits the case tube in your case.

[Zwiebak]

1 hour ago, automatico said:

Look at pictures of an Eta 2836 with the day works removed to see what you do not need...the extra Day parts must be removed.  You may need a different repair guy, many can not/will not perform minor modifications.

 

Sound like the simplest option is to just leave the stuff where it is, no? If I remove the teeth from the gen datewheel and sand it down a bit, it should not rub too much on the day disc. Perhaps I can give it a good polish and apply some silicon grease to reduce the friction?

 

1 hour ago, automatico said:

Probably be better to find a genuine 6mm crown that fits the case tube in your case.

 

That‘s what I will do.

[ceejay]

You can remove the day wheel. It doesn't hold any wheels in place. You remove the cir-clip  that retains it (in the centre of the day wheel) lift the day wheel off. Job done.

 

The 2836-2 uses a 'double jumper' for jumping and securing the day/date wheels when they rotate. it's a one piece spring (ETA part number 2784) it has a plate that secures it so will not fly away or foul anything with the day wheel removed.

 

 

[Zwiebak]

2 minutes ago, ceejay said:

You can remove the day wheel. It doesn't hold any wheels in place. You remove the cir-clip  that retains it (in the centre of the day wheel) lift the day wheel off. Job done.

 

The 2836-2 uses a 'double jumper' for jumping and securing the day/date wheels when they rotate. it's a one piece spring (ETA part number 2784) it has a plate that secures it so will not fly away or foul anything with the day wheel removed.

 

Thanks for your help! Do I need to put the circlip back in place after removing the disc?

[ceejay]

14 minutes ago, Zwiebak said:

 

Thanks for your help! Do I need to put the circlip back in place after removing the disc?

 

No. It's just used for securing the day wheel.

 

What I would suggest is putting a dial washer on after removing the day wheel. This will ensure the day wheel does not ride up on its pinion.

They are simple, curved brass washers like this... http://blog.watchdoctor.biz/2019/11/04/what-is-a-dial-washer/ 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by ceejay

[Zwiebak]

31 minutes ago, ceejay said:

 

No. It's just used for securing the day wheel.

 

What I would suggest is putting a dial washer on after removing the day wheel. This will ensure the day wheel does not ride up on its pinion.

They are simple, curved brass washers like this... http://blog.watchdoctor.biz/2019/11/04/what-is-a-dial-washer/ 

 

 

There is only one seller who has these on eBay and he is based in your home country. This bit of tinfoil would cost me 20 €... is that really necessary? I’ve found this picture of a 2836-2 without a day disc on a German watch forum and I can’t see what this washer is supposed to hold in place. The hour wheel is held in place by this plate, is it not?

 

[ceejay]

You are correct. You don't need one. 

This movement has a plate to secure the hour wheel 👍

[Zwiebak]

1 minute ago, ceejay said:

You are correct. You don't need one. 

This movement has a plate to secure the hour wheel 👍

 

Good news, so I can just take the disc off and I‘m good to go. I wonder why my watchmaker claimed this was not safe. Well he is giving a one year warranty on the revision, so maybe he just didn’t want to risk it.

[ceejay]

No idea. As you can see in your picture, with the day wheel removed there is nothing to fall out, not even the hour wheel!

 

You can see the 'leg' of the double jumper above the 25-25 in your picture. If you wanted to, you could even trim that leg off. I don't think it's going to foul anything though. It sits below the date ring.

[Thevintagecrown01]

Hey it’s me I lost the password of the original account check me on Reddit for all the build Iam doin now Iam building 2 16030 witheet cases and gen dials one buckley and one brown dial 

[beanvatan]

Hey it’s me I lost the password of the original account check me on Reddit for all the build Iam doin now Iam building 2 16030 witheet cases and gen dials one buckley and one brown dial 

Post us some pictures when you have the parts, as we’re all exciting to see your build.


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[Zwiebak]

Update: I have almost all the part together that I need. The last missing piece is the gen dial, which I ordered last week. So far everything went wrong that could go wrong but I'm back on track. First off, as mentioned above, the crown turned out to be a 24-600-0, not a 24-603-0. Furthermore it is not genuine, so that's a couple of bucks down the drain. Then raffles dials send me an unbranded crown. Some other things had defects too, so he send me a second parcel with the correct branded crown. I found a 24-603-0 for 165 € online, but as the rafflesdials worked very smooth a didn't look too bad I decided to not make the build more expensive than it already is and stick with the raffles crown. Maybe I'll upgrade in the future.

 

The watchmaker who serviced the movement seems to have overoiled the ratchet wheels of the ETA 2836-2. Or they were defective from the start, but then he should have replaced them. Either way, the rotor spins a bit when winding the movement in a completely flat position. The watchmaker insists that this is a common ETA problem (which is not entirely false, but you can fix it) and that everything is fine. As this is not a significant problem I will be using the movement as is and have it serviced by a dude I was recommended after a year or so.

 

Next it turned out that the bracelets I bought did not fit the case for whatever reason and the spring bars didn't catch the holes in the lugs. I removed the rings on the inside of the endlinks, which allowed me to attach the spring bars, but now the end links had nothing holding them in place and they were rattling around loosely. Therefore I resoldered the little rings and used curved spring bars, which is a bit of a hassle but solved the problem.

 

This is how I want the final product to look like btw: 1998 no holes smooth bezel 36 mm Rolex Datejust 16200 silver dial

 

Fingers crossed that everything will go according to plan from now on. Next steps include glueing the datewheel to the movement, glueing the dial to the feet, fitting the hands, casing the whole thing and getting it waterproof. 

 

Here are some pictures of the stuff I had delivered so far and the endlink rings I was talking about: https://imgur.com/a/0vr5E0O

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Zwiebak

[Zwiebak]

Today I glued the datewheel onto the movement and the dial onto the dial feet. Exciting day to say the least, but everything went according to plan and it fits perfect.

 

[watcher]

Looking good. Overlay to me is the hardest part!

[Zwiebak]

Definitely! The beauty is fully assembled now 🤩

 

[watcher]

Very nice result! Wear in good health!


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[automatico]

The watch looks great!

 

"Overlay to me is the hardest part!"

 

You  Are  Right  About  That!

 

One example of my dwo hassles (one of many)...

I have been putting off installing a dwo made for a DJ 42 onto a Bulova Precisionist/Accutron II movement to make a gold case DJ 36. 

Q...Why would a regular DJ 36 dial and dwo not work?

A...Because the dial seat and dial opening in the case are too big for a standard 27.9mm DJ 36 dial, had to go with a 30mm OD DJ 42 dial with the date window set to the right a bit more than a 27.9mm DJ 36 dial. 

Note...The DJ 42 dial was made to order with applied Romans on a cream white dial with no outer minute track.  No way to get it with the standard DJ 36 date offset because the dial company uses ready made DJ 42 dial blanks.  No minute track because quite a bit of the outer edge of the dial is covered by the case and this would partially cover the minute track.

 

I have not stuck the DJ 41 dwo to the Atron II movement dw yet because I am considering making a date 'window frame' to apply to the dial so I can use the original A-tron date wheel.  The A-tron dw is offset to the right about .5mm+/- more than the DJ42 dw so if I file the DJ 41 date window out a little to the right and mount the frame, it might work Ok.  Besides that, the A-tron dw is just a hair below a more or less permanent spacer on the A-tron movement and the DJ 41 dwo might be too close to the dial.  At least the numbers turn in the same direction on both of them.

 

The A-tron date number size and type are very close to the rlx numbers so it will pass.  The date window frame will be a hassle to make because it is so small and delicate but it would probably be worth it.  I figure on using a spare dial of some kind with a date window and file the inside out to the same size as the A-tron window, then rough cut it out leaving some extra metal all around it and cement the frame to a piece of the donor dial for support and finish out the frame, then soak it in acetone to remove the cement.  Paint it and stick it on.

Nothin' to it.  Yeah sure, that is why I have been putting it off.  Believe me, I have given some serious thought lately to scrapping the gold case (29 grams 18k = $1220 minus about 10%). 

Btw...ST wants $4500 for a DJ 36 case.  Spend an extra $3300 so a regular dial will work?  Nah.

 

 

"The watchmaker who serviced the movement seems to have overoiled the ratchet wheels of the ETA 2836-2. Or they were defective from the start, but then he should have replaced them. Either way, the rotor spins a bit when winding the movement in a completely flat position. The watchmaker insists that this is a common ETA problem (which is not entirely false, but you can fix it) and that everything is fine. As this is not a significant problem I will be using the movement as is and have it serviced by a dude I was recommended after a year or so."

 

If the reversers are Ok and not worn out, you can clean the reversers in naptha (Ronsonol lighter fluid etc) and let them dry.  Next, you add a small drop of fine watch oil to a few cc of naptha and soak the reversers in it a few minutes, remove them, and let them air dry completely.  Clean the rest of the autowind assembly while you are at it and put it back together taking care to properly oil the jeweled reverser pivots in the plates and the intermediate wheel where it turns on its axle. 

This usually fixes them...usually. 

Eta recommends a high $$ LUBETA v105 lube concoction but you can usually get by with the homemade version...usually.