Klink Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 #1 Posts were not edited #2 You are right, this is not about ttk It is about Pugwash.. and the reasons happened before this thread was started. Drama is always more exciting that reality, pw.. Were anyone to actually read previous posts of Pugs and mine concerning the issue of truth in advertising one would find that I have been and still am in complete agreement with Pugwash, and TTK as regards proper descriptions.. and more so later on in the thread when I understood that PW has only the best interest of the forums in his heart. Why did I become upset? It was a reaction to what I saw as a good intentioned chap who was raising a very large hue and cry, and shouting FIRE! FIRE! - yet who flippantly, to my eyes, refused to point to the fire.. If he is correct in the assertions, it makes zero sense to me for him to not name that which he knows.. and to be specific rather than stirring the [censored], and raking the muck.. making a bad smell when it is in his power to be precise, and point directly to the sins he is crying about.. My support of Pugwash began as I realized the while old forum hand likely know all of the little details, and not be at all concerned, perhaps newer members could benefit from his efforts. Oh well, I am still puzzled.. and I still do agree with his basic premise, and I do support his efforts, even if he now refuses to be of any real assistance in this matter.. other than his continual ranting and raving.. Pugwash was not asked to leave, and any insult he felt, imo, was simply the product of his refusal to actually be of help. Life is Good! Klink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 @Klink Off Topic it is speak... To a different Thread... Take one must... TT SP: Threads that deleted were, posted are here in this Forum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Why did I become upset? It was a reaction to what I saw as a good intentioned chap who was raising a very large hue and cry, and shouting FIRE! FIRE! - yet who flippantly, to my eyes, refused to point to the fire.. It's not my place to go round outing dealers: I don't want to become the Inquisition. You have to give the dealers a chance to respond before you build the pyres. Klink. You want examples? It's the top two five-stars on RWI. Everyone knows who the most guilty are, and that's still not the point. Innocent until, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 This is arguably the single most important issue on RWG at the moment and Pugwash was right to raise it. No rules have been broken and no animals were hurt in so doing. Furthermore he had the good grace to seek the opinions of his fellow members in that opening post. He should be applauded not condemned. JTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klink Posted January 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 It's not my place to go round outing dealers: I don't want to become the Inquisition. You have to give the dealers a chance to respond before you build the pyres. Klink. You want examples? It's the top two five-stars on RWI. Everyone knows who the most guilty are, and that's still not the point. Innocent until, etc. "Everyone" knows? Not everyone has you knowledge, Pugwash, and not everyone, especially newer members, know what you do. Curious as to why you chose not to approach the admin at RWI with this, rather than simply posting what "everyone" knows on RWG.. after all, you do have some status as a moderator of your own section on RWI, and discretion is a word at odds with your actions, imo. So, perhaps you did not alert the admin here either? Perhaps it is much more fun for you to have proceeded in the manner that you have demonstrated. Cheers, Klink Life is Good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 moved... Duplicated below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 "Everyone" knows? Not everyone has you knowledge, Pugwash, and not everyone, especially newer members, know what you do. Curious as to why you chose not to approach the admin at RWI with this, rather than simply posting what "everyone" knows on RWG.. after all Which one? The absent one or the other absent one? Several times in the thread over there and over here, examples were posted of exactly what I was talking about. Just because you missed them doesn't mean they weren't there. Besides, I'm not the message. It's not about me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 #1 Posts were not edited #2 You are right, this is not about ttk It is about Pugwash.. and the reasons happened before this thread was started. Drama is always more exciting that reality, pw.. Were anyone to actually read previous posts of Pugs and mine concerning the issue of truth in advertising one would find that I have been and still am in complete agreement with Pugwash, and TTK as regards proper descriptions.. and more so later on in the thread when I understood that PW has only the best interest of the forums in his heart. Why did I become upset? It was a reaction to what I saw as a good intentioned chap who was raising a very large hue and cry, and shouting FIRE! FIRE! - yet who flippantly, to my eyes, refused to point to the fire.. If he is correct in the assertions, it makes zero sense to me for him to not name that which he knows.. and to be specific rather than stirring the [censored], and raking the muck.. making a bad smell when it is in his power to be precise, and point directly to the sins he is crying about.. My support of Pugwash began as I realized the while old forum hand likely know all of the little details, and not be at all concerned, perhaps newer members could benefit from his efforts. Oh well, I am still puzzled.. and I still do agree with his basic premise, and I do support his efforts, even if he now refuses to be of any real assistance in this matter.. other than his continual ranting and raving.. Pugwash was not asked to leave, and any insult he felt, imo, was simply the product of his refusal to actually be of help. Life is Good! Klink Pug doesn't need my defence or anyone elses here for that matter, but I will reiterate, his actions constitute a community service and should be thanked for bringing the issue to the forefront. As for examples, there are countless in that thread. For example, and this is not meant to be an attack on any specific dealer, but you cannot honestly think that description of the B&R ETA 2892 movement is not misleading. Look this is not a personal issue.. the objective as i see it is constuctive.. address the issue, institute labeling standards, and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) #1 Posts were not editedNot quite how I see it Phil......I see a lot of your posts which were edited....! #2 You are right, this is not about ttk It is about Pugwash.. and the reasons happened before this thread was started. You're right....it's not about me.....it's not about Pugwash or you either......it's about dealers who lie to their customers about what they will get for their hard earned....! Drama is always more exciting that reality, pw..ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz Were anyone to actually read previous posts of Pugs and mine concerning the issue of truth in advertising one would find that I have been and still am in complete agreement with Pugwash, and TTK as regards proper descriptions.. and more so later on in the thread when I understood that PW has only the best interest of the forums in his heart. Pugwash has been and is a very significant contributor and it's not in question that you also support the drive for accurate representation....what is in question is the remarks that you made towards PW in regard to him acting as a policing agent in regards to dealers who lie.......it's not his responsibility to police dealers.....that's the job of Admin and Moderators.....a job that you should be doing.....whilst maintaining the proper attitude towards your forum members and not denigrating them in the process. Why did I become upset? It was a reaction to what I saw as a good intentioned chap who was raising a very large hue and cry, and shouting FIRE! FIRE! - yet who flippantly, to my eyes, refused to point to the fire.. If he is correct in the assertions, it makes zero sense to me for him to not name that which he knows.. and to be specific rather than stirring the [censored], and raking the muck.. making a bad smell when it is in his power to be precise, and point directly to the sins he is crying about..I don't know what school you went to Klink........perhaps Sunday school or dinner school.....but comprehension certainly wasn't on the syllabus.....I think you wil find that in Pugwash's original post.....he SPECIFICALLY named the source of the fire.......vis a vis..PUGWASH'S STATEMENT IN HIS ORIGINAL POST.....I'd hate to have to ask every time I bought a watch if what they advertised was truthful or mere advertising, so please try to convince your friendly dealers (It's mostly Josh and Trusty, the most prolific sellers here, that use these lies with abandon) to stop bullshitting us. Using words like Ultimate or Best Ever is understandable, it's the usual hyperbole required to show your newer model is better than the last, but perfect and 1:1 mean something absolute. As for specific instances of misleading information.....there are numerous that members can see for themselves...allied to the examples posted by other members. My support of Pugwash began as I realized the while old forum hand likely know all of the little details, and not be at all concerned, perhaps newer members could benefit from his efforts.Perhaps newer members could benefit more from an Admin or Mod who demonstrated more concern for them ....than for shamelessly promoting and IGNORING two 5 STAR dealers who have and continue to deliberately lie to their existing and prospective customers.......it's YOUR job to MODERATE in the best interests of the forum......instead of accusing significant contributing members of "whinging" Oh well, I am still puzzled.. and I still do agree with his basic premise, and I do support his efforts, even if he now refuses to be of any real assistance in this matter.. other than his continual ranting and raving.. Once again....I see no evidence of PW ranting and raving......he raised a legitimate concern.....specified what his concerns were ...and named the parties concerned......along with a plea to ALL dealers to desist from the practice of misleading forum members......if you think that's ranting and raving.....then I'd question your ability to read Janet and John.....! Pugwash was not asked to leave, and any insult he felt, imo, was simply the product of his refusal to actually be of help.He wasn't asked to leave...but he was a guest in your house and you abused him in the presence of all........whilst he may have appreciated your request to act as the forum policeman regarding dealers........he politely declined.....but you took it further and started to ridicule him........that's inexcusable.......and you owe him a huge apology.....instead of fighting your corner......whether there's bad blood between you or not.......you're a Moderator and should stand apart from the example of behaviour that you've exhibited so far..! As for this absolutley ridiculous statement on your part....! Curious as to why you chose not to approach the admin at RWI with this, rather than simply posting what "everyone" knows on RWG.. after all, Tell me exactly .....what would RWI Admin have done about it.......no....tell me.....what have they done about it to date.......wait...I'll tell you......NOTHING. Incidentally.....I do not need Pugwash to fight my battles or present any agenda that I may have......hidden or otherwise......I'm perfectly capable of doing that on my own......I have always advocated openess in terms of the presentation of items for sale......from accurate descriptions to prices in plain view.....this situation is no different........customers were lied to.......and the fact that the 2x 5 STAR dealers have not responded to the concerns of the fora members......speaks volumes. Edited January 28, 2007 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Klink, quite accidentaly as i`m not visiting rwi that much i saw the threads and your posts in it (before they where removed, why?). Although i didn`t understand everything it was quite obvious you where ridiculing pugs. In the thread following i think you where abusing and insulting. You are asking for examples but they where plenty given. You keep stating that it was only the differene between venus and lemania, and was completly missing the point in my eyes. It`s quite obvious for what ever reason that there is no love lost between the two of you. Just don`t fight it out on an open forum. retep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Klink, you need to come clean and apologize. The average member here may not "get" what your actual agenda was, but ALL of the involved parties do. Your actions were self motivated, and you had no right to call Pug out like that. It is not his job to police or promote any dealer, unless you are about to send him a nice bag of cash every month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWR Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Wasn't it Klink who used to send out the "official" RWG welcome PM to new members which (under a very thin veil of describing all of the dealers on the board) was written so as to drive people to certain dealers (mostly josh, if i remember correctly)? I don't remember if this was on old RWG or RWG2... but I certainly remember a firefight about it... If so, isn't this just more of the same... it would seems obvious that someone has allegiances or loyalties (for whatever reason) to certain dealers, and is acting in a fashion to protect them... To editorialize: i thought that the addition of the '5 star dealers' thing at RWI was a bit... contrary to the idea of an 'impartial' discussion forum -- frankly 75% of the dealers here can get the same things, for the same prices as each other... how is shilling for certain dealers and ignoring their misrepresentations of products any better than what happens at replicacenter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cucumber_Jones Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 FWIW - The 5 Star dealer idea was Tim's and RWI is HIS board. Please do not bring the admin into this one. Also, Neil, please understand that this is a battle (or debate) between Pug and Klink - Do not bring me or the other admin into it. Non of us are involved with this developing story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Klink has a new favorite. I don't think he would shed a tear if Josh and Andrew took went down. Personally I don't give a [censored] what he does, it just pisses me off when he bullies other members into doing his dirty work. Pugwash and I believe that all dealers deserve the chance to clean up any inaccurate descriptions. Trashing them publicly serves no useful purpose. It's not just the 2 mentioned dealers that have "White Lies" in their postings. " From one other dealer at RWI... TAG Carrera SPECIAL SALE PRICE! XXXX can play TAG!! All like every dealer have... and best pricing of all! Just check River's section, he has it for about $30 cheaper. These are the kinds of things that we are talking about. In this case the quote was accurate when made, but within days River had bested the price. The dealer was made aware that this was no longer an accurate statement, yet the listing remains unchanged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAHLER Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Pugwash was not asked to leave, and any insult he felt, imo, was simply the product of his refusal to actually be of help. Life is Good! Klink nice to know that we can feel any way we wish to about anything, that we can have any opinions that we like as well.. in being convinced that "we" are right, automatically all others are "wrong" - unless we judge them to be entitled to their own opinion even if contrary to ours.. : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAHLER Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Pugwash and I believe that all dealers deserve the chance to clean up any inaccurate descriptions. Trashing them publicly serves no useful purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Besides, when did I become the story? Look up ad hominem one day ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonskeder Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 The last rant by Klink that I remember was aimed at The Zigmeister. Been a long time but this all has the same feel and smell. All this is vintage Klink. This is how it looks. Klink shoots his mouth off--post is deleted by him or one of the mods. It must be bloody hard to deal with him. Here he is a Mod and he has to be moderated by the other Mods. I know this to be true as I have PMed the mods at the darkside to question Klinks ethics and why they put up with all the BS that he (Klink) throws out. They respond that they have had a talk with klink and it wont happen again. Well he still runs riot with self will. As a mod for a rep web site (darkside) I think he is a model of what not to do. The Darkside is less because of him. Oh well none of this matters in the long or short haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 They respond that they have had a talk with klink and it wont happen again. Yup, I've had this four times now ... This is why I've given up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonskeder Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Yup, I've had this four times now ... This is why I've given up. Pug: I think that Im the one who gave up. When you first started the thread on dealer lies I was quite jaded on the subject. Looking back on it and using hindsight, you were right to lead the charge. Still dont think anything of long term value will come out of it but we do need young turks like yourself to take on these issues. I respect your efforts in all this. I learned a long time ago that when it comes to money (there is truth in the old saying that it is the root of all evil) change is hard to come by. But the good news is you might have been strong enough to challange the dealers to a different level of communication. I hope so. As for Klink he is a non event. The "life is good" Klink is like a fart in a elevator. We all are starting to become aware that he stinks most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 I learned a long time ago that when it comes to money (there is truth in the old saying that it is the root of all evil) change is hard to come by. The saying is "The love of money is the root of all evil", not money itself. I do believe that change for the better will happen and it's not because I posted, it's because everyone replied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWR Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 FWIW - The 5 Star dealer idea was Tim's and RWI is HIS board. Please do not bring the admin into this one. I apologize for muddling my parties on that one. I really don't read RWI much and thought that Klink's interests might be commingled. Really sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrington Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 The last rant by Klink that I remember was aimed at The Zigmeister. Been a long time but this all has the same feel and smell. All this is vintage Klink. This is how it looks. Klink shoots his mouth off--post is deleted by him or one of the mods. It must be bloody hard to deal with him. Here he is a Mod and he has to be moderated by the other Mods. I know this to be true as I have PMed the mods at the darkside to question Klinks ethics and why they put up with all the BS that he (Klink) throws out. They respond that they have had a talk with klink and it wont happen again. Well he still runs riot with self will. As a mod for a rep web site (darkside) I think he is a model of what not to do. The Darkside is less because of him. Oh well none of this matters in the long or short haul. I second that. He banned me on RWI for legitimately selling a Navitimer, offering the buyer a choice of some spare dials I had. He thought I was a dealer!!!!For that he had to be bailed out by some of the more moderate MOD's. He seems to have a habit of jumping in with both feet before checking the facts. Just glad he has no involvement over here on RWG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luisik Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 I second that. He banned me on RWI for legitimately selling a Navitimer, offering the buyer a choice of some spare dials I had. He thought I was a dealer!!!!For that he had to be bailed out by some of the more moderate MOD's. He seems to have a habit of jumping in with both feet before checking the facts. Just glad he has no involvement over here on RWG. But... honestly... anybody takes Klink seriously in any forum ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 But... honestly... anybody takes Klink seriously in any forum ? Someone took him seriously enough to make him a moderator and you have to take moderators seriously otherwise the forum falls apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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