Any love for this Early Subs Insert and 24-600 Crown?

[Athaya]

Hello guys,

 

Plan to make some new parts for Early subs.

1. No hash silver triangle Thin Font insert for 6204, 6205, 6536, 6538, etc.

2. No hash red triangle Thick Font Insert 6204, 6205, 6536, 6538, etc.

3. 24-600 Dash crown

4. 24-600 Brevet crown

 

Any suggestion ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[automatico]

I do not know how much demand there would be for the inserts but a high quality red triangle insert would probably sell pretty well because not many high quality inserts are available.

Brevet crowns would probably sell pretty good too for older models that came with them originally because there are not many genuine examples left.

Dash crowns would be good because they were used for 25+ years and new genuine crowns are now going for $100+ USD and used examples are usually worn out.  They would also be better on genuine watches than a worn out original if they were WR to 30 meters or more.

 

The crowns need to have good springs in them so they will retain enough tension to click the movement between setting and winding position.  I had some new TC crowns a few years ago and the springs quickly became too weak to push the stem back into winding position and the hands would turn when screwing the crown down.

 

Iirc most of the older genuine crowns had a stainless steel cap crimped over a nickel silver base.  The nickel silver base part might be expensive to make today but I have used quite a few replica crowns with stainless caps crimped over a brass base and they seem to hold up very well.  A solid one piece steel crown is another option similar to the later rolex monobloc design but it would not be accurate to the original design.

 

Good luck!

[jimcon11]

3 hours ago, Athaya said:

 

Hello guys,

 

Plan to make some new parts for Early subs.

1. No hash silver triangle Thin Font insert for 6204, 6205, 6536, 6538, etc.

2. No hash red triangle Thick Font Insert 6204, 6205, 6536, 6538, etc.

3. 24-600 Dash crown

4. 24-600 Brevet crown

 

 

These part choices seem very well thought out with regard to the needs of rep builders in the current environment; I think they would all be great sellers.  

 

I am especially looking forward to the early thin font with thin silver triangle insert and 6mm brevit crown. If these two parts became available it would spur me to build a 1:1 7923, which has not been possible before. 

 

For the thin font insert, you just need to avoid the inaccuracies of the Phong version. The triangle should be the right shape and there should not be a hole drilled through for the lume dot, it should be an indent punched in.

 

I really appreciate your work.

 

 

1 hour ago, automatico said:

Iirc most of the older genuine crowns had a stainless steel cap crimped over a nickel silver base.  The nickel silver base part might be expensive to make today but I have used quite a few replica crowns with stainless caps crimped over a brass base and they seem to hold up very well.  A solid one piece steel crown is another option similar to the later rolex monobloc design but it would not be accurate to the original design.

 

I have ordered a couple of Athaya's 8mm sub crowns, and while they are fantastic, this is the only minor inaccuracy, that you don't see the tiny grooves on the inside edge from the SS crimping. But looking at my gen 24-600 Brevit crown here, I don't see the grooves the same way, so maybe the authentic two part design is of less importance on these (I'm assuming it's harder to produce).

Edited July 7, 2020 by jimcon11

[Sogeha]

I’m interested in purchasing these parts, but would really love to see early case options as well, especially 6200

[Nanuq]

I'm in for a thin font 6536 insert, no red triangle.  I've had to struggle along with a gen MkII Fat Fonts insert all these years ... how I suffer.   

 

IMHO the red triangle would scream "I'm a fake".  The red is never faded enough, the pip is still too intact, and the recent immaculate examples have gone for $4,000 plus.

 

It's easy to inscribe "fold marks" on the case side bevel of a smooth monobloc crown.  Study what they're supposed to look like, and go to town with a diamond tool.

 

[Athaya]

I do not know how much demand there would be for the inserts but a high quality red triangle insert would probably sell pretty well because not many high quality inserts are available.
Brevet crowns would probably sell pretty good too for older models that came with them originally because there are not many genuine examples left.
Dash crowns would be good because they were used for 25+ years and new genuine crowns are now going for $100+ USD and used examples are usually worn out.  They would also be better on genuine watches than a worn out original if they were WR to 30 meters or more.
 
The crowns need to have good springs in them so they will retain enough tension to click the movement between setting and winding position.  I had some new TC crowns a few years ago and the springs quickly became too weak to push the stem back into winding position and the hands would turn when screwing the crown down.
 
Iirc most of the older genuine crowns had a stainless steel cap crimped over a nickel silver base.  The nickel silver base part might be expensive to make today but I have used quite a few replica crowns with stainless caps crimped over a brass base and they seem to hold up very well.  A solid one piece steel crown is another option similar to the later rolex monobloc design but it would not be accurate to the original design.
 
Good luck!

Thx for the info. Will make sure it has good internal spring.

For the crimp part, will evaluate if it’s possible to make it. Thx.


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I have ordered a couple of Athaya's 8mm sub crowns, and while they are fantastic, this is the only minor inaccuracy, that you don't see the tiny grooves on the inside edge from the SS crimping. But looking at my gen 24-600 Brevit crown here, I don't see the grooves the same way, so maybe the authentic two part design is of less importance on these (I'm assuming it's harder to produce).

Thank u, well noted on the triangle part. I notice it’s not drilled through.

And what you guy think about the size, i plan to make it on gen specs, which is OD 36.55 ID 30.3.

How about silix/cartel case? Are they have similar insert size ?


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[Athaya]

I’m interested in purchasing these parts, but would really love to see early case options as well, especially 6200

I'm in for a thin font 6536 insert, no red triangle.  I've had to struggle along with a gen MkII Fat Fonts insert all these years ... how I suffer.   
 
IMHO the red triangle would scream "I'm a fake".  The red is never faded enough, the pip is still too intact, and the recent immaculate examples have gone for $4,000 plus.
 
It's easy to inscribe "fold marks" on the case side bevel of a smooth monobloc crown.  Study what they're supposed to look like, and go to town with a diamond tool.
 

Noted guys. Thank u


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[jimcon11]

2 hours ago, Nanuq said:

IMHO the red triangle would scream "I'm a fake".  The red is never faded enough, the pip is still too intact, and the recent immaculate examples have gone for $4,000 plus.

 

Agreed, the no-hash red triangle is exceedingly rare.. I believe it was transitional for a short run of watches. It would be under very close scrutiny. I don't love how it looks personally.

 

3 hours ago, Sogeha said:

I’m interested in purchasing these parts, but would really love to see early case options as well, especially 6200

I second this! Would be amazing although a huge endeavor.

 

51 minutes ago, Athaya said:

 

And what you guy think about the size, i plan to make it on gen specs, which is OD 36.55 ID 30.3.

How about silix/cartel case? Are they have similar insert size ?
 

 

 

Gen specs are always best IMO. Silex case has a bigger insert size, approx 37.5 OD, I can't give you a precise dimension but someone here can. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by jimcon11

[Athaya]

  Gen specs are always best IMO. Silex case has a bigger insert size, approx 37.5 OD, I can't give you a precise dimension but someone here can. 

 

Will dig more info regarding 6200 case as they are quite hard to find as dimension references.

 

But I got a gen 6536/1 that I might able to copy in the future.

 

 

As for silix and cartel case, if anyone can help for the measurement, then it will be great.

 

 

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[oldtools]

I'd like to add to this wish list, even though it has nothing to do with these early subs. Can you make an open 6&9 date wheel overlay? Maybe one withe round 3's and one with flat 3's and have the numbers progress in the direction of an ETA movement?  I think there would be a demand for these.

[Athaya]

I'd like to add to this wish list, even though it has nothing to do with these early subs. Can you make an open 6&9 date wheel overlay? Maybe one withe round 3's and one with flat 3's and have the numbers progress in the direction of an ETA movement?  I think there would be a demand for these.

Making date wheel is a bit challenging. Need to make sure the date position to match the date window on dial which I believe different on each dial model/supplier right ?


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[oldtools]

Someone else will need to confirm, but I think all the gen spec Rolex dials have their date windows at the same distance from the dial center. Some of the non-spec dials have their date window closer to the center of the watch. The demand for a date overlay for a non-spec dial probably isn't that great.

[Athaya]

Someone else will need to confirm, but I think all the gen spec Rolex dials have their date windows at the same distance from the dial center. Some of the non-spec dials have their date window closer to the center of the watch. The demand for a date overlay for a non-spec dial probably isn't that great.

Sent you a pm. Please check.

 

24-530 and 24-600 crown is in production both in dash and brevet models.

 

As for the early insert? Still dig some info about it to finalized the drawing.

 

 

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[automatico]

"24-530 and 24-600 crown is in production both in dash and brevet models."

 

Good news!

I have a few older watches that can use them.

[jimcon11]

On 7/12/2020 at 9:34 PM, Athaya said:

 

 

24-530 and 24-600 crown is in production both in dash and brevet models.

 

As for the early insert? Still dig some info about it to finalized the drawing.

 

 

Awesome! That 5.3mm will permit a Turnograph build 

 

This probably doesn't bear mentioning, but I've always noticed that the early no hash insert has quite a different look compared to later inserts. The numbers are a bit fuzzier, that's obvious. Another thing, it's never faded.. it's either bare aluminum where paint has chipped off, or still jet black. Maybe the biggest difference.. I believe the paint is thicker. There are glossy smooth ones on NOS museum piece watches, but the ones that saw use have a pretty rough looking matte surface now. I believe that the thick paint lends them a texture as they age. Pic attached shows what I mean. It would be cool if the thick coating could be replicated since I've had too many rep inserts scratch right through to the bare aluminum very easily.

 

Anyone actually have one of these? I've kind of obsessed over the details just because I feel they have a really primitive look that lends tons of character to the early subs.

 

[Bart Cordell]

Work appreciated !

I'm in for red triangle Thick Font Insert.

 

[hologramet]

Here are 5517 macros (that are based and can be used for Regular "Mk3" if you alter a tiny little bit here and there).

 

 

 

Red triangles are all Tall5, here are some semi-macros of my Tall5. Note that serifs are not as pronounced as Mk3.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Also... I would advise to try to find an ink that doesn't end up superglossy or turn blue when brushing.

[hologramet]

I’d love to see proper 6mm Brevet and 5,3mm Brevet crown and tubes.,


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