Oyster case waterproofing question

[jimcon11]

 I recently picked up a 50s Tudor with Oyster case in great condition and naturally my first inclination was to take the movement out and give the case a nice submergence to see how it holds up. Despite having what looks like a new crystal, I immediately noticed a droplet and then growing bead of water forming along the rehaut.. ok we have a problem here. I popped the bezel off (which fits nice and tight, no issue there) and pressed out the crystal from inside. I noticed the top of the case and crystal retaining lip were a little dirty, so I mixed up a baking soda solution and scrubbed for a while.

 

Some of the grime was not coming off, and I looked under a loupe and realized it's not dirt, there's a fair amount of corrosion or pitting on the retaining lip. Pics attached are the best I could get. It doesn't seem like a lot to me, but I'm guessing it's enough to break the tension seal of the crystal. 

 

I have a couple new Tropic 11 crystals coming in the mail just to confirm my crystal isn't bad, but assuming the problem is the pitting, how do I proceed from here? I'm guessing I need to sand and polish but I'm afraid to since the watertight design depends on the retaining ring having exact dimensions. Anyone have an idea of a safe procedure to follow?

 

I can always just avoid water.. but that's no fun, and the rest of the watch is in such great shape that it would be a shame to not use it as intended.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by jimcon11

[Nanuq]

That looks a little better than my 50s Submariner, even so I never get it even remotely near the water anymore. Movement parts are nearly impossible to find now.

[automatico]

I have owned quite a few rolex watches with mild to serious case corrosion and they ended up being used for parts or 'high and dry' wear. Your corrosion is mild but it is in a bad place.

 

Hate to say it but there is not much of a proper fix for this except welding and re-machining.  If you could spin the case in a lathe and cut or sand most of the corrosion away, an oem spec crystal may no longer be a good fit.  You might find an aftmkt crystal that would work after cutting/machining but it is a gamble.  G-S Crystal Co makes dozens of PA type crystals (PA = straight sidewall) and one might fit.  G-S crystal specs are available in the older G-S catalogs.

 

Otoh it being a tudor instead of a high $$ rolex, you might find a similar watch with a bad movement/dial and good case at a reasonable price to use for a replacement.

Post the case reference number and I/we can be on the lookout if it would help.  You never know what might turn up...a watch trader guy called me today with a 1950s gold top rolex 6332 for sale, the next call might be a vintage tudor.

Rolex 6332 is a 34mm watch with a gold top cap and gold bezel and 'bubbleback' type A260 movement.  The movements are not very good (autowind problems) and parts are not easily available.  I call them 'wrist grenades'.  I offered $450.  He laughed.  No sale.

[jimcon11]

7 hours ago, Nanuq said:

That looks a little better than my 50s Submariner, even so I never get it even remotely near the water anymore. Movement parts are nearly impossible to find now.

 

I get that totally. Luckily this is a $500 movement (which I already have a spare of) not a $2500.. to me it's worth the risk if I don't have to worry about being caught in a thunderstorm or my niece pushing me in the pool

 

1 hour ago, automatico said:

I have owned quite a few rolex watches with mild to serious case corrosion and they ended up being used for parts or 'high and dry' wear. Your corrosion is mild but it is in a bad place.

 

Hate to say it but there is not much of a proper fix for this except welding and re-machining.  If you could spin the case in a lathe and cut or sand most of the corrosion away, an oem spec crystal may no longer be a good fit.  You might find an aftmkt crystal that would work after cutting/machining but it is a gamble.  G-S Crystal Co makes dozens of PA type crystals (PA = straight sidewall) and one might fit.  G-S crystal specs are available in the older G-S catalogs.

 

Otoh it being a tudor instead of a high $$ rolex, you might find a similar watch with a bad movement/dial and good case at a reasonable price to use for a replacement.

Post the case reference number and I/we can be on the lookout if it would help.  You never know what might turn up...a watch trader guy called me today with a 1950s gold top rolex 6332 for sale, the next call might be a vintage tudor.

Rolex 6332 is a 34mm watch with a gold top cap and gold bezel and 'bubbleback' type A260 movement.  The movements are not very good (autowind problems) and parts are not easily available.  I call them 'wrist grenades'.  I offered $450.  He laughed.  No sale.

 

Thanks mate, your experience always shines through in your posts. Just today I was wondering  what PA stands for in the GS nomenclature. 

 

The reference is 7909, fairly common, but I have an update on the situation. I found another crystal that fits the retaining lip in my spare parts drawer, although it's too wide for the bezel, but just for fun I popped in on the case and dunked it without the bezel and didn't get any leaks after an hour of bottom time in the sink. So I think the issue is in-fact with the original crystal I have, not the corrosion. Hopefully when my new Tropic 11 gets here I'll be good to go, I already replaced the caseback and crown gaskets.

 

Now I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to prevent the corrosion from getting worse.. is there some way to seal it? I've used POR15 anti-rust paint on cars but again the issue of preserving the specs of the watertight design makes me skeptical as to whether this would work. Maybe just settle for rinsing it off if I sweat too much or happen into the ocean?

 

Here's the watch by the way, strap suggestions also welcome (waterproof) 

Edited July 1, 2020 by jimcon11

[automatico]

"The reference is 7909."

 

If one turns up at a bargain price I will let you know.  I do not have any tudor parts other than a fair 25.5mm dial for a 1980s ETA 28xx submariner of some sort and an old manual wind case. 

Looking back...I bought a 7909 in January 1991 for $110USD and traded it away a few months later.  Back then there were quite a few floating around trading tables at similar prices.

 

"Now I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to prevent the corrosion from getting worse."

 

Maybe use 'Naval Jelly' or something similar to remove the corrosion and hope for the best.  Not very encouraging but it is a low cost measure that might help. 

[oldtools]

Would using silicone grease at the base of the lip provide a barrier against moisture and oxygen getting in and creating more corrosion?

[alligoat]

I've used a product- Rust Cure. It's an acid. www.rust-cure.com

after that maybe you could use some J-B weld to fill the holes, and file it back to round and then like oldtools says, put some silicone grease on there.

beats the heck out of laser welding which would be your other alternative with some turning on a lathe afterwards

[Nanuq]

If you use grease at the base of the crystal be EXCEEDINGLY careful not to let it migrate up the walls of the rehaut.  It will sneak into your dial face quicker than a punk at a Sex Pistols concert.

[automatico]

"If you use grease at the base of the crystal be EXCEEDINGLY careful not to let it migrate up the walls of the rehaut.  It will sneak into your dial face quicker than a punk at a Sex Pistols concert."

 

Wise, wise words.      Heed the warning.

 

Grease loves watch dials, especially matte finish dials.  Grease can crawl and petroleum base grease is the worst of all.    

Silicon grease is not quite as bad but it can crawl.   

I've had good luck with Krytox GPL 205 but you did not hear it from me if something goes wrong.  

 

Note...when using Krytox GPL 205 use only the part with a texture similar to toothpaste.  The liquid that sometimes separates from the mix is not good to use by itself.  Shake the pizz out of it before use to mix it up. 

Krytox GPL 205 specs:

• Temp Range: -36C thru 204C  (-33F to 400F)  Viscosity 18cSt/100C, 160cSt/40C;  Stable in a wide variety of operating conditions/environments.   
• Nonflammable: Krytox Grease contains only carbon, oxygen & fluorine, (no hydrogen or silicone);  Will not burn or support combustion;  Passes impact standards with LOX, Nitrogen Tetroxide, Nitric Acid.
• Chemically Inert:  Resistant to oxygen and inert to most all chemicals;  Inert nature allows Krytox Grease to outlast/outperform hydrocarbon products;  Chemically insoluble in nearly all solvents.
• At operating temps and pressures Krytox Grease is highly resistant to attack by gaseous and liquid oxygen;  The preferred choice in oxygen; use and manufacturing industry.
• Exposure to significant radiation causes only minor DE polymerization (8% decrease of viscosity) and no formation of solids or sludge or change in appearance.

Fomblin high vacuum grease is what RWC uses on gaskets but it is pricey.

 

[horologist]

On 7/1/2020 at 4:26 AM, jimcon11 said:

 Anyone have an idea of a safe procedure to follow?

 

The above responses are great advice!   I have been obsessed with this issue for over 30  years since I first discovered that stainless steel is just steel which can rust but with less aesthetic impacts! 
 

I would suggest that you give your disassembled case parts a good wash firstly with warm & detergent and then rinse with demineralised water!  Once this is done I would passivate them in a 5% citric acid aqueous solution (which you can make yourself) for about 10 minutes.,  I would again rinse under clean demineralised water and dry out with isopropyl alcohol!  Another option is to put the parts in an electric oven ( not gas) at 100 deg Celsius for a further 10 minutes!  Let them cool!  
 

Once this is done I would lacquer the affected areas with protectaclear or Enduroshield ( not sure if available in your part of the world). The lacquer used to coat brass instruments may also work but I cannot insist but I believe it is the same principle!  This may help assist the further progression of pitting and corrosion!  Once pitting or corrosion starts in stainless steel, it is almost impossible to stop unless you can eliminate one of the major oxidants - water!  I have used this on both my genuine and replica models especially around the case back gasket seat and where the case back meets  the mid case, including between the lugs where the bracelet traps a lot of filth!   These areas are never exposed to any other contact such as your skin and will remain intact once applied!  I have had great success !  Metal pastes and other fillers not work here as there is not enough grip to sit in and will fall off because your pitting isn’t that bad!  .You can then use silicone seal and other measures to make it as water resistant as possible!  Good luck!

[jimcon11]

Awesome advice as usual from you guys, thanks so much 

 

New crystal should be here tomorrow so we'll see how it goes. I'll clean and de-rust in the acidic solution now and then probably try a sealant in the future after I've done a bit more research.

 

Strange question incoming, but are there any janky DIY ways to pressure test without buying one of those expensive chambers? Admittedly the peace of mind of "it sat at the bottom of the sink for a while and didn't leak" is not spectacular.

 

I find the whole subject of waterproofing watches so fascinating.

[automatico]

"Strange question incoming, but are there any janky DIY ways to pressure test without buying one of those expensive chambers?"

 

You can buy a fake bergeon WP tester for $114 on eBay.  This is probably cheaper than a drowned dial and movement.

Example...eBay item number  224061751482

[Nanuq]

I made a pressure tester from a Nalgene water bottle. Cut the air valve from an inner tube and glue it into the lid. Mine takes 90psi from my compressor before it deforms and leaks, and it works great. That’s not a lot of “depth”, something like 6 atmospheres and 200 feet.

[jimcon11]

3 hours ago, automatico said:

"Strange question incoming, but are there any janky DIY ways to pressure test without buying one of those expensive chambers?"

 

You can buy a fake bergeon WP tester for $114 on eBay.  This is probably cheaper than a drowned dial and movement.

Example...eBay item number  224061751482

 

$114... I'm Macgyver over here, I only work with the tools I have around the house. 

 

That said, I just cracked the sidewall of both new GS crystals I received . First one cracked the second I tried pressing the bezel on. I thought "better be careful with the second one" and spent some time sanding and polishing the edge to reduce the diameter a little. Pressed on the bezel a lot more gently.. still wouldn't snap on.. gave it a bit more force.. heard tiny pinprick sounds, and sure enough it's cracked too. I'm pretty annoyed, they're supposed to be Tropic 11 replacements and that's definitely the type for this watch, I can't believe how weak they were.

 

Now I guess I can spend some time reshaping the Sub crystal I have that weirdly fits this case, since another replacement crystal is a week away. Not going with GS for the next ones.

 

 

1 hour ago, Nanuq said:

I made a pressure tester from a Nalgene water bottle. Cut the air valve from an inner tube and glue it into the lid. Mine takes 90psi from my compressor before it deforms and leaks, and it works great. That’s not a lot of “depth”, something like 6 atmospheres and 200 feet.

 

I like the sound of this. So in this setup you put the watch in 90psi compressed air chamber and then take it out and dunk it in water to see if bubbles come out anywhere?

Edited July 3, 2020 by jimcon11

[Nanuq]

I tape it through a springbar to the inside of the bottle and fill bottle 1/2 full. Pump it up to 90psi, wait a bit, then tip Nalgene onto its side submerging the watch as I release the pressure. Single bubble is okay, stream of bubbles is bad.

 

[jimcon11]

Very cool,  I'll have to make one of these.

 

Settling for a boring, flat, decyclopsed glass for now..

[JSebWC]

@jimcon11   That is a sharp looking tudor  I have been getting into the early tudor and rolex 34mms lately

 

I am on the hunt for a nice 7904 or 7909   

 

 

Yuki sells a domed crystal that may fit this case.  

Model no: No.44006/C 294
Model fit: Tudor Oyster Prince 74000 wiithout date magnifier or Tudor Ranger 9050
Material: Acrylic
Outer Diameter: 29.40mm
Inner Diameter: 27.80mm
Height: 3.50mm

 

https://yukiwatch.ecwid.com/AF-Switzerland-vintage-crystal-294-p126152883

 

 

This is a Silix 15000 case set that I used for this build but it fits the mid case well .  also fits the Raffles 34mm cases however the ID of the bezel does need to be increased on those.

 

 

[jimcon11]

 @JSebWCdefinitely get one. Most of the really interesting gilt and waffle dial 34mms seemed to have already gotten the dealer hype treatment but I see plainer ones in need of care selling for peanuts when they come up. 

 

Thanks for the info re. cases and crystals.. I did not know a rep 34mm case even exists, that may come in handy at some point.

 

And nice looking big rose